Conventional wisdom from nearly every part of the world tells us that there is no teacher like experience. Most of us have gone on to qoute this very phrase and have used it rather indiscriminately. We exist in a society that looks at people with experience in great awe rightly and sometimes wrongly, depending on how you see things.

This is a typical statement you would hear, "I have great respect for Paula she has really lived life through experience she has been dumped and mistreated by many men, she has been through life of heavy drinking, and drug use I really value what she has to say".

Now this would be a true statement if Paula really did come out of what she went through as a wiser woman but the next question one would ask would be how did she endup there in the 1st place? Is making unwise choices really the best way to learn wisdom ?

In simple terms i could say, To learn about the experience of jumping off a building one needs not undergo the process of jumping off a building, one could simply asess the situation before going through it.

In all my hummility I have come to the following conclusion, experience can only be the best teacher for certain students and for certain lessons. Some students undergoing through the same experience could learn completely opposite lessons, some could be damaged by the very lessons and some could be ruined. So I guess it comes down to the understanding of the teacher and student or shall we say experience of the teacher rather than the experience itself .

Anyway I thought i could share this as it has many implications in our daily lives.

Flow unclever, good point...but does the lesson not depend on the ability of the individual to understand that whether positive or negative each experience in life is a lesson.

Some people are not particulary analytical and will move from experience to experience without learning anything (or without a desire to learn anything); whilst others will put their psyche under a microscope to determine what lessons can be learnt...

Sometimes we all have slight falls from grace...I always used to say cynically when I was younger 'why do people celebrate overcoming a situation that they have created in the first place?'...until I realised through my own mistakes that sometimes...an action we thought was innocent has repercussions that reverberate long after...

I think with strong mind and deep self knowledge lessons become easy to pass...sometimes for others personal suffering is the only way that they discover the truth of their souls...

my ramble is over now...

but good topicclp)

@ Flow

Interesting Topic.

Abstract thinking creates models that can then be tested. Someone's ability to create and use these models depend on their culture and education.

Learning from actual physical interaction with something else physical is important when some kind of manual skill needs to be developed but there are so many situations in life which if we were to stop andthink at the possible results or consequences, we would be able to experience the whole phenomenon with less overhead; we could experience it more cheaply.


Age I think is a great determinate in learning. Youths sometimes make mistakes because they are simply growing up. As they mature, mistakes should become less if not simply because the consequences have more importance.


I guess how someone has been socialized to face life and its problems isimportant to this issue. Groups of people pass down their collective wisdom in the way of culture. Studying history has helped me model my reality based upon things that have actuallyhappened. Still building models, I canbegin to forecast for results if I choose a particular course of action. This I find is a skill that has been passed down to me. I have grown up with thisway of thinking so its part of my culture.

But models are never 100% accurate so mistakes will be made. Can't think ofa better methodthough.........

Peace

flow-unclever wrote:

You have got the gist of what I was trying to say. That statements such as, 'experience is the best teacher' are being used as a gospel without proper thinking of those who are using them. Typical propaganda with the minds totally paralysed. Which brings me to another profound statement which is Equally fashionable perhaps even more misunderstood, I will give the abusers the benefit of the doubt.

"Truth is relative"

With respect to "experience is the best teacher" what "truth is relative" is telling us is that this statement is only truein relationwith the knowledge, experienceand understanding of the person who is making this statement. That turh is relative in terms of understaing of it and not in terms of its Asoluteness. What it is saying is that absolute truth does exist, however human beings are only encompassing relative quantities of that absolute truth depending on the ability of their minds.

Demonstration

Absolute truth

[--------------------------------------------------------

Relative truth

[---]

Another demonstration

Newton did work on gravity and discovered after his efforts and ability of his intelect that laws of gravity are universally the same irrespective of the size of the matter. Qunatum Mechanics discovered that what Newton said was truth but it was only part of the truth (hence relative) the bigger truth being Laws of gravity are universally true for matter whin the universe of down to particular size spectrum. Anything out of this spectrum the truth collapses.

Fascinating world isn't it?

2:255

Allah! There is no deity save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that intercedeth with Him save by His leave? He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will. His throne includeth the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous.




2:256

There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

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free wrote: [/b]

@ Run for you wife: Good response...but then some people would prefer to someone who has had the same problems as them for guidance...as they would feel that the individual would have more of a practical understanding of their problems...for example AA have a buddy system where someone who is also an alcoholic sponsors you...sometimes you can gain incredible learning from someone who has been in the same place as you...but you may prefer to emulatesomeone who is in the position that you aspire to be in (ie. a mentor)...

But, for some maybe the inspiration from such'negative'teachers come from the fact that they have moved from point A to B and they have transcended their conditions...giving you an attainable goal...you can see it as believable that you can change who you are, if your teacher has been able to change...where as if someone is already ina good, healthy position...you may feel that they lack the empathy to understand your needs and who you are as a person...Or maybe due to the fact that they have not experienced what you have; they may be condescending...or secretly judgmental of you...

@Flow

It is funny I had this debate with my mother the other day about the truth being relative...maybe it would be better if we were to say that the truth is subjective...If you take for example 96% of people believe in God (don't jump on me for the use of statistics...I know that they can be inaccurate) But, look at how the ideas of the identity of God vary...Krishna, Allah, The All, Yaweh, Jehovah, God, Buddha, Vishnu, Zoroaster, Elohim...the immutable truth for believers is that there is a God, but subjective truth determines what you call him/her/it/that and how you experience him/her/it/that

But, the truth really is a viewpoint...and depending on the individuals application of the truth depends on their idea of it...for example we all accept that racism is a universal truth...however...depending on your colour and gender...your experience of racism will be vastly different...some of the things that my brother has experienced as a black man (stop and search...someone holding their handbag...fear of the big black man) I have never experienced as a black woman.

Or to move to a less controversial viewpoint...you can read a film review...it is bad..but you choose to see it (the film) anyway...and you think the film is the most magnificent film in the world...you are so incensed that you want to write in an cuss the film critic...Both of your viewpoints exist...the film is just a film...it is your own subjective response that will make the film good or bad...

That is why I feel that the truth is subjective (relative)

@Peacemaker good points...and I liked your reasoning on the God vs Man, and Satan thread...

Was gonna ask you what you views on Deepak Chopra were if you have read any of his works...

Namaste

Buddha is a God now is he?, if he were dead he'd be turning in his grave, or listening to Nirvana, getting depressed and then killing himself and then turning in his grave, if they have graves in Nirvana. Natch.

I know that argument Peacemaker...I don't believe that Buddha was a God...onlya spiritual teacher...but some people name his as a God...and some people don't...

I don't have a God...I just know the teaching that I like and don't like

Namaste