..No Kanobi, Job did not sin (Job 1:1) as he was perfect, upright and eschewed evil.

Also Melchizedek (Heb. 7:3) is "Like Jesus", and therefore also is sinless.

Also Zechariah and Elizibeth did not sin (Luke 1:5-6). Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commandments and regulations blamelessly.

Also Mary did not sin. The Angel who delivers God’s message, says that she is full of grace in (Luke 1: 28) "Hail, (MARY) full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women."

Read the bible! You going to continue to be ignorant but if you wish to lie to yourself continue.

Bare in mind observance of the law can be considered righteous but it does not mean moral perfection. Romans goes into this in depth so maybe you should read it and stop being foolish.

The fact remains that the bible says:

There is no one righteous, not even one; Romans 3:10


..Which contradicts further passages which say:


Job did not sin (Job 1:1) as he was perfect, upright and eschewed evil.

Also Melchizedek (Heb. 7:3) is "Like Jesus", and therefore also is sinless.

Also Zechariah and Elizibeth did not sin (Luke 1:5-6). Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commandments and regulations blamelessly.

Also Mary did not sin. The Angel who delivers God’s message, says that she is full of grace in (Luke 1: 28) "Hail, (MARY) full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women."


..Therefore next time you use a verse such as Romans 3:10, i suggerst you consider it properly first, unless you are prepared to admit bible contradictions.

Why is it that Muslims do not accept the doctrine of Original Sin?

""Some will say that Adam was created perfect and that when he sinned he ruined that perfection. This suggestion makes no sense. If perfection meant that Adam had no ability to choose between good and evil, then how did he exercise that choice which he supposedly did not have? And if he had the ability to choose, as Muslims believe, then why would God remain forever angry with him for his first mistake? Humankind was then in its infancy. We needed someone to pick us up when we fall, not someone to bulldoze us with a tremendous burden of sin and guilt.

Some will say that God could not forgive Adam even if He wanted to do so, since God is Just and He must exact justice. This is as if to say that justice is contrary to mercy, and that God is so fenced in by His own law that He has no freedom to do what He wants to do. How silly! The truth is that God warns us of His punishment, but He also promises forgiveness for those who sincerely repent. If He decides to save sinners, who is there to say He cannot do what He wishes?""

http://www.geocities.com/islamroots/...riginalSin.htm

jamal786 wrote: Why is it that Muslims do not accept the doctrine of Original Sin?

""Some will say that Adam was created perfect and that when he sinned he ruined that perfection. This suggestion makes no sense. If perfection meant that Adam had no ability to choose between good and evil, then how did he exercise that choice which he supposedly did not have? PAUSE!..........................Who said perfection meant inability to choose good and evil? In fact perfection requires freewill. And if he had the ability to choose, as Muslims believe, then why would God remain forever angry with him for his first mistake? Does the fact that he chose to sin lessen the charge? Would he have been more guilty if he did not choose? Adam was created a free agent who was responsible for his actions and he chose evil and broke his covenant with God. The offence of the trespass is in relationship to the dignity of who it was committed against. As Almighty Gods is holy and perfect and his dignity is infinite any trespass against him is infinite and is an completely offensive to his holiness. This is why mankind was expelled from the presence of God. Humankind was then in its infancy. We needed someone to pick us up when we fall, not someone to bulldoze us with a tremendous burden of sin and guilt. Adam knew enough to be held accountable for his sin and so he was guilty as he knew he was doing evil. Adam was not a baby nor did he have the mind of one!

Some will say that God could not forgive Adam even if He wanted to do so, since God is Just and He must exact justice. This is as if to say that justice is contrary to mercy, and that God is so fenced in by His own law that He has no freedom to do what He wants to do. How silly! But neither does God go against his nature so there must be justice before mankind can be fully forgiven. God provided a way because of his mercy and he remained just and consistent with his nature, and in doing so showed his love for mankind. The truth is that God warns us of His punishment, but He also promises forgiveness for those who sincerely repent. If He decides to save sinners, who is there to say He cannot do what He wishes?"" He can do as he wishes but what does God wish to do? what he wishes to do must be consistent with his holy nature. To just overlook the Sin of Adam is to be inconsistent with his holiness. Can you tell me why Adam suffered at all for his sin in this fallen world? Can you explain to me why God allows Satan to continue whisper in mans ear? It seems these things are related to the fact Adams sinned would you agree?

http://www.geocities.com/islamroots/a/christ/TheOriginalSin.htm mmmmm?

Try these instead

http://www.muhammadanism.com/Gospel/Atonement_Meaning.htm

http://www.muhammadanism.com/strombeck/great_salvation.pdf

The point is that this is why MUSLIMS do not believe in origianal sin.

However, to explain, we believe that one is not judged for the sins of another, and that Allah is forgiving. Most gracious, most merciful.

Furthermore, the christian theory is that Adam was created perfect and then fell from grace and sinned. What the article argues is that if Adam was perfect then he would not have sinned for any reason, for he would have been unable to do evil, as evil is a sign of impurity and no impurity would have been able to impregnate him at all if he were pure and perfect.

Obviously he was not pure and perfect, as he had the potential to do wrong and evil which he did. If Adam was created as a perfect being, then the question is that did god know what he would do. If god did not know or think that Adam would sin then Adam was created sinless.

If Adam was created sinless and then went on to sin, then god made a mistake in thinkng that Adam was sinless, perfect and pure.

If god knew that Adam would sin or had the potential to sin, then Adam was not made perfect, or be it made in a way that he would remain perfect. This therefore means that god knew that Adam had the potential to sin, which is why he had to tell him to stay away from the fobbidden tree.

Therefore, since God knew this could happen at any time, why would it come as such a surprise as what Adam done. Obviously Adam was in a learning stage and would be chastised for his wrong doing and told not to do it again. God is merciful at the end of the day. Why would all mankind be blamed for this sin, it makes no sense.

If man was not created perfect who is responsible for mans sin? If god is good and hates sin why did he create man a weakness to sin? But hold on you actually believe that man can live without sinning! I think your not intouch with reality! and the bible for that matter!

Your view of perfection is void of freewill and that is the problem. If it was possible for man to be perfect in the way you envision but yet have freewill then God would havecreated himso! wouldn't that be ideal? And according to your vision of perfection we would still be in paradise and no man would see hell. Why wouldn't a good God do this? Maybe because he wanted only dishonest people to find the truth? Thats why he sent a Religion that is morally corrupt and presents a false view of God and man.

Alternatively Islam is a false belief!

Exactly, if man has freewill, then he has the potential to do wrong. Therefore god knew that Adam had the potential to sin and do wrong, which he did. Man is perfect as he is as god wanted him to be. This included the ability to sin. Therefore, man does not hold any burden for the sins of Adam as mans is the same as Adam with the same potential to sin as Adam. It is illogical to say that man is damned due to Adams sin, as man had the potential to sin whether Adam sinned or not.

Some sin, some do not. This is why it is also illogical for ALL mankind to be punished for Adams sin.

Job did not sin (Job 1:1) as he was perfect, upright and eschewed evil.

Also Melchizedek (Heb. 7:3) is "Like Jesus", and therefore also is sinless.

Also Zechariah and Elizibeth did not sin (Luke 1:5-6). Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commandments and regulations blamelessly.

Also Mary did not sin. The Angel who delivers God’s message, says that she is full of grace in (Luke 1: 28) "Hail, (MARY) full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women."

What you dont realise is that by the bible alone, the theory of original sin is flawed.

Furthermore, the bible tells that man is not responsible for the sins of others, therefore again, the sins of Adam is irrelevant.

"The son (the progeny of Adam) shall NOT bear the iniquity of the father (Adam)." Ezekiel 18:20

"every man shall receive his OWN reward according to his OWN labour."I Corinthians 3:8

"The fathers shall NOT be put to death for the children, NEITHER shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his OWN sin." Deuteronomy 24:16

"But every one shall die for his OWN iniquity ..." Jeremiah 31:30:

“Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God BELONGS to such as these." Mark 10:14

I think I have reached a point of refering you back to old answers and old questions you have not answered. It shows you just don't pay attention and follow arguements. From now on I am going to start posting oldposts and see how long I can do it until we progress.

KANOBI...

you have done that all along. The same old info from the same old sites. When you cant answer a post, you ignore it and refer back to the same old unauthentic, invalied, incomplete information.

The fact remains that you cannot prove "Original Sin" as a FACT. If you can then do so.

The implication of this failure is that "Eternal Salvation" is therefore irrelevant.

Exactly, if man has freewill, then he has the potential to do wrong. Therefore god knew that Adam had the potential to sin and do wrong, which he did. Man is perfect as he is as god wanted him to be. This included the ability to sin. Therefore, man does not hold any burden for the sins of Adam as mans is the same as Adam with the same potential to sin as Adam. It is illogical to say that man is damned due to Adams sin, as man had the potential to sin whether Adam sinned or not.

Some sin, some do not. This is why it is also illogical for ALL mankind to be punished for Adams sin.

Job did not sin (Job 1:1) as he was perfect, upright and eschewed evil.

Also Melchizedek (Heb. 7:3) is "Like Jesus", and therefore also is sinless.

Also Zechariah and Elizibeth did not sin (Luke 1:5-6). Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commandments and regulations blamelessly.

Also Mary did not sin. The Angel who delivers God’s message, says that she is full of grace in (Luke 1: 28) "Hail, (MARY) full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women."

What you dont realise is that by the bible alone, the theory of original sin is flawed.


Furthermore, the bible tells that man is not responsible for the sins of others, therefore again, the sins of Adam is irrelevant.

"The son (the progeny of Adam) shall NOT bear the iniquity of the father (Adam)." Ezekiel 18:20

"every man shall receive his OWN reward according to his OWN labour."I Corinthians 3:8

"The fathers shall NOT be put to death for the children, NEITHER shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his OWN sin." Deuteronomy 24:16

"But every one shall die for his OWN iniquity ..." Jeremiah 31:30:

“Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God BELONGS to such as these." Mark 10:14


Futhermore, Another little contradiction on your "original sin theory". If you argue ALL will experiance death due to the sins of Adam. and ALL can ONLY enter heaven by accepting Christ as their Saviour.

This does not account for Enoch and Elijah.

The Bible tells us that Enoch and Elijah did not die.

Genesis 5:24 "Then Enoch walked with God, and he was no longer here, for God took him." NAB

Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had taken him." RSV

2 Kings 2:11 "And as they still went on and talked, behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." RSV

I think anyone that surfs these forums would see it is you who posts the same old thing! Trust me you are the worst on this site for it!