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Post imported post - 06-05-05, 05:10 PM

I would like a few questions answered about Islam.

Why does a lot of muslims denies and defies the authentticity of the bible of which the Koran was written based on the Pentateuch (first five books of moses).

Which in turn if the bible is wrong, then so is the Koran.

Secondly, Muslims claim Mohammed couldn't read nor write however Mohammed was a trader and was in the business so its highly unlikely that a man who could not read nor write would be in a trading business.

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Post imported post - 06-05-05, 06:10 PM

we believe that parts of the bible have been changed and misinterpreted by men, porposefully and accidentally. yet we still hold the gospel given to jesus as a holy book.t he bible as it is today, contains a lot of truth.the quran only correxts some of its inaccuracies.

muhammed lived in a time when many people were illiterate.business back then was a lot simpler than today. plus he would always travel with a team. the desert isnt a place for a man to be travelling alone. what made muhammed a succesful business man was his truthfulness and honesty. people respected him and his word. this reputation was well known amongst his contemporaries.plus he was obviously blessed and guided by God. how could he not be a good trader?


YaHuWaH Eloh(im) - HuwaAllah - He is Allah

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Post imported post - 06-05-05, 10:45 PM

Born_Again04 wrote:
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I would like a few questions answered about Islam.
ok...
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Why does a lot of muslims denies and defies the authentticity of the bible of which the Koran was written based on the Pentateuch (first five books of moses).
The Holy Qur'an is NOT "based on" the Pentateuch. The Holy Qur'an is based on the same thing that the Pentateuch is based on...the Eternal Will of God.
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Which in turn if the bible is wrong, then so is the Koran.
This is an assumption, and it does not necessarily follow. I am a Serious Student of both Bible and Qur'an, but I cannot deny the CHANGES that the Bible has gone through over the centuries...no sane person can. I don't say that the Bible is totally wrong. There is enough Guidance in it that, if rightly interpreted and rightly understood, it can spell Salvation to whomever will follow it. But we cannot be like spiritual ostriches, who plunge our heads into the sand of denial, thinking that if we ignore the Truth long enough, it will cease to be. This is juvenile behavior.
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The Truth is, as the Hon. Elijah Muhammad stated, that the Bible "has been tampered with, and must be reinterpreted so that mankind will not be snared by the falsehoods that have been added to it."
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Secondly, Muslims claim Mohammed couldn't read nor write however Mohammed was a trader and was in the business so its highly unlikely that a man who could not read nor write would be in a trading business.
Oh please...I know people now who are master "traders"...who deal in goods and services...but can't read...but they sure can COUNT!...lol

Truth is, Prophet Muhammad, because of his pristine Character, was entrusted with the Business affairs of his first wife, Khadijah.

RM
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Post imported post - 09-05-05, 01:08 PM

Can you answer me this one question.

In your allegation that the Bible has been changed;

was this change taken place before the time of Mohammed

or after Mohammed????



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Post imported post - 09-05-05, 05:58 PM

Born_Again04 wrote:
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Can you answer me this one question.
Sure.
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In your allegation that the Bible has been changed;
It is not an allegation. It is a FACT. Are you Catholic? Does your Bible have the "Apocrypha"? If it does not, then you are reading/studying a "changed" version. If you are reading the KJV, or one of its variations, then you are reading a "changed" version of the "original". I don't see why this is such a difficult thing for so many Christians to accept, since Christian Scholars admit it!


was this change taken place before the time of Mohammed or after Mohammed????
The Holy Qur'an is NOT "based on" the Bible. The Holy Qur'an is based on the same thing that theBible is based on...the Eternal Will of God.

Please don't try to use the fallacy that "becauseA existed before B, then A caused B." It is just as plausible that a third entity "C" causedboth A and B.

The most recent instruction is invariably the most accurate.

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Post imported post - 09-05-05, 06:25 PM

The most recent instruction is invariably the most accurate.

107,
so would you say that you practice the same islam that muhammed practiced? in all honesty? bearing in mind that the orthodox islamic world (all 1.5 billion of them) says that NOI is outside the fold of islam?


YaHuWaH Eloh(im) - HuwaAllah - He is Allah

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Post imported post - 09-05-05, 07:19 PM

My point is:

was the Bible changed before Mohammed or was it changed after Mohammed?

And if so what proof have you got??

The only way you could justify that is if you have the old manuscripts in its original language and you can speak in the language the manuscript was written and you have compared the old manuscripts to the Bible now.????



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Post imported post - 09-05-05, 07:25 PM

born_again04 the koran is 600 yrs approx younger than the bible. says it all really.


Think outside of the box...Think in spirit

Act as if it were impossible to fail!!!
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Post imported post - 09-05-05, 08:19 PM

TheStudent wrote: ...
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so would you say that you practice the same islam that muhammed practiced? in all honesty? bearing in mind that the orthodox islamic world (all 1.5 billion of them) says that NOI is outside the fold of islam?
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In order to me to "practice the same Islam that Muhammad practiced", I would have to be living in the same environment and circumstances that Muhammad lived in.
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More than one thousand, four hundred years have passed since the time of the Great Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), and NOTHING has remained the same.
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In that regard, Sir, I humbly submit that not even YOU "practice the same Islam that Muhammad practiced."
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Islam is not "static". It is DYNAMIC...constantly evolving and unfolding new aspects of itself, like a seed which opens up and takes on a new form of a tree which will bear fruit containing new seeds.
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If you are TRYING to "practice the same Islam that Muhammad practiced", then you are sentencing your own development to death. NOTHING in Creation stays the Same, nor can ANYTHING go "backward" to its former state...not even Islam.
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As far as the "majority" disagreeing with the Nation of Islam, I am not bothered by that in the least, since I know that the "majority" also disagreed with Musa, Isa, and Muhammad - Peace be upon all of them.
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By the way, I'm stillwaiting for you to produce for us the hadith which says that, in a difference of opinion, one is obligated to side with the majority.
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Can't you find it?
According to an accepted hadith, which makes references to the different sects of Islam in the Last Day, it is precisely the "majority" that will be OFF THE PATH. IfMuhammad (PBUH) said that there would be 73 sects, and only ONE of them would be rightly guided, that means the MAJORITY are OFF the Path of God.

If you wish, I would be happy to post those hadiths for you. Just let me know.

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Peace.
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Post imported post - 09-05-05, 08:21 PM

LadyDay wrote: ...
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the koran is 600 yrs approx younger than the bible. says it all really.


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What, exactly, do you mean by this, LadyDay?
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Post imported post - 09-05-05, 10:17 PM

According to an accepted hadith, which makes references to the different sects of Islam in the Last Day, it is precisely the "majority" that will be OFF THE PATH. If Muhammad (PBUH) said that there would be 73 sects, and only ONE of them would be rightly guided, that means the MAJORITY are OFF the Path of God. '

i know this hadith. it says that only the practiconers of the Islam of Muhammed will be accepted. it is the Islam of Muhammed that is rightly guided. so again, do you practice the Islam of Muhammed? do you not agree that NOI is just one of these false sects? rememeber also that these sects do not necceserialy have to have names associated with them, but can also be frames of mind.

i promise you i have read the hadith i wrote about earlier and as soon as i see it again i will post it. i do not say lies against the final Prophet.

and yes, the bible was already changed in the time of muhammed. that is one of the reasons that muhammed was sent, to correct it.also the Gospel had slowly been re-interpreted to suit the ruling elite. this gave rise to things such as the african slave trade for one. also the fact is there is a LOT of proof in the Bible to say that the trinity is a man made concept and has no Divine origins.the fact is there are a LOT of christians who doubt the authenticity of MANY Bible passages. we muslims do not have to raise any doubts as christians themselves have already done so.

jesus said 'i have come not to change the law but to fulfill them', yet today christians do not follow the laws of the OT. this is one of the signs of the corruption and distortion of (original) Gospel teachings.


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Post imported post - 12-05-05, 02:18 PM

In response to what you are saying dont take the Bible like its a literal book. It is the word of God. What you see in the Bible its spiritual. i.e. when Jesus said "He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it" It meant that while He was tranfigured and Moses andElijah appeared unto Him. The Law and the prophets were fulfilled right there and then in Him Jesus.

Because the Law talks about Jesus and the Prophets talk about Him as well hence it was fulfilled at the tranfiguration. You will see this in Luke 24 whn Jesus was telling the apostles about the Law and the Psalms and the Prophets.

My muslim friends dont be ignorant to the truth. Where is it recorded that Mohammed came to correct the Gospel?

And by the way who changed it?

My point is have you got the original copy of the manuscripts and have you compared them to see where the change took place?

Secondly, why should God used mary to bring forth His son to die for the sins of mankind and even when Jesus was baptised the voice came from Heaven saying "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased"

Also when Jesus was transfigured, The voice came from Heaven saying "This is my beloved son, Hear He Him"

So after all these passages that have been recorded, you are telling me that God came to Mohammed about 500 to 600 years later and thousands of miles from Jerusalem to tell Mohammed, He had NO SON!!

Born_Again04