The BN Village  
Home Register FAQ Members Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Welcome to the African and Caribbean Social network.

You are currently are in guest mode which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access other features. By joining this free African Caribbean Social utility you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), upload images, add videos, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join the African and Caribbean community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Go Back   The BN Village > Welcome to The Black Forum - The Black net Village > Spirituality & Religion Village
Reload this Page Some thoughts

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
imported post
(#26 (permalink))
Old
TheStudent is Offline
Villager
TheStudent
 
Posts: 620
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: , ,
Post imported post - 09-04-05, 09:24 PM

Yeah practical if you want to worship Mecca.

who worships mecca? not me. why dont you hold up your cross and pray to your picture of jesus on the wall. thats as deep as your faith gets.

Gods spirit is not Gabriel or the fakeÂ*Gabriel who Inspired Muhammed to write the Quran including the satanic verses.

prove it!!


The same angel who’s holy book needs to be abrogated.

this coming from someone whos book is FILLED with contradiction. those in glass houses....


YaHuWaH Eloh(im) - HuwaAllah - He is Allah

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati Share On Face Book!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
Remove advertisements
Advertisement
Advertisement Sponsored links

imported post
(#27 (permalink))
Old
KANOBI is Offline
Villager
KANOBI
 
Posts: 409
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: , ,
Post imported post - 09-04-05, 09:30 PM

TheStudent wrote:
Quote:
Yeah practical if you want to worship Mecca.

who worships mecca? not me. why dont you hold up your cross and pray to your picture of jesus on the wall. thats as deep as your faith gets.
Quote:
Do christains pray to a picture of Jesus and cross? False
Quote:
Do muslims pray to Mecca? True undisputed FACT!
Quote:

Gods spirit is not Gabriel or the fakeGabriel who Inspired Muhammed to write the Quran including the satanic verses.


prove it!!


I have already

The same angel who’s holy book needs to be abrogated.

this coming from someone whos book is FILLED with contradiction. those in glass houses....


Bible contradictions? False (even if you contend)

Quran abrogated? Undisputed FACT!
Quote:
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati Share On Face Book!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
imported post
(#28 (permalink))
Old
TheStudent is Offline
Villager
TheStudent
 
Posts: 620
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: , ,
Post imported post - 09-04-05, 09:42 PM

Do christains pray to a picture of Jesus and cross? False


you cant step into a church without falling over a cross or two.
what is that thing you wear around your neck and hold onto when you pray?
sounds like IDOL WORSHIP to me...
and i must be making up all those pictures of the blond blue eyed jesus. must be those pesky muslims trying to lead you astray!!

dont forget the second commandment:

"You shall not make for yourself a GRAVEN IMAGE, or ANY likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall NOT BOW DOWN to them or serve them; for I The Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate Me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love Me and KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS."

sounds like all those christians who have statues and pictures of jesus on the cross in their churchs and homes are in for a ROUGH ride.


YaHuWaH Eloh(im) - HuwaAllah - He is Allah

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati Share On Face Book!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
imported post
(#29 (permalink))
Old
KANOBI is Offline
Villager
KANOBI
 
Posts: 409
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: , ,
Post imported post - 09-04-05, 09:44 PM

TheStudent wrote:
Quote:
Do christains pray to a picture of Jesus and cross? False


you cant step into a church without falling over a cross or two.
what is that thing you wear around your neck and hold onto when you pray?
sounds like IDOL WORSHIP to me...
and i must be making up all those pictures of the blond blue eyed jesus. must be those pesky muslims trying to lead you astray!!

dont forget the second commandment:

"You shall not make for yourself a GRAVEN IMAGE, or ANY likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall NOT BOW DOWN to them or serve them; for I The Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate Me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love Me and KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS."

sounds like all those christians who have statues and pictures of jesus on the cross in their churchs and homes are in for a ROUGH ride.
Quote:
Do I really need to this rubbish? Wise up!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati Share On Face Book!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
imported post
(#30 (permalink))
Old
jamal786 is Offline
Villager
jamal786
 
Posts: 967
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: London, , United Kingdom
Post imported post - 09-04-05, 10:04 PM

"I really wanted you to answer my questions before I continued. Can you answer my questions about Adam pls. I keep telling you about you dodgy interpretation will you listen when I show you?" (KANOBI)

...Read again...

""But it is evident we are destined to sin just from experience also the bible tells us this. Who said anything about our fathers? When God tested Adam he tested mankind. Can you see why I say this? Could any man have choosen different from Adam? Was any man created better than Adam? If God had repeated the experimnet would he have had a different result?"" (KANOBI)


...No, man is not DESTINED to sin. Man has the freewill to choose to sin or not to sin. The same as Adam had the freewill to choose to sin or not to sin. Man is the same as Adam, no better and no worse. However, Adams choices were his OWN. Just as OUR choices are OUR own. Remember it is YOUR bible that says:

"The son (the progeny of Adam) shall NOT bear the iniquity of the father (Adam)." Ezekiel 18:20

"every man shall receive his OWN reward according to his OWN labour."I Corinthians 3:8


Furthermore, where did you get it from that everybody sins, surely not in the bible. Have you forgotten that:

"...There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was PERFECT and UPRIGHT, and one that feared God, and ESCHEWED evil.Job 1:1-22 (King James Version)"

...Regarding abrogation...

2:106. None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

16:101. When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.

13:39. Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother of the Book.


The reason i refer to these verses is to explain what is meant by abrogation. Some believe that verses of the Quran were replaced by later verses. In actual fact, some verses
were substituted by later verses as they were more relavant to a later period. This in no way implies that the initial verses were a mistake or corrected. The Qur’an was revealed over a period of 22½ years. Many reforms that were brought about in the society were gradual. This was to facilitate the adoption of new laws by the people. An abrupt change in society always leads to rebellion and anarchy.

Two different interpretations

The Glorious Qur’an says in the following verse:

"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?"
(Al-Qur’an 2:106)


A reference to this is also made in chapter 16 verse 101 of Surah Nahl. The Arabic word mentioned is ayat which means ‘signs’ or ‘verses’ and which can also mean ‘revelations’. This verse of the Qur’an can be interpreted in two different ways:

a. The revelations that are abrogated are those revelations that were revealed before the Qur’an, for example the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injeel.

Here Allah (swt) says that He does not cause the previous revelations to be forgotten but He substitutes them with something better or similar, indicating that the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injeel were substituted by the Qur’an.

b. If we consider that the Arabic word ayat in the above verse refers to the verses of the Qur’an, and not previous revelations, then it indicates that none of the verses of the Qur’an are abrogated by Allah but substituted with something better or similar. This means that certain verses of the Qur’an, that were revealed earlier were substituted by verses that were revealed later. I agree with both the interpretations.

Many Muslims and non-Muslims misunderstand the second interpretation to mean that some of the earlier verses of the Qur’an were abrogated and no longer hold true for us today, as they have been replaced by the later verses of the Qur’an or the abrogating verses. This group of people even wrongly believe that these verses contradict each other.

The Qur'an is complete.

The Qur'an is completed and what should be in it is in it, and what should not have been in it is not in it. Upon completion, the Qur'an was compiled and stored as it was meant to be, and has remained that was ever since.

5:3 This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful

57:77-80. That this is indeed a qur'an Most Honourable,
In Book well-guarded, Which none shall touch but those who are clean: A Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.

85:21-22. Nay, this is a Glorious Qur'an,
(Inscribed) in a Tablet Preserved!

15:9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).


http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm

my answer to your satanic verses is on the thread and plain to see http://www.blackchat.co.uk/theblackf...m26/10272.html

However, i must say that a clearly see why Ahmaad calls you KaNOTbi!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati Share On Face Book!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
Remove advertisements
Advertisement
Advertisement Sponsored links

imported post
(#31 (permalink))
Old
KANOBI is Offline
Villager
KANOBI
 
Posts: 409
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: , ,
Post imported post - 09-04-05, 10:28 PM

Could any man have choosen different from Adam?

Was any man created better than Adam?

If God had repeated the experimnet would he have had a different result?

Why was Adam kicked out of paradise?

Why do we all suffer the effects of Adams sin?

The bible is clear man did not originally have knowledge of good and evil do you agree the bible says this?

If it is Gods words their is no need for abrogation his word is absolute and if man rebel they rebel against God. Abrogation is clear proof the Quran is not the word of God. Could you Imagine thelaws moses brought from god being abrogated? Why did'nt this happen with the bible? You follow a false religion.

And about the satanic verses I provided a muslim link that looks at the issue fairly. Anyone can see you are not being honest in addressing Islamic issues. Everyone should read.
http://www.blackchat.co.uk/theblackf...m26/10272.html
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati Share On Face Book!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
imported post
(#32 (permalink))
Old
jamal786 is Offline
Villager
jamal786
 
Posts: 967
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: London, , United Kingdom
Post imported post - 09-04-05, 10:44 PM

Do you think so... i dont!!

http://www.blackchat.co.uk/theblackf...m26/10272.html
http://www.blackchat.co.uk/theblackf...6/10272-2.html

Could any man have choosen different from Adam?(KANOBI)

Adams choices were his OWN. Just as OUR choices are OUR own.

Was any man created better than Adam?(KANOBI)

Man is the same as Adam, no better and no worse.

If God had repeated the experimnet would he have had a different result?(KANOBI)

I cant speak for god. All i can say is that god knew what he was doing. If he gave freewill to man then that is that, and that is how god wanted it to be. Man has the freewill to choose to sin or not to sin. The same as Adam had the freewill to choose to sin or not to sin.

Why was Adam kicked out of paradise?(KANOBI)

For disobediance in that he chose to sin.

Why do we all suffer the effects of Adams sin?(KANOBI)

We do not. [/i]"The son (the progeny of Adam) shall NOT bear the iniquity of the father (Adam)." Ezekiel 18:20

"every man shall receive his OWN reward according to his OWN labour."I Corinthians 3:8 [/i]

As i said, not everybody sins:

"...There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was PERFECT and UPRIGHT, and one that feared God, and ESCHEWED evil.Job 1:1-22 (King James Version)"
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati Share On Face Book!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
imported post
(#33 (permalink))
Old
jamal786 is Offline
Villager
jamal786
 
Posts: 967
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: London, , United Kingdom
Post imported post - 09-04-05, 10:46 PM

"Abrogation is clear proof the Quran is not the word of God. Could you Imagine the laws moses brought from god being abrogated? Why did'nt this happen with the bible? You follow a false religion." (KANOBI)


...What abrogation?

2:106. None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

16:101. When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.

13:39. Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother of the Book.

The reason i refer to these verses is to explain what is meant by abrogation. Some believe that verses of the Quran were replaced by later verses. In actual fact, some verses
were substituted by later verses as they were more relavant to a later period. This in no way implies that the initial verses were a mistake or corrected. The Qur’an was revealed over a period of 22½ years. Many reforms that were brought about in the society were gradual. This was to facilitate the adoption of new laws by the people. An abrupt change in society always leads to rebellion and anarchy.

Two different interpretations

The Glorious Qur’an says in the following verse:

"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?"
(Al-Qur’an 2:106)

A reference to this is also made in chapter 16 verse 101 of Surah Nahl. The Arabic word mentioned is ayat which means ‘signs’ or ‘verses’ and which can also mean ‘revelations’. This verse of the Qur’an can be interpreted in two different ways:

a. The revelations that are abrogated are those revelations that were revealed before the Qur’an, for example the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injeel.

Here Allah (swt) says that He does not cause the previous revelations to be forgotten but He substitutes them with something better or similar, indicating that the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injeel were substituted by the Qur’an.

b. If we consider that the Arabic word ayat in the above verse refers to the verses of the Qur’an, and not previous revelations, then it indicates that none of the verses of the Qur’an are abrogated by Allah but substituted with something better or similar. This means that certain verses of the Qur’an, that were revealed earlier were substituted by verses that were revealed later. I agree with both the interpretations.

Many Muslims and non-Muslims misunderstand the second interpretation to mean that some of the earlier verses of the Qur’an were abrogated and no longer hold true for us today, as they have been replaced by the later verses of the Qur’an or the abrogating verses. This group of people even wrongly believe that these verses contradict each other.

The Qur'an is complete.

The Qur'an is completed and what should be in it is in it, and what should not have been in it is not in it. Upon completion, the Qur'an was compiled and stored as it was meant to be, and has remained that was ever since.

5:3 This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful

57:77-80. That this is indeed a qur'an Most Honourable,
In Book well-guarded, Which none shall touch but those who are clean: A Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.

85:21-22. Nay, this is a Glorious Qur'an,
(Inscribed) in a Tablet Preserved!

15:9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati Share On Face Book!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
imported post
(#34 (permalink))
Old
jamal786 is Offline
Villager
jamal786
 
Posts: 967
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: London, , United Kingdom
Post imported post - 09-04-05, 10:50 PM

""And about the satanic verses I provided a muslim link that looks at the issue fairly. Anyone can see you are not being honest in addressing Islamic issues."" (KANOBI)


The Satanic Verses?

The "Satanic verses" need to mentioned only because of the notoriety they have gained recently because of the Salman Rushdie affair. It was alleged that Muhammad (S), in a spirit of compromise, implicitly accepted the worship of old pagan idols, Lat, 'Uzza and Manat. According to some accounts he used the word "Gharaniq" to describe the Qurayshi idols. The term Gharaniq means, "Numidian cranes" which fly at great heights, and is a laudatory term. It is inconceivable that Muhammad (S) would compromise on the issue of monotheism. In fact some of his followers had already died rather than admit to Shirk (associating anything else with Allah). Tawhid, described best as pure Monotheism without any associates or even subsidiary deities, is at the core of Islam. Every Qur'anic verse is suffused and illuminated with the concept of Tawhid, which is at once both intimidating and liberating. Some of the scholars who chronicled the words and deeds of Muhammad (S) (Hadith and Sirah), notably at-Tabari and Ibn Ishaq, considered it plausible and recorded this incident while most others, including Bukhari and Muslim believed that the narrators (rawis) were not trustworthy and rejected it. Still others provide an alternative explanation. The Quraysh would frequently crowd around Muhammad (S) and speak noisily to try to interfere with the public recitation of the Qur'an near the Ka'bah. When Muhammad (S) recited, "Have you ever given a thought to Lat and 'Uzza, and Manat, the third (idol)" someone may have shouted, "Lat and 'Uzza and the third Manat, they are the exalted Gharaniq, whose intercession is approved". The Quraysh commonly used this invocation during the circumambulation of the Ka'bah while performing the pre-Islamic pilgrimage.
The Qur'an itself records the following verses which follows the previous verses more naturally:

"What! Shall ye assign to yourselves the males and to Him the females." (Qur'an 53:21)

These three verses are a pointed comment on the hypocrisy in the Qurayshi society that treated women as chattel and yet had female deities as it's major idols and has nothing to do with any Satanic interdiction in the revelatory process. Muslim outrage at Rushdie was the result of the knowledge that the statements in his book were maliciously slanderous and their only discernible intent in distorting the account was to cause deliberate provocation and blasphemy.

In terms of your "allegation" of Muhammad (pbuh) supporting paganism

The story is so manifestly absurd and untrue that it ought to have been rejected outright as such and not recorded by the chroniclers and traditionalists. But since some of them have recorded it has often been cited as ground for its genuineness, rather than the obviously discrediting features of the story itself.

Imam Fakhr Ad-Din Ar-Razi correctly points out that those who have critically looked at the story have all rejected it as spurious on the grounds of its conflict with the clear testimony of the Qur’an, the rules governing the genuineness of traditions and the dictates of reason.

The Qur’anic evidence against the genuineness of the story is of three kinds.

There are a number of statements in the Qur’an that show that neither Satan nor anyone else could interfere in the process of coming of the revelation. Nor did the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, ever entertain any intention of making compromise with the unbelieving leaders, nor did he ever interpolate in the text of the revelation.

The passages cited as having been revealed as a sequel to the incident and for reassuring the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, prove to the contrary, showing that he had not made even the slightest move towards making a compromise with the unbelieving leaders.

The internal evidence of Surah An-Najm (53), in connection with the revelation of which the story has been foisted, goes against its spirit and purpose.

THE PASSAGES FROM THE QUR’AN THAT DIRECTLY BELIE THE STORY ARE AS FOLLOWS:

“If he (Messenger) were to invent any saying in Our Name, We should certainly have seized him by the right hand and We should then have surely cut off the artery of his heart"
[Qur’an 60:44-46]

“Say; It is not for me, of my own accord, to change it (the revelation). I follow naught but what is revealed unto me"
[Qur'an 10:15]

“No falsehood can approach it from the front, nor from the rear (i.e. neither directly nor indirectly). It is sent-down from Allah the All-Wise, the All-Praiseworthy.�
[Qur'an 41:42]

“We indeed have sent down the recital (the Qur’an) and indeed are its Protectors (from any interference).�
[Qur'an 15:9]

“In what way (We have revealed it), that We may make your heart firm thereby; and We have dictated it in stages.�
[Qur'an 25:32]

It is seen from the above that the Qur’an repeatedly assures that Allah has protected it against any possibility of being tampered with directly or indirectly, that it is not for the Prophet to change it or add to it anything. If he had done so, Allah’s severe punishment would inevitably and irresistibly have befallen him. These clear and positive statements directly contradict the story, which says that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, of his own accord or being deceived by Satan introduced something into the text of revelation. Not only that. The alleged interpolation violated the fundamental teaching of the Qur’an – monotheism (Tauhid) and thus constituted the offence of shirk which Allah warns elsewhere in the Qur’an that He shall under no circumstances forgive.

The story is thus quite contrary to the specific statements of the Qur’an and also to the tenor and purport of its entire text. As such the story is totally unworthy of any credence. This is not simply from a Muslim’s point of view, but also from true historian’s point of view.

The two passages of the Qur’an that are said to have been revealed as a sequel to the story are as follows:

“Indeed they were about to divert you from what We revealed to you, in order that you forge against Us something else, and in that case they would certainly have taken you as a friend. And had We not made you firm, you would almost have inclined towards them a little; and in that case we would have made you taste the double (punishment) in death; and then you would not have found for you as against Us any helper.�
[Qur'an 17:73-75]

These verses were revealed 11 or 12 years after the call to Prophethood.

“Never did We send a Messenger nor a Prophet before you, but that when he formed an intention Satan threw something in his intention; but Allah cancels what Satan throws in and then makes His sign prevail. Allah is All-knowing, All-Wise.
[Qur'an 22:52]

This verse was revealed during the 1st year of Hijrah.

A little careful look at them would at once show that their texts, far from supporting the story, do in fact contradict it.

The first passage shows that it was the unbelievers who attempted to induce the Prophet to making a compromise with them, not that he ever wanted it. The passage further states that Allah made the Prophet’s heart firm against such attempts of the unbelievers. The emphasis here is on the intensity of the unbelievers’ attempts, and Allah’s special favor upon the Prophet making him immune against such efforts and because of such special favor, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, did not incline towards the unbelievers even a little. Finally the above verse warns that, had the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, been guilty of slight inclination towards the unbelievers’ proposals, he would have been doubly punished by Allah.

It is strange that the orientalists mention the above verses revealed about 8 or 9 years after the alleged incident as assurance from Allah, because during this period so many major events had taken place, including the Hijrah.

The Internal Evidence of Surah An-Najm (53)

The Surah starts emphasizing that,

“He (the Prophet) does not speak out of his desire. It is naught but Wahy (revelation) communicated to him.� In verses 3-4. The Surah declares that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, has not gone astray, nor erred, nor does he speak out of his own desire, but what he gives out is only revelation communicated to him. It is impossible to think that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, would immediately add the alleged two verse within this Surah itself, thus contradicting the very essence of the Surah. Though there are over 15 versions of the allegation, all the versions agree that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, recited the whole of Surah An-Najm on this occasion and prostrated himself at the end of it.

The alleged verses as follows:

“Those are swans exalted. Whose intercession is to be expected.�

These alleged two verses do not fit in any place in the Surah. If we simply insert them after verse 19 and 20 they will read as follows:

“Have you then considered Al-Lat and Al-Uzza (two idols of the pagan Arabs)
[v.19]

And Manat (another idol of the pagan Arabs), the third?
[v.20]

Those are swans exalted. Whose intercession is to be expected.
[???]

Is it for you the males and for Him the females?
[v. 21]

That indeed is a division most unfair
[v.22]

They are but names, which you have named, - you and your fathers- for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow but a guess and that which they themselves desire, whereas there has surely come to the Guidance from their Lord.
[v.23]

Or shall man have what he wishes?
[v.24]

But to Allah belongs the last (hereafter) and the first (the world)�
[v.25]

A simple glance shows that the alleged satanic verses shown in bold above do not fit in any place in the Surah An-Najm. The whole text from verses 19 to the end of the Surah has a unity and continuity on both theme and sequence. There is no giving-in on the question of intercession by anyone; no relaxation of the principle of individual and personal responsibility, no softening down of denunciation of the conduct of the unbelieving leaders and no room given to accommodating their attitudes.

The following additional information should be noted on this insinuation.

The story has come down in about a dozen varying versions and does not have a strong chain of narrators (Isnad). It is technically regarded as Mursal – i.e. its Isnad does not go up beyond the second generation (Tabi`un) after the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him. One of the versions traces back to `Abd Allah Ibn `Abbas as eye-witness, who was born some five years after the alleged event was said to have taken place. Apart from this, all the persons in the Isnad have names who are considered weak, unreliable or unknown.

The report itself suffer from grave differences and disagreements in all the four essential respects, namely:

* The occasion of the incident;

* Nature of the Prophet’s alleged act;

* The wording of the alleged “satanic verses�- as many as 15 different texts;

* The effect or sequel of the alleged incident.

There are reports that say, more significantly, that while the unbelievers heard the alleged “satanic verses�, the believers did not at all hear them. All the versions unanimously show that no objection or uneasiness was expressed by any of the believers at the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, alleged utterance of the verses, nor to his alleged dropping of them subsequently. If such an unusual incident as the giving out of some compromising verses and their subsequent withdrawal had at all taken place, it would have been narrated by some of the many Companions of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him.

`Abdallah Ibn Mas`ud says that Surah An-Najm was the first Surah, which the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, recited in front of a gathering of believers and non-believers at the Ka`bah compound. When he finished it and went into prostration, all those who were present, believers and non-believers also prostrated themselves. It is an acknowledged fact that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and the Muslims could not publicly and in a body perform prayer or recite the Qur’an at the Ka`bah before the conversion of `Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, and the revelation of Sura An-Najm took place after his conversion. Conversion of `Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, was a great gain to Islam.

The Qur’an has the stunning effect on every non-believing Quraishite who heard it and their leaders such as `Utbah Ibn Rabi`ah themselves had confessed to this. As such, the non-believers without realizing what they were doing would have gone to prostration as commanded in the last verse of the Surah, together with the Muslims. Since the Quraishite leaders prostrated themselves or made a show of prostration, they must have been pressed by their followers to explain their act. When they realized what they have done, they would have tried to find a justification for their unintentional act of abiding by the Qur’anic command.

The other fact that needs emphasizing in this connection is that the text of the so-called “satanic verses� was no new composition made on the occasion. It was an old couplet that the Quraishite pagans used to recite in praise of their goddess while circumambulating the Ka`bah. It is also to be remembered that the unbelievers used to create noise and disturbances whenever the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, or Muslims recited the Qur’an publicly. Therefore, it is very likely that when the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, recited the Surah and mentioned al-Lat and al-`Uzza in the course of his recitation and in a denunciatory strain, some of the Quraishite unbelievers instantly interrupted and protested by shouting out the couplets. Significantly enough, some versions of the story clearly state that the “satanic verses� were uttered not by the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, but by Satan or some unbelievers, and they specifically state that the Muslims did not hear it.

http://www.islamonline.net/English/I...rticle04.shtml
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati Share On Face Book!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
imported post
(#35 (permalink))
Old
KANOBI is Offline
Villager
KANOBI
 
Posts: 409
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: , ,
Post imported post - 09-04-05, 10:56 PM

jamal786 wrote:
Quote:
Do you think so... i dont!!

http://www.blackchat.co.uk/theblackf...m26/10272.html
http://www.blackchat.co.uk/theblackf...6/10272-2.html

Could any man have choosen different from Adam?(KANOBI)

Adams choices were his OWN. Just as OUR choices are OUR own.
Quote:
mmm yes or no? Is it just me or did you avoid this question?

Was any man created better than Adam?(KANOBI)

Man is the same as Adam, no better and no worse.
Quote:
So why do we have the mentally ill, people of low intelligence and other problems?
Quote:
Your being dishonest!

If God had repeated the experimnet would he have had a different result?(KANOBI)

I cant speak for god. All i can say is that god knew what he was doing. If he gave freewill to man then that is that, and that is how god wanted it to be. Man has the freewill to choose to sin or not to sin. The same as Adam had the freewill to choose to sin or not to sin.