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Post imported post - 24-04-05, 04:15 PM

got this from another site:

# Christianity (1.9+ billion people). 600 year head start on Islam

# Islam (1.5+ billion people). Catching up at a rate of 10:1. Many of the converts are Atheists or Christians (including many Church leaders and ministers). By 2025 Muslims will out number Christians.

# In America pre 9/11 40000+ people convert to Islam per year, post 9/11, people have became curious about what makes Muslims tick. They are now discovering that what Muslims like these do are completely in the opposite direction to the teachings of Muhammad and Islam, hence why the number of converts has increased to 78000+ a year.

# Jesus' message was 2.4 years, Muhammad's 23 years

# Jesus' had 120 followers at the end of his time on earth Muhammad had tens of thousands

# Muhammad confirmed Jesus and believed in him, as Jesus said to his disciples whilst in the Garden of Gethsemane that someone would come to confirm him

# Jesus said he came to the tribe of Israel only, Muhammad said he came to all mankind.

# The different denominations of Christianity don't agree with each other about Mary, Jesus, the trinity, the many versions and revisions of the Bible etc, whereas the different denominations of Islam agree that Muhammad is the final Prophet, Jesus is a Prophet and performed miracles, God is One and Only, and the exact Quran as at the time of Muhammad is still used today by all the denominations, and the originals are still available.

# 10's of millions of Muslims have memorised the entire Quran all over the world, whereas no Christian has memorised the bible and if they did they would have to memorise their own version and would have to update their memorisations every time a new revision was released.

# The bible that we know today was written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John (who are they? Real name? Last name?) and Paul (Saul of Tarsus: A Christian Killer) who preached to the Gentiles which Jesus said not to do. None where direct disciples of Jesus.

# What is known as Apocrypha today is the Gospels that the Roman (Origin Pagans: worshiped many gods, human gods etc) Catholic Church wanted to destroy because it denies the trinity and the divinity of Jesus and reveals the coming of another (Muhammad). "Eg. The Gospel of Barnabas was accepted as a Canonical Gospel in the Churches of Alexandria till 325 C.E. In 325 C.E., the Nicene Council was held, where it was ordered that all original Gospels in Hebrew script should be destroyed. An Edict was issued that any one in possession of these Gospels will be put to death" (http://www.barnabas.net/)

# Jesus did not found Christianity and the Church (Paul did). Muhammad founded Islam.

# Muhammad taught a way of life from birth to death. Things as simple as one should sit down when they put their shoes on etc (This has been medically proven that putting your shoes on whilst standing and hunching causes lower back pain). He taught every day life issues etc.

# The Quran contains many scientific information that has been confirmed by science only in the last century. Would Muhammad have known all this stuff or is he a lucky guesser?

# The world as we know it today was influenced by Islam, scientifically, mathematically, medically, agriculturally as well as through art etc. Islam promoted education for both men and women whereas the Church forbade it and called it blasphemy and the penalty was death to anyone who would go against the Church (http://www.pbs.org/empires/islam/ a documentary by non-Muslim American historians and lecturers in religion)

# Islam is in no way derived from Zoroastrianism but follows on from Judaism as Christianity did.


YaHuWaH Eloh(im) - HuwaAllah - He is Allah

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although contains some slight inaccuracies::

From The 100, a ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History by Michael H. Hart

My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels.

Of humble origins, Muhammad founded and promulgated one of the world's great religions, and became an immensely effective political leader. Today, thirteen centuries after his death, his influence is still powerful and pervasive. The majority of the persons in this book had the advantage of being born and raised in centers of civilization, highly cultured or politically pivotal nations. Muhammad, however, was born in the year 570, in the city of Mecca, in southern Arabia, at that time a backward area of the world, far from the centers of trade, art, and learning. Orphaned at age six, he was reared in modest surroundings. Islamic tradition tells us that he was illiterate. His economic position improved when, at age twenty-five, he married a wealthy widow. Nevertheless, as he approached forty, there was little outward indication that he was a remarkable person. Most Arabs at that time were pagans, who believed in many gods. There were, however, in Mecca, a small number of Jews and Christians; it was from them no doubt that Muhammad first learned of a single, omnipotent God who ruled the entire universe.

When he was forty years old, Muhammad became convinced that this one true God (Allah) was speaking to him, and had chosen him to spread the true faith. For three years, Muhammad preached only to close friends and associates. Then, about 613, he began preaching in public. As he slowly gained converts, the Meccan authorities came to consider him a dangerous nuisance. In 622, fearing for his safety, Muhammad fled to Medina (a city some 200 miles north of Mecca), where he had been offered a position of considerable political power. This flight, called the Hegira, was the turning point of the Prophet's life. In Mecca, he had had few followers. In Medina, he had many more, and he soon acquired an influence that made him a virtual dictator. During the next few years, while Muhammad s following grew rapidly, a series of battles were fought between Medina and Mecca. This was ended in 630 with Muhammad's triumphant return to Mecca as conqueror. The remaining two and one-half years of his life witnessed the rapid conversion of the Arab tribes to the new religion. When Muhammad died, in 632, he was the effective ruler of all of southern Arabia. The Bedouin tribesmen of Arabia had a reputation as fierce warriors. But their number was small; and plagued by disunity and internecine warfare, they had been no match for the larger armies of the kingdoms in the settled agricultural areas to the north. However, unified by Muhammad for the first time in history, and inspired by their fervent belief in the one true God, these small Arab armies now embarked upon one of the most astonishing series of conquests in human history. To the northeast of Arabia lay the large Neo-Persian Empire of the Sassanids; to the northwest lay the Byzantine, or Eastern Roman Empire, centered in Constantinople. Numerically, the Arabs were no match for their opponents. On the field of battle, though, the inspired Arabs rapidly conquered all of Mesopotamia, Syria, and Palestine. By 642, Egypt had been wrested from the Byzantine Empire, while the Persian armies had been crushed at the key battles of Qadisiya in 637, and Nehavend in 642.

But even these enormous conquests-which were made under the leadership of Muhammad's close friends and immediate successors, Abu Bakr and 'Umar ibn al-Khattab -did not mark the end of the Arab advance. By 711, the Arab armies had swept completely across North Africa to the Atlantic Ocean There they turned north and, crossing the Strait of Gibraltar, overwhelmed the Visigothic kingdom in Spain. For a while, it must have seemed that the Moslems would overwhelm all of Christian Europe. However, in 732, at the famous Battle of Tours, a Moslem army, which had advanced into the center of France, was at last defeated by the Franks. Nevertheless, in a scant century of fighting, these Bedouin tribesmen, inspired by the word of the Prophet, had carved out an empire stretching from the borders of India to the Atlantic Ocean-the largest empire that the world had yet seen. And everywhere that the armies conquered, large-scale conversion to the new faith eventually followed. Now, not all of these conquests proved permanent. The Persians, though they have remained faithful to the religion of the Prophet, have since regained their independence from the Arabs. And in Spain, more than seven centuries of warfare finally resulted in the Christians reconquering the entire peninsula. However, Mesopotamia and Egypt, the two cradles of ancient civilization, have remained Arab, as has the entire coast of North Africa. The new religion, of course, continued to spread, in the intervening centuries, far beyond the borders of the original Moslem conquests. Currently it has tens of millions of adherents in Africa and Central Asia and even more in Pakistan and northern India, and in Indonesia. In Indonesia, the new faith has been a unifying factor. In the Indian subcontinent, however, the conflict between Moslems and Hindus is still a major obstacle to unity.

How, then, is one to assess the overall impact of Muhammad on human history? Like all religions, Islam exerts an enormous influence upon the lives of its followers. It is for this reason that the founders of the world's great religions all figure prominently in this book . Since there are roughly twice as many Christians as Moslems in the world, it may initially seem strange that Muhammad has been ranked higher than Jesus. There are two principal reasons for that decision. First, Muhammad played a far more important role in the development of Islam than Jesus did in the development of Christianity. Although Jesus was responsible for the main ethical and moral precepts of Christianity (insofar as these differed from Judaism), St. Paul was the main developer of Christian theology, its principal proselytizer, and the author of a large portion of the New Testament. Muhammad, however, was responsible for both the theology of Islam and its main ethical and moral principles. In addition, he played the key role in proselytizing the new faith, and in establishing the religious practices of Islam. Moreover, he is the author of the Moslem holy scriptures, the Koran, a collection of certain of Muhammad's insights that he believed had been directly revealed to him by Allah. Most of these utterances were copied more or less faithfully during Muhammad's lifetime and were collected together in authoritative form not long after his death. The Koran therefore, closely represents Muhammad's ideas and teachings and to a considerable extent his exact words. No such detailed compilation of the teachings of Christ has survived. Since the Koran is at least as important to Moslems as the Bible is to Christians, the influence of Muhammed through the medium of the Koran has been enormous It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. On the purely religious level, then, it seems likely that Muhammad has been as influential in human history as Jesus. Furthermore, Muhammad (unlike Jesus) was a secular as well as a religious leader. In fact, as the driving force behind the Arab conquests, he may well rank as the most influential political leader of all time. Of many important historical events, one might say that they were inevitable and would have occurred even without the particular political leader who guided them. For example, the South American colonies would probably have won their independence from Spain even if Simon Bolivar had never lived. But this cannot be said of the Arab conquests. Nothing similar had occurred before Muhammad, and there is no reason to believe that the conquests would have been achieved without him. The only comparable conquests in human history are those of the Mongols in the thirteenth century, which were primarily due to the influence of Genghis Khan. These conquests, however, though more extensive than those of the Arabs, did not prove permanent, and today the only areas occupied by the Mongols are those that they held prior to the time of Genghis Khan. It is far different with the conquests of the Arabs. From Iraq to Morocco, there extends a whole chain of Arab nations united not merely by their faith in Islam, but also by their Arabic language, history, and culture. The centrality of the Koran in the Moslem religion and the fact that it is written in Arabic have probably prevented the Arab language from breaking up into mutually unintelligible dialects, which might otherwise have occurred in the intervening thirteen centuries. Differences and divisions between these Arab states exist, of course, and they are considerable, but the partial disunity should not blind us to the important elements of unity that have continued to exist. For instance, neither Iran nor Indonesia, both oil-producing states and both Islamic in religion, joined in the oil embargo of the winter of 1973-74. It is no coincidence that all of the Arab states, and only the Arab states, participated in the embargo. We see, then, that the Arab conquests of the seventh century have continued to play an important role in human history, down to the present day. It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.


YaHuWaH Eloh(im) - HuwaAllah - He is Allah

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Post imported post - 25-04-05, 11:37 PM

TheStudent wrote:
Quote:
got this from another site:

# Christianity (1.9+ billion people). 600 year head start on Islam

# Islam (1.5+ billion people). Catching up at a rate of 10:1. Many of the converts are Atheists or Christians (including many Church leaders and ministers). By 2025 Muslims will out number Christians.

# In America pre 9/11 40000+ people convert to Islam per year, post 9/11, people have became curious about what makes Muslims tick. They are now discovering that what Muslims like these do are completely in the opposite direction to the teachings of Muhammad and Islam, hence why the number of converts has increased to 78000+ a year.

# Jesus' message was 2.4 years, Muhammad's 23 years

# Jesus' had 120 followers at the end of his time on earth Muhammad had tens of thousands

# Muhammad confirmed Jesus and believed in him, as Jesus said to his disciples whilst in the Garden of Gethsemane that someone would come to confirm him

# Jesus said he came to the tribe of Israel only, Muhammad said he came to all mankind.

# The different denominations of Christianity don't agree with each other about Mary, Jesus, the trinity, the many versions and revisions of the Bible etc, whereas the different denominations of Islam agree that Muhammad is the final Prophet, Jesus is a Prophet and performed miracles, God is One and Only, and the exact Quran as at the time of Muhammad is still used today by all the denominations, and the originals are still available.

# 10's of millions of Muslims have memorised the entire Quran all over the world, whereas no Christian has memorised the bible and if they did they would have to memorise their own version and would have to update their memorisations every time a new revision was released.

# The bible that we know today was written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John (who are they? Real name? Last name?) and Paul (Saul of Tarsus: A Christian Killer) who preached to the Gentiles which Jesus said not to do. None where direct disciples of Jesus.

# What is known as Apocrypha today is the Gospels that the Roman (Origin Pagans: worshiped many gods, human gods etc) Catholic Church wanted to destroy because it denies the trinity and the divinity of Jesus and reveals the coming of another (Muhammad). "Eg. The Gospel of Barnabas was accepted as a Canonical Gospel in the Churches of Alexandria till 325 C.E. In 325 C.E., the Nicene Council was held, where it was ordered that all original Gospels in Hebrew script should be destroyed. An Edict was issued that any one in possession of these Gospels will be put to death" (http://www.barnabas.net/)

# Jesus did not found Christianity and the Church (Paul did). Muhammad founded Islam.

# Muhammad taught a way of life from birth to death. Things as simple as one should sit down when they put their shoes on etc (This has been medically proven that putting your shoes on whilst standing and hunching causes lower back pain). He taught every day life issues etc.

# The Quran contains many scientific information that has been confirmed by science only in the last century. Would Muhammad have known all this stuff or is he a lucky guesser?

# The world as we know it today was influenced by Islam, scientifically, mathematically, medically, agriculturally as well as through art etc. Islam promoted education for both men and women whereas the Church forbade it and called it blasphemy and the penalty was death to anyone who would go against the Church (http://www.pbs.org/empires/islam/ a documentary by non-Muslim American historians and lecturers in religion)

# Islam is in no way derived from Zoroastrianism but follows on from Judaism as Christianity did.
Quote:
The Question to ask is why they've converted to Islam as oppose to Christianity ? Let's allow ourselves to examine this. Is it becuase one is more right then the other , i think not . Rather if they have complications within their faith that goes unresolved whether it's their own spirituality or within their Ministry / Chruch , no matter what religion they convert to they'll run into complications , becuase their seeking guidance in Man NOT God . And if that's the case they'll always turn up empty never truly grasping truth , peace or Understanding of God no matter their religion of choice.
Quote:
1. Christianity has not changed ie the Doctrine taught by Jesus . What has changed is Christians the followers of Christs Teachings. Whom have chose to go on their own accord by distorted the teachings and the truth of Jesus and God to suit their lifestyle.
Quote:
2. Some people that choose to leave Christainity do so for various reasons . One of those main reasons is that they've taken their eyes off the AUTHOR OF PERFECTION , GOD ! And they follow man or look to man for answers and guidance rather than God and the teaches of Christ.
Quote:
3. A Book that I'd like to suggest to read my brother is JESUS AND MUHAMMED BY DR. SAYYID M. SYEED. It's quite relivant to the topic in which you're addressing currently. I've read it and it's incrediable awesome.......
Quote:
Be Blessed my brother.
Quote:
Nasima.
Quote:
4. You must admitt even in Islam , if that Muslim Brother or Sister deivates or takes their focus off of God they're bound to stumble in their spiritual walk with God Correct ? Christainity is no diffrent.


* The Weak can never forgive , Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong.

* Patience is the weapon that forces deception to reveal itself.
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Post imported post - 26-04-05, 12:05 PM

The Question to ask is why they've converted to Â*Islam as oppose to Christianity ? Let's allow ourselves to examine this. Is it becuase one is more right then the other , i think not . Rather if they have complications within their faith that goes unresolved whether it's their own spirituality or within their Ministry / Chruch , no matter what religion they convert to they'll run into complications , becuase their seeking guidance in Man NOT God . And if that's the case they'll always turn upÂ* empty never truly grasping truth , peace or Understanding of God no matter their religion of choice.

youre overgenaralising here. there are multiple reasons why people convert. changing faith isnt as simple as buying a new car. the main reason i keep hearin though is because people get confused by the errors in the bible
and the fickle nature if the church. also when they find out about the origins of christmas and easter. another is because Islam is a complete way of life which is as clear as an instruction manual. christianity cant tell you all the minute details of christs life. people want and need to be guided, islam offers this guidance in abundance.
Â*

1.Â* Christianity has not changed ie the Doctrine taught by Jesus . What has changed is Christians theÂ* followers of Christs Teachings. Whom have chose to go on their own accord by distorted the teachings and the truth of Jesus and God to suit their lifestyle.

your first line i will have to disagree with. but the second i will definetly agree with!

2. Some people that choose to leave Christainity do so for various reasons . One of those main reasons is that they've taken their eyes off the AUTHOR OF PERFECTION , GOD ! And they follow man or look to man for answers and guidance rather than God and the teaches of Christ.

do you know the story of Abraham finding God?if you had never heard of jesus, muhammed or any of the prophets, would you not come to the same conclusion about the existence of God as abraham did? even without muhammed One God exists but you need the story of Jesus to believe that he was Gods son. does that make sense?

3. A Book that I'd like to suggest to read my brother is JESUS AND MUHAMMED BY DR. SAYYID M. SYEED.Â* It's quite relivant to the topic in which you're addressing currently. I've read it and it's incrediable awesome.......

post up some excerpts if you can please

Be Blessed my brother.

Â*

Nasima.

4. You must admitt even in Islam , if that Muslim Brother or Sister deivates or takes their focus off of God they're bound to stumble in their spiritual walk with God Correct ? Christainity is no diffrent.

of course. we dont decide who is muslim or not, God does.


YaHuWaH Eloh(im) - HuwaAllah - He is Allah

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2:285
YUSUFALI:
The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."
PICKTHAL: The messenger believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and (so do) believers. Each one believeth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers - We make no distinction between any of His messengers - and they say: We hear, and we obey. (Grant us) Thy forgiveness, our Lord. Unto Thee is the journeying.
SHAKIR: The messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers; We make no difference between any of His messengers; and they say: We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course.
M.M.ALI: The Messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. They all believe in Allah and His angels and His Books and His messengers. We make no difference between any of His messengers. And they say: We hear and obey; our Lord, Your forgiveness (do we crave), and to You is the eventual course.



3:143
YUSUFALI:
Muhammad is no more than a messenger: many Were the messenger that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.
PICKTHAL: Muhammad is but a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) have passed away before him. Will it be that, when he dieth or is slain, ye will turn back on your heels? He who turneth back on his heels doth no hurt to Allah, and Allah will reward the thankful.
SHAKIR: And Muhammad is no more than a messenger; the messengers have already passed away before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels!s, he will by no means do harm to Allah in the least and Allah will reward the grateful.
M.M.ALI: And Muhammad is but a messenger -- messengers have already passed away before him. If then he dies or is killed, will you turn back upon your heels? And he who turns back upon his heels will do no harm at all to Allah. And Allah will reward the grateful.


As Muslims, we must be careful not to fall into that which some of us accuse Christians of, and that is Messenger-worship. Muhammad (PBUH) is NOT the enemy of Jesus, nor a competitor against him. Nor should the Followers of these two great men of God be such.

Beware.

RM
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Post imported post - 28-04-05, 05:16 PM

107,

that fact is the message of all the prophers was the same, but what they achieved during their time on earth was different. Muhammed achieved more in his lifetime thean jesus. this is a fact. this is not to say that muhammed was a 'better' prophet than jesus, but simply his role was more varied.

muhammed was a religious, political, social and military leader. can the same be said of jesus? i love jesus for the great prophet he was and is but to say they achieved the same in their time is laughable. yet as we know, jesus will return and he WILL be a political and militatry leader, but until that time comes...


YaHuWaH Eloh(im) - HuwaAllah - He is Allah

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Quote:
2:285
YUSUFALI:
The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."
PICKTHAL: The messenger believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and (so do) believers. Each one believeth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers - We make no distinction between any of His messengers - and they say: We hear, and we obey. (Grant us) Thy forgiveness, our Lord. Unto Thee is the journeying.
SHAKIR: The messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers; We make no difference between any of His messengers; and they say: We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course.
M.M.ALI: The Messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. They all believe in Allah and His angels and His Books and His messengers. We make no difference between any of His messengers. And they say: We hear and obey; our Lord, Your forgiveness (do we crave), and to You is the eventual course.



3:143
YUSUFALI:
Muhammad is no more than a messenger: many Were the messenger that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.
PICKTHAL: Muhammad is but a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) have passed away before him. Will it be that, when he dieth or is slain, ye will turn back on your heels? He who turneth back on his heels doth no hurt to Allah, and Allah will reward the thankful.
SHAKIR: And Muhammad is no more than a messenger; the messengers have already passed away before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels!s, he will by no means do harm to Allah in the least and Allah will reward the grateful.
M.M.ALI: And Muhammad is but a messenger -- messengers have already passed away before him. If then he dies or is killed, will you turn back upon your heels? And he who turns back upon his heels will do no harm at all to Allah. And Allah will reward the grateful.


And ALLAH speaks the Truth.
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