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Reload this Page What is Christmas really about?

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Post imported post - 22-12-04, 03:41 PM

Now I wouldn't put myself over as the most devout Chrisitian there is but I have to admit that I am more than abit peeved at all this 'Spending is down this Christmas' and 'Have you bought everyone everything the want yet'? Enough already!!! I was watching something the other day and some kids were asked to put forward words they associate with the nativity and Jesus wasn't mentioned once!!!

This year I have decided not to give out presents to anyone, just a card to let them know they are in my thoughts and I hope they have a good 2005. It initially started out as me saying I haven't got money to be lavishing some with gifts and not others so as I live alone (so no kids or live-in S.O. to buy things for) I wasn't going to give anything to anyone. I have since made a conscious decision not to get anyone anything that could be termed as a gift basically because I have had enough of people at work, in the media and even on the news going on about what gifts they have or haven't got. The whole reason and point of Christmas is just lost!

I have also asked people not to get me anything and that a card will suffice...better still, keep the card money and put it in a donation tin somewhere. This may come across as very happy clappy but I thought I would ask you if you think that we have really forgotten what Christmas is all about.

I am now avoiding the mad rush to get gifts and looking forward to eating myself stupid, seeing all the family, spending time with the boyfriend, getting to Churchand partying hard without worrying about potential debts in January....




\"Racism is not an excuse to not do the best you can\" Arthur Ashe
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Post imported post - 23-12-04, 05:11 AM

Sadly, THOUGHTLESS, I mean, CHRISTMAS is about presents...presents...and did I mention presents?

I told EVERYONE a couple of years back: "Don't get me anything"! And I meant it. People seem to forget about Jesus and go straight to Wal-Mart for the nearest deal. Yeah right.....

With everything I've done for people this year,these **** nuggets better not have their hand out. I'm cool on it. I'll be at the Waffle House and playing some xbox come christmas day. I'll throw a shout out to Jesus and thank him for everything he's done for me. That's about it.

The Great One has spoken.


The Great One has spoken.
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Post imported post - 23-12-04, 11:22 AM

Christmas is all about you Remembering your Saviour and remembering How Generously God gave His only Son. This also mean giving, but giving your life to the less priviledges and presenting yourself to them in anyway that you might help. Yes Presents are good, but really they are meant for those who maybe can not afford some things or those who perhaps are struggling. Christmas is also about the message of love, a time to appreciate one another, time to celebrate together etc.

But Sadly, these messages have been lost and what we have now is that most people Here in the UK (don't know about US) that do celebrate... celebrate the event rather than the true meaning of Christmas. They think in terms of how many presents they can get, that is their way of thinking. But not everyone has lost the true meaning, we still celebrate Christ and remembered what he has done for US, we thank him and just tell Him how much we adore Him. It is nice to receive gifts, very nice indeed but you don't have to spend everything you have buying gifts and presents and then you say you have had a wonderful Christmas. That is foolishness.

Christmas is all about Jesus
Christmas is about Telling People God's love for them.
Christmas is about Hope, Joy, Peace.


Manchester United........it is time to wake up and go on a winning Streak
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Post imported post - 23-12-04, 11:50 AM

Nice Words Saintblkclap
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Post imported post - 23-12-04, 12:08 PM

Call me cynical and suspicious but I think its a Jewish conspiracy. They control the industires that throw the nonsense out endlessly and I think they seek to undermine Christianity at its core.

How come everywhere you look people are talking about rudolph and Santa and elves and foolishness? Every Christmas movie that comes out of hollywood or any TV program that mentions Christmas is along those lines of decorated trees fairies and stuff.

Even so called devout Christians like Destiny's child sing Christmas carols to to red nose reindeers and frosty the snowman and so on. In school I remember these trivialities being given equal or greater weighting than the nativity.

Now most of you on the board know me as an atheist and I am but when I was a Christian nothing annoyed me more than the story of Jesus being sidetracked by all that nonsense. I think its to confuse people and make them unsure of what exactly it is that they are celebrating.

I think its Jewish people because I cant think who else would have to gain from this state of affairs. It trivialises and embarases the whole faith of believers in Christ by putting them on a level with elves and pixies and fat men who come down the chimney while flying big Mooses. Thats why people are being taught to say happy holidays and so on.

Bah hubug to that!

If you are a Christian the celebrate Jesus with the same passion and credibility that Muslims celebrate Eid and Hindu's have for Divali etc etc

Now thats enough defendingChristianity from me for a year... have to go elsewhere and get back in character now lol



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Post imported post - 23-12-04, 12:24 PM

offtopic.gif.....For The Attention Of Drunk Monkey.....

......DM...If you're reading this would U kindly remove the picture of The Downs Syndrone Boy winning that race on the "What Is It To Be Black" Forum....Posted @ 12.05...............Thanks for that DM.
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Post imported post - 23-12-04, 12:32 PM

offtopic.gif

CB Yes I do think its in bad taste and I dont like it myself.


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Post imported post - 23-12-04, 12:41 PM

DrunkMonkey wrote:
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offtopic.gif

CB Yes I do think its in bad taste and I dont like it myself. ......Thanks DM.
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Post imported post - 23-12-04, 03:15 PM

Saint wrote:....
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It is nice to receive gifts, very nice indeed but you don't have to spend everything you have buying gifts and presents and then you say you have had a wonderful Christmas. That is foolishness.

Christmas is all about Jesus
Christmas is about Telling People God's love for them.
Christmas is about Hope, Joy, Peace.
Quote:
clp)Sanit, ITA!!! Well said.


\"Racism is not an excuse to not do the best you can\" Arthur Ashe
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Post imported post - 23-12-04, 05:28 PM

Salaam (Peace) to all.

The following are not my words, but I agree with them.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear reader,

The following message is based on historical documentation and does not necessarily reflect the thoughts, emotions and feelings of every member of this group. Some due to their belief system may become emotional as a result of this information being presented to them. Facts however are facts and regardless to our attachment to things that may not be founded in truth it is still the responsibility of the person who knows the truth to bear it.

Christmas according to this documentation is a Pagan ceremony and has nothing to do with Jesus or his birth (He was not born on December 25th....note the usage of X-mas to replace Christ. X is generally used to signify something unknown). If you chose to practice those customs due to your emotional attachment to the holiday then that is strictly up to you. That is a natural human response when a belief system is being challenged. It's the same response that someone would have when information about a mate or loved one is presented to them.


They first go through denial, then they may disassociate themselves from the person presenting the information. Just bear in mind that nobody can judge you or condemn you because of the choices you make, that is between you and your Lord. However, according to historical data and facts, Jesus' good name has been used as a shield to practice dirty religion. All seekers of truth read on.....those who don't want anything conflicting with their present system of beliefs press delete.



Thanks for reading these words and now I present to you all:



THE ORIGIN OF CHRISTMAS


________________________________




"Thus saith the lord, learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."



Jeremiah 10:2-4



Where did Christmas Come from?



According to a Roman almanac, the Christian festival of Christmas was celebrated in Rome by AD 336. In the eastern part of the Roman Empire, however, a festival on January 6 commemorated the manifestation of God in both the birth and the baptism of Jesus, except in Jerusalem, where only the birth was celebrated. During the 4th century the celebration of Christ's birth on December 25 was gradually adopted by most Eastern churches. In Jerusalem, opposition to Christmas lasted longer, but it was subsequently accepted.

In the Armenian Church, a Christmas on December 25 was never accepted; Christ's birth is celebrated on January 6. After Christmas was established in the East, the baptism of Jesus was celebrated on Epiphany, January 6. In the West, however, Epiphany was the day on which the visit of the Magi to the infant Jesus was celebrated. Encyclopedia Britannica Christmas was not celebrated, commemorated, or observed, neither by the apostles nor in the apostolic church. It was sufficient for the early Christians that Jesus, their Lord and Savior, had come in the flesh, the day and the time of His birth had no relevance to them, because Jesus had returned to heaven. It was the risen, exalted Christ whom they looked to, not to a babe laid in a manger. Jesus Christ is no longer the "Christ-child," but the exalted Lord of all.



In pagan Rome, 300 years after the resurrection of our Lord, there was a yearly feast celebrating the Roman god Saturn. This time of celebration was always situated around the December 17th - 23rd time frame, which was also called the Winter Solstice.



The pagan year is a period of days, months and times that revolve around the seasonal changes of the earth (winter, spring, summer and autumn). The Winter Solstice is a day or period of days in the winter when the days are shortest (light) and the nights longest (darkness prevails). This is usually a time in their festivities of drunkenness, revelry and debauchery (perversion).



The Pagan Romans called this celebration "The Feast of Saturnalia," in honor of their god Saturn. Notice how close the name and sound of SATAN and SATURN are. This festival was celebrated the from the 17th to the 23rd of December. It was a time of merrymaking, and on the last two days exchanging "gifts" from house to house in honor of Saturn.



"Saturnalia"-was the name of an ancient Roman festival given in honor of Saturn, the Roman harvest god. The festival began on Dec.17th and lasted for seven days. On the first day, public religious ceremonies honoring Saturn took place. On the second day, many families offered sacrifices of young pigs. The Saturnalia festival was a gay occasion. Schools closed and all public business stopped. Courts of law closed their doors, and no criminals could be punished. Families held their banquets and even slaves were free to attend the festival. The last days of the festival were spent visiting and exchanging presents.


Some of the gifts were little clay images called "sigillaria", which means small images (idols) World Book Encyclopedia Then on the 25th of December, they began the new Celebration of "The birthday of the unconquerable Sun" (Natalis Solis Invicti). The ancient pagans believed that the sun would die during the winter solstice and then rise again from death as the solstice ended and the days of light began to lengthen, with the sun climbing higher in the sky, regaining its dominance. December 25 was also regarded as the birth date of the Persian/Iranian mystery god Mithras, the Sun of Righteousness, the god of light, the Grand Deliverer. The Sun God Mithras was a popular deity in the Old Roman Empire, whose cult penetrated the Roman world in the first century B.C.



"This festival has been commonly believed to have had only an astronomical character, referring simply to the completion of the sun's yearly course, and the commencement of a new cycle. But there is indubitable evidence that the festival in question had a much higher influence than this--that it commemorated not merely the figurative birthday of the sun in the renewal of its course, but the birth-day of the grand Deliverer...the Sun-God and great mediatorial divinity."
Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons or The Papal Worship, Loizeaux Brothers, 1916, pp. 94, 97



Mithra was known as Horus in Egypt, Tammuz in Babylon and various appellations in other ancient mythologies: The Sun-god Osiris and his consort, Isis, together with Re-Atum, the "Father of the Gods," were regarded by the ancient Egyptians as the supreme rulers of a Golden Age of plenty called Zep Tepi or the "First Time." Their kingdom ended abruptly when Osiris was murdered by his evil brother, Seth or Typhon. The childless Isis searched for the dismembered body of Osiris, which she then reassembled and resuscitated long enough to conceive a son named Horus. Horus was believed to be the reincarnation of Osiris, and the new husband of Isis, whose destiny it was to repossess the Kingdom of Osiris from the control of Seth.



http://www.revelationwebsite.co.uk/index1/santa/maryisis.GIF


The Horus myth is a perversion of the Genesis account of God's judgment of Nimrod and the Babylonian religious system from which Egyptian mystery religions derived.



This fable forms the basis of Freemasonry and other occult belief systems.



Mormons, whose founder was a Freemason, believe that Satan is the brother of Jesus, just as Seth was the brother of Osiris.



"In Egypt, the son of Isis, the Egyptian title for the queen of heaven, was born at this very time, 'about the time of the winter solstice.' The very name by which Christmas is popularly known among ourselves - Yule day - proves at once its Pagan and Babylonian origin. 'Yule' is the Chaldee name for an 'infant' or 'little child' and as the 25th of December was called by our Pagan Anglo-Saxon ancestors, 'Yule-day,' or the 'Child's day,' and the night which preceded it, 'Mother-night,' long before they came into contact with Christianity, that sufficiently proves its real character. Far and wide in the realms of paganism was this birth-day observed." The Two Babylons, pp. 93, 94



"Mother night", which today is called, "Christmas Eve", has nothing to do with Mary, the mother of our Lord, it was observed centuries before Jesus was born. Semiramis (Nimrod's wife) was the inspiration for "Mother night," and "Child's day" was the birthday of her son (Tammuz), the sun-god.



Obviously Satan knew that Jesus would leave heaven and be born of a virgin to become the Saviour, and mediator between God and man, so he created a counterfeit Virgin and child, to confuse the people and take away their worship from God. The counterfeit Virgin was a beautiful witch named Semiramis.



After the flood, the survivors multiplied and built the city of Babylon. Semiramis became the Queen of Babylon and married Nimrod (historically known as the husband of his mother). When Nimrod was put to death, Satans phony virgin, Semiramis, gave birth to another child, Tammuz (who became the sun god, Baal) and claimed that he was Nimrod reincarnated.



The satanic cult that was formed around them was so powerful that it spread around the world. When the people of Babylon were scattered to various parts of the earth, they took with them the worship of the divine mother and child. Satan had successfully set up his own counterfeit religion long before Jesus was born. Semiramis became known by many names, and as time went on, monuments of the goddess and her child appeared in many nations.



Babylon: Semiramis and Tammuz (BAAL)

China: Shing Moo (Holy Mother)

Greece: Aphrodite (goddess) "The Mediatrix"

India: Devaki (goddess) Crishna (child)

Rome: Venus (goddess) Jupiter (child)

Ephesus: Diana (the mother of gods identified with Semiramis)

Egypt: Isis (goddess mother) Horus (child)

Scandinavia: Disa Pictured with a child

Israel: Ashtaroth (goddess) Baal (child) (Judges 2:13)



"Even in Tibet, China, and Japan, the Jesuit missionaries were astonished to find the counterpart of Madonna and her child as devoutly worshipped as in papal Rome itself."
The Two Babylons, Hislop, p.20



http://www.revelationwebsite.co.uk/index1/santa/idols.GIF

http://www.revelationwebsite.co.uk/index1/santa/idol.GIF



Religion played an essential role in the world of ancient Rome. By giving official status to Christianity, Emperor Constantine brought internal peace to the Empire. Constantine was a brilliant military commander, he had the genius to recognize that after declaring Christianity the "state" religion, and forcing all the pagans of his empire to be baptized into the Roman Church, there was need for true union between paganism and Christianity.

The Constantine-led Roman Church reinterpreted (i.e., "Christianized") pagan symbols, forms, customs, and traditions in order to make Christianity palatable to the pagans, they were still able to worship their old gods, but under different names. They took Saturnalia, and adopted it into Christianity.


Since the 25th of December was the birthday of the sun-god, the Roman Church took this pagan ritual and worshiped the Birthday of the Son of God. Jesus Christ was presented as the Sun of Righteousness [Malachi 4:2] replacing the sun god Mithras.



Alexander Hislop, in The Two Babylons, noted the purity of the early church as regards the adoption of pagan traditions prior to the Roman Catholic apostasy:



"...within the Christian Church no such festival as Christmas was ever heard of till the third century, and...not till the fourth century was far advanced did it gain much observance. How, then, did the Romish Church fix on December 25th as Christmas-day? Why, thus: Long before the fourth century, and long before the Christian era itself, a festival was celebrated among the heathen, at that precise time of the year, in honour of the birth of the son of the Babylonian queen of heaven; and it may fairly be presumed that, in order to conciliate the heathen, and to swell the number of nominal adherents of Christianity, the same festival was adopted by the Roman Church, giving it the name of Christ."
The Two Babylons, p 93




"Christianization" of Pagan Customs, Symbols, and Terminology

Christianity had to undergo a transformation so that pagan Rome could "convert" without giving up its old beliefs and rituals. The actual effect was to paganize official Christianity:

"'A compound religion had been manufactured, of which ... Christianity furnished the nomenclature, and Paganism the doctrines and rights.' The idolatry of the Roman world, though deposed from its ancient pre-eminence, had by no means been demolished. Instead of this, its pagan nakedness had been covered with the garb of a deformed Christianity"
Vine, W.E, Gospel Tract Publications. The Collected Writings of W.E. Vine, Volume 5. Glasgow, Scotland, 1986, pp.436-439



Pagan holidays were reclassified as Christian holidays (holy-days), and pagan customs involving vestments, candles, incense, images, and processions were all incorporated into church worship and continue today. The idea of confessionals, and celibacy for the priesthood came from the ancient Babylonian system.



The logical person to replace the Great Mother of paganism was Mary, the mother of Jesus. It mattered not to pagan Rome whether they worshiped the goddess mother and her child under the Egyptian names of Isis and Horus, or the Babylonian names of Semiramis and Tammuz, or the Roman names of Venus and Jupiter, or under the names of the "Virgin Mary" and the "Christ-child.". Either way, it was the same old idol-religion.



Constantine used religion as a political tool, and started to introduce the Babylonian mystery religions in 313 A.D. which then established a foothold with the holding of the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.



In 375 A.D., the Church of Rome under Pope Julius I merely announced that the birth date of Christ had been "discovered" to be December 25th, and was accepted as such by the "faithful." The festival of Saturnalia and the birthday of Mithras could now be celebrated as the birthday of Christ, even though the early church fathers, including Origen, stated for the record that it was blasphemous to celebrate this festival. Following the lead of Rome, the Church at Jerusalem commenced the celebration of Christmas on December 25th , around 440 A.D.
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Post imported post - 23-12-04, 05:32 PM

Salaam (Peace) to you, all.

*********wrote:
What difference does it make if the date is not accurate. What may have began as a pagan holiday has evolved into a christian celebration of the birth of Christ. The joy is in the celebration of his birth not in the accuracy of the date or its origins.

Matthew 7
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


There is no way that something UNRIGHTEOUS can "evolve" into something Righteous.
If we believe in the Word of God, then let us be found FOLLOWING it. If we are in error, and the Truth is presented to us, then if we are Children of the Light, we should correct ourselves. It is better to be uncomfortableyet correct than to be comfortable in error.

If it is not FROM God, then it is not OF God.

PLEASE don't take this as a slight against JESUS the CHRIST. It is an indictment against the corruption that is perpetuated IN HIS NAME.

You can do whate