In response to Iolite's questions about verses from the Koran in another thread....


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Quran 02: 256 says there is no compulsion in religion, HOWEVER:
"Quran 9: 29 Fight those who do not profess the true faith(Islam) till they pay the polltax (jiziya) with the hand of humility."
Also, if religion cannot be compelled on a person, why do you murder those who convert out of Islam?
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First of all, have you KILLED everyone you've FOUGHT with?

Hmmm??

If not, why do you assume that this is telling the Muslims to straight up BANK and SMOKE everyone in sight?

No no no no noooooooo.....

First let's put this verse up in it's ENTIRTY, uncut and unedited...commercial free...

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Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
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First of all this verse was given to the Muslims who were with Muhammad in Mecca instructing them on how to deal with these PARTICULAR PAGANS they were already fighting.
They were instructed to continue fighting them UNTIL they submitted (which they did) by:
-abstaining from that which is forbidden (like transggresive behavior and drinking),
-acknowledge Islam's right to exist instead of trying to destroy it and it's followers
-and pay a tax for public maintainance.

Why would Allah instruct the Prophet to tax and monitor people that He ordered to be killed?








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Surah 41:9, 10, 12 list creation as having taken eight days, but Surah 10:3 says it was only six...which is it???
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Well let's look at it........


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41.9] Say: What! do you indeed disbelieve in Him Who created the earth in two periods, and do you set up equals with Him? That is the Lord of the Worlds.
[41.10] And He made in it mountains above its surface, and He blessed therein and made therein its foods, in four periods: alike for the seekers.
[41.11] Then He directed Himself to the heaven and it is a vapor, so He said to it and to the earth: Come both, willingly or unwillingly. They both said: We come willingly.
[41.12] So He ordained them seven heavens in two periods, and revealed in every heaven its affair; and We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars and (made it) to guard; that is the decree of the Mighty, the Knowing.
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[10.3] Surely your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six periods, and He is firm in power, regulating the affair, there is no intercessor except aher His permission; this is Allah, your Lord, therefore serve Him; will you not then mind?
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Okaaaayyyy?????

In the 41st Chapter I only read about 6 periods, so where did you get the extra 2 from?







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Quran 31: 29 Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and He merges Day into Night; That He has subjected the sun and moon (to His law), each running its course for a term (time) appointed.
Day and night are not the result of the movement of the sun, but the rotation of the Earth.
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Are you sure?

It is said that the sun is around 100 million miles away from the Earth, so who had a camera or visionary device that went far enough out into the universe to frame BOTH the sun and Earth together and determined what revolves around what?

Just because some scientist (Gallileo or somebody) said that the Earth moves rather than the Sun...doesn't make it true.
Scientist say that Echinacea doesn't work either.

All the prophets said the Earth is centered and the sun and moon revolves around it and until it's PROVEN (not theorized) otherwise, I'm gonna continue to believe it.







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At-Tariq 086.005-007
So let man consider from what he is created.
He is created from a gushing fluid
That issued from between the loins and ribs.

Sperm doesn't come from anywhere near the ribs.
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Every heard of a prostate?

A prostate is between the ribs and the loins and it is the PROSTATE that creates the gushing fluid (or dripping depend on how old you are) called SEMEN that contains the sperm!






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Al-Mulk 067.005 - Stars were made as missiles to be used against Djinns trying to get in Heaven.
And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.

Stars are not missiles.
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The original verse says.....

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[67.5] And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with ( lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning
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I didn't read the word STARS anywhere where in this ayat, but meteors and comets are indeed missles that can F you up if you get caught in their path!





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Luqman 031.010 - The Earth has to be stabilized by mountains so it does not quake.
He hath created the heavens without supports that ye can see, and hath cast into the earth firm hills, so that it quake not with you;

Mountains don't stop the Earth from quaking.
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Once again, let's look at what it REALLY says....

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[31.10] He created the heavens without pillars as you see them, and put mountains upon the earth lest it might convulse with you, and He spread in it animals of every kind; and We sent down water from the cloud, then caused to grow therein (vegetation) of every noble kind.
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Mountains weren't put up to stop the Earth from QUAKING but to stop it from CONVULSING.

Hell, I quake a little when I get cold...or ejaculate (gushing fluids); but when you see a brother having CONVULSIONS you better call 911 (or better yet 1-800-DIAL-A-JOKE)


Let's look at the definitions shall we......

Main Entry: 1quake
Pronunciation: 'kwAk
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): quaked; quak·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English cwacian
1 : to shake or vibrate usually from shock or instability
2 : to tremble or shudder usually from cold or fear



Main Entry: con·vulse
Pronunciation: k&n-'v&ls
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): con·vulsed; con·vuls·ing
Etymology: Latin convulsus, past participle of convellere to pluck up, convulse, from com- + vellere to pluck -- more at VULNERABLE
transitive senses : to shake or agitate violently; especially : to shake with or as if with irregular spasms




As you can see, one is more intense than the other.
Infact, one is actually seen as IRREGULAR.

Earthquakes are regular and occur everyday on different parts of the globe...but how often has the Earth CONVULSED?

The Bible speaks of a time when the Earth will be rolled up like a scroll. That doesn't happen in an Earthquake no matter how scary it may seem.

Also, an Earthquake is more local while this verse is talking about the entire globe shaking and convulsing as a result of having no counter-balancing.


Did I answer your questions?

are all the prophets in the koran muslim?

i ask this question because there are many prophets written about in the koran the were not muslims or even knew about islam. example abraham was a prophet but islam wasnt even around in his time. jesus was another prophet but he was an israelite from the tribe of judah. why would jesus be spreading the message of islam when he was an israelite?. the koran itselfstates that the inheritence and the wisdom was given to israel. another thing the koran firmly states that alcohol is forbidden sura 5:90 but in sura 47-15 the contradiction comes wen it says that there are rivers of wine in heaven. to drink alcohol is a sin so is it fair to say that muslims believe there will be sin in heaven.

Yes. All the prophets were muslim. Muslim meaning: one who surrenders themself to the will of Allah (God). And were followers of Islam. Islam meaning: Submission of ones will to Allah (God). Therefore all of the prophets you mention were muslims and are mentioned in the Quran. All submitted their will to the will of Allah, from Adam, to Noah, to Abraham, to Jesus, to Muhammad. The Quran mentions the main prophets but this list is not exclusive as Allah sent messengers to all people. In their true essence, judaism and christianity refer to submission of ones will to God, Islam. It is the followers that named it Judaism and Cristianity.

Yes alcohol is a sin for man on earth. However, alcohol was previously lawful as it does have some benefits and the Quran recognises this. Alcohol is outlawed for mankind because of the bad effects physically and socially when used in excess as is widely the case. Therefore the alcohol itself is not bad, it is the use of it that is bad.

Foreva:
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are all the prophets in the koran muslim? i ask this question because there are many prophets written about in the koran the were not muslims or even knew about islam. example abraham was a prophet but islam wasnt even around in his time. jesus was another prophet but he was an israelite from the tribe of judah. why would jesus be spreading the message of islam when he was an israelite?.
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Yes, and so were the OTHER prophets not mentioned in the Koran.
They all were Muslim and submitted to the authority of the Creator.

Just because the organized RELIGION called "Islam" wasn't around at that time, doesn't mean they weren't Muslim.

Alexander of Macedonia was an alcoholic.
The word or medical condition called "alcoholism" didn't exist at that time, but he fit the description to a tee.





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the koran itself states that the inheritence and the wisdom was given to israel
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Yes, and most of the Children of Israel became Muslims.
Why don't you?



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another thing the koran firmly states that alcohol is forbidden sura 5:90 but in sura 47-15 the contradiction comes wen it says that there are rivers of wine in heaven. to drink alcohol is a sin so is it fair to say that muslims believe there will be sin in heaven.
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Not only that, but previously MUSLIMS OF THE PAST were allowed to drink alcohol before Allah prohibited it.

They were permitted to gamble too.

Allah says in both drinking alcohol and gambling there are some positives and some negatives but the negatives outweigh the positives so it's best to abstain from both.

It is a sin in Islam to drink alcohol because of the many negative effects it has on the body and mind when you over indulge, but our bodies and minds will be perfect in Paradise and there's no need for those restrictions.

Sex outside of marriage is also forbidden in Islam but will be permitted in paradise.













Chinkkie:

Salaam....

You'd think that once you answer all the questions a person has about Islam and the Koran, then they'd give up and submit.

But answering them only strengthens their resolve to continue opposing, and they just lay low until they can think up some more sh*t to come back at you with.

If only they'd question Christianity the way they question Islam.

why shouldnt people question a religion or faith?should people just blindly follow anything?ask yourself that.i think its great how someone should defend their faith and answer all the questions asked.i think thats what makes a person,and shows how far they have studied their religion.and hands up to chinkkie in answering all the questions everyone seems to ask him-hope he keeps doing that.

anyways chinkkie in an earlier thread we had a discussion about laws in islaam not being changed from the previous laws.i think you yourself just gave an example even thougfh i was the one arguing that islamic kaws have changed the original laws set by jesus and the earlier prophets.so why the change now?it seems as though you have changed the argument to argue the point.you argued that islaam is a perfect religion and god never changes his mind so why now have you said that it was permissable earlier and nnow in the quran it is not.

plus so you are saying in heaven sex outside marriage is permissable by god?

Ahmaad rightly says "If only they'd question Christianity the way they question Islam"

and geeg rightly says that people should question religion and not follow blindly.

For me, the asking and answering of question entails pursuit and rememberance of knowledge of which both you and i may learn something new.

Geeg, you are mistaken. on your points i must say that what we discussed was the fact there is no discrepancies in the Quran. You argued that jesus changed mosaic law, whilst i argued that he did not, but in fact appraised them and changed corrupted man made jewish law which was not set by moses. there is a difference. The Quran does not change the law of jesus and moses in its true form as they are the same law and messengers of the same god, with the same message. The quran amalgamates the law of moses and teaching of jesus in their true form and adds more to extend, further and appraise it regarding past, present and future. Refer to the thread "the holy quran" for more info on the quran.

If it is alcohol that you refer too. alcohol is permissible in paridise (heaven) in the form of wine, but not wine as we know it. the verse refers to wine as "uncorruptable", meaning it will not cause intoxicating, headaches, poisen or madness (47:15).

The Quran recognised that there are some benefits in alcohol, but regarded consumption of it a sin as the problems outweighed the benefits (2:219). Alcohol became unlawful by the Quran due to this and to instead avoid it in order to prosper and not to be influenced by the effects it causes and influences including social problems, hatred, enmity, intoxication and hinderance from the rememberance of prayer, man was reminded and told it was generally not good for them (5:91).

Sooo and Chinkkie:


I though debate was all about POINT & COUNTER POINT.

It seems to me that after they bring their questions and I answer them, instead of bringing evidence to the contrary....they either just scrap up some more questions or seem to have nothing else to say.

Damn, I was looking for a little challenge or something.




blksmoke Na'mean?

and by the way i do question christinanity, i am not a christian either. i just would like to know what book you believe came first the bible or the quran? and what is your opinion on what happened to the children of israel? you know that god blessed theses people and made an everlasting covenent with them it says so in the quran also.

and by the way i do question christinanity, i am not a christian either. i just would like to know what book you believe came first the bible or the quran? and what is your opinion on what happened to the children of israel? you know that god blessed theses people and made an everlasting covenent with them it says so in the quran also.

are you afraid to answer? confused2