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17-05-05, 04:32 PM
For those that say that Jesus name is derived from that of Zeus or have other problems with the transliteration of the name of Jesus, read this article.
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The Meaning of Jesus' Name
"Son of Zeus" or "Salvation"
By Tim Warner - Feb. 2002
Some websites that claim to be "Messianic" are promoting the myth, proclaimed by the "sacred name" cults, that the name "Jesus" means "son of Zeus." This is a lie, and a blantant attack on the name of our Savior. There is absolutely no credible historic evidence that Jesus' name has anything whatsoever to do with Zeus. The only connection is a similarity in part of the sound in the English language.
The New Testament was written in Greek. For an in-depth study of this fact, see our article Was the New Testament Written in Hebrew <http://www.geocities.com/lasttrumpet_2000/theo/hebnt.html>? When Paul preached "Jesus Christ" he spoke the Greek words "Iesous Christos" (pronounced "Yay-soos"). When He wrote his Epistles to the Gentile Churches, he wrote the name IhsouV CristoV (spelled "Iesous Christos" using English characters). When Luke wrote the book of Acts to a Greek man named "Theophilus," he wrote in Greek quoting Peter as saying:
Acts 4:10-12
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ (IhsouV CristoV) of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
(KJV)
Luke, Peter, or Paul, didn't make it up. The Greek name "Iesous" was the name for Joshua in the Greek Translation (LXX) of the Old Testament, made 200 years before Christ was born by 70 Jewish scribes. There is a plethora of historical proof for this translation and other Greek translations that predate Christ. In fact, the name "Iesous" appears many times in the LXX Old Testament, that was in common use by the Jews of the Diaspora of Jesus' day, as well as in Israel itself. The book of "Joshua" in the LXX is the Book of "Iesous." So, when Jesus was born, the name "Iesous" was already well known among the Jews as the name of an Israelite hero, Moses' successor. Greek was commonly spoken in Israel at the time of Christ, as the following Scripture demonstrates.
John 19:19-20
19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
(KJV)
These are the names that appeared over the cross; Yeshua (Hebrew), Iesous (Greek), Iesus (Latin).
It is a blasphemous lie to proclaim that the name "Jesus" is derived from Zeus, or means "son of Zeus." There is absolutely no historical documentation for this claim. It is simply repeated by those who wish to insult Christians and blaspheme the name of our Savior. You should run from any group that promotes this lie of the Devil.
In the Old Testament, the name of Joshua the son of Nun in Hebrew was originally "Hosea" or "Howshea" (Strong's #1954) meaning "deliverer." In Numbers 13:16, Moses modified his name to "Yehoshua" (Strong's #3091) meaning "Yehoveh saves." Durring the Babylonian captivity, the name was shortened to "Yeshua" (Strong's #3442) meaning "he will save" (cf. Ex. 33:11 & Neh. 8:17). The name is exactly the same in Aramaic, "Yeshua" (Strong's #3443) and is found in an Aramaic portion of the book of Ezra (5:2).
Two hundred years before Jesus was born, Jewish scribes translated the Old Testament into Greek. They transliterated "Yehoshua" and "Yeshua" as "Iesou" (Yay-soo) and "Iesous" (Yay-soos). In both Greek and Latin, the "s" ending (Iesous {Greek} and Iesus {Latin}) is added in the nominative case only (when the name "Jesus" stands alone or is the subject of the verb). The "s" ending is not used in other cases. If you check a Greek or Latin text of the New Testament, you will find the Greek spelling "Iesou" and the Latin spelling "Iesu" are used when Jesus is not the subject of the verb, while the "s" endings (Iesous and Iesus) are used in the nominative case. In both of these languages it was proper to pronounce Jesus' name as "Yay-soo" or "Yay-soos" depending on the sentence structure. (In Spanish, both "Hay-soo" {Jesu} and "Hay-soos" {Jesus} are still used). In Exodus 17:9,10 of the Greek Old Testament (LXX), we find the name of Joshua as "Iesou" in verse 9 (Joshua not being the subject of the verb) and "Iesous" in verse 10 (Joshua being the subject of the verb). The "s" ending was added to Joshua's name by the Jewish scribes who translated the LXX, in order to conform to proper Greek grammar. This is also the case with all of the New Testament books as well, and in the early Latin translations. Since we do not make this distinction in modern English, the "s" ending is retained in all cases. So, the "s" ending was simply a function of Greek and Latin grammar, and has nothing to do with the name "Zeus."
When the Bible was first translated by Wycliffe from Latin into English, the Latin spelling "Iesus/Iesu" was retained. When William Tyndale translated the New Testament into English from the original Greek in 1525, he followed Wycliffe and also used the Latin spelling (Iesus/Iesu) because English uses the Latin alphabet. The other early English Bibles, Coverdale, Geneva, Bishops, and the 1611 KJV all used the "Iesus/Iesu" spelling. Not until the 1629 edition of the KJV was the "Jesus" spelling used.
The only reason "Jesus" is spelled with a "J" instead of an "I" in our modern English Bibles is because of the evolution of the English language. English eventually dropped the practice of using the "s" ending only in the nominative case, and retained it regardless of case. In the sixteenth century, like Latin, the letter "I" was both a vowel and a consonant. As English evolved, the letter "I" became two letters. "I" retained the characteristics of the vowel exclusively, and a hook was added to the bottom to distinguish the consonant form (J). The pronounciation remained the same as Latin for both the vowel and consonant. By the time the 1629 edition of the KJV was published, the "J" was in wide use and was incorporated in this edition. Even though Jesus' name was spelled "Jesus" in the 1629 KJV, it was still pronounced exactly the same as in Greek and Latin (Yay-soos) and in the previous English versions. This is also very close to the pronunciation in Italian and Spanish, two other languages derived from Latin. Since the seventeenth century, the pronunciation of the letter "J" evolved into what it is today. In Spanish, "J" evolved into the "H" sound, Jesus being pronounced "Hay-soos/Hay-soo." In French, the "J" took on a unique sound. In English "J" evolved in pronunciation to its present form because of French influence on the language. Also, as English drifted away from its Latin roots, the vowel "e" evolved from the "ay" sound (as in Latin and Spanish) to the long "ee" and short "eh" vowel sounds. The "u" also developed a long "ou" and short "uh" sound in English. Hence over the last 500 years, the pronounciation of the Latin spelling "Iesus" slowly evolved from "Yay-soos" to "Jee-sus." The spelling has followed the normal transliteration process from Greek, to Latin, to modern English. The pronunciation in the earliest English versions was precisely the same as the original Greek. The only real change in pronunciation, from the time of Christ until today, is due soley to the evolution of the English language in the last 500 years. The pronunciation remained the same for 1500 years in both Greek, Latin, and was retained unchanged in the languages which use the Roman alphabet - early English, Spanish, Italian, and German.
The important point is this; just as "Peter" is "Petros" in Greek, "Petrus" in Latin, "Pedro" in Spanish, and "Peter" in English, with no harm being done to the person or name, so too can the Greek "IhsouV" be transliterated into the Latin "Iesus" or the English "Jesus" and no harm is done to the name or person.
The fact is, the Greek spelling (Iesous/Iesou) and pronunciation (Yay-soos/Yay-soo) is the ONLY thing we have recorded in Scripture for the name of our Savior. Nowhere in the Bible is the name "Yeshua" used of our Lord. And the only record we have that Jesus' own name was ever actually written in Hebrew characters is John's statement about the inscription over the cross being written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. Yet, even in this case, it was probably Aramaic and not pure Hebrew. When the New Testament speaks of "Hebrew" words, the actual words in the text are Aramaic, since Aramaic was the "language of the Jews" at that time (see: John 5:2, John 19:13). If this was an issue when the New Testament was written, surely the Hebrew name "Yeshua" would have been used by the inspired writers. They had no trouble giving a direct transliteration of Peter's names "Cephas" (Aramaic) and "Simeon" (Hebrew). Yet, no such Hebrew transliteration is provided for "Jesus" (Iesous) in the entire Bible. I guess His name is actually "Iesous" after all!
Don't let Hebrew Roots folks talk you out of the name of our Savior. There is nothing wrong with using the Hebrew "Yeshua" if you prefer. But, just keep in mind that this name is not found anywhere in the Bible in referrence to our Savior. It is found in the Old Testament as the name of Joshua the son of Nun (Neh. 8:17), and nine other Israelites in the Old Testament, but never of Jesus. "Yeshua" is probably the correct rendering in Hebrew. But Jesus' name is not given to us in Hebrew. And there is no doubt that Jesus was named after Joshua. Joshua was Moses' successor in the physical sense, and Jesus was Moses' successor in the spiritual sense (see: Heb. 3). Joshua's name (Yehoshua) meant "Yehoveh saves," and the shortened name "Yeshua" meant "salvation." Hence the angel told Mary, "thou shalt call his name Jesus, for He shall save his people form their sins." IhsouV is simply Joshua's name transliterated into Greek. It is NOT a Greek name, but a Hebrew name spelled with Greek characters and according to the rules of Greek grammar. Therefore, the meaning is still the same as the Hebrew, "salvation." The Holy Spirit saw fit to inspire the New Testament writers to follow the example of the LXX using "Iesous/Iesou" rather than give a different transliteration of the Hebrew name. It doesn't matter whether Mary called Jesus "Yeshua" (if she spoke to Him in Hebrew or Aramaic) or "Iesous" if she spoke to Him in Greek. Those whom Jesus encountered during His ministry referred to Him with both, depending on whether they spoke Greek or Aramaic. (And we know that Jesus Himself spoke both Greek and Aramaic - see: Mark 5:41). What really matters is that the Apostles wrote the New Testament in Greek. Even Gabrael, when he appeared to Mary, spoke to her in Greek.
Matt 1:21-23
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS (Ihsou): for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. (KJV)
We could change the world, If God would give us the source code.
_____________________________________________
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17-05-05, 04:50 PM
Note the fact that Matthew had to give the interpretation of "Emmanuel" to his readers. Had Matthew written in Hebrew, the name "Immanuel" (from Isaiah 7:14) would have already been apparent to his readers. "Immanu-el" is a compound of two Hebrew words meaning "Accompanying" and "God." As a compound word it means "God accompanying" or "God with us." Yet, as was the practice with names, this word was transliterated and not translated. The difference being, in transliteration, the phonetic sound of names is retained as much as possible from the Hebrew by using Greek characters. In translation, the meaning of the word is retained using a corresponding Greek word without concern for the phonetic sound. That is why Matthew had to add, "which being interpreted is, God with us." By his adding this comment, we know that Matthew did not write His Gospel in Hebrew, otherwise the interpretation would be self-evident to his readers. He simply would have written in Hebrew, "his name shall be called Accompanying-God." But, since Matthew obviously wrote in Greek, and He recorded Gabrael's words to Mary in Greek, including the Greek name "Iesous," we can be absolutely certain that Mary named her child "Iesous" (Yay-soos) and not "Yeshua."
If you are concerned with the precise pronunciation as used by all of the Apostles, then the only accurate pronunciation according to the Bible is "Yay-soos/Yay-soo." But, for all practical purposes, the English "Jesus" is perfectly fine, in my opinion. If you are concerned about spelling, then the closest we can come is the Latin spelling, "Iesus/Iesu." Of the three languages contained in the inscription over the cross, Latin is the only one that uses the same characters as English.
All the fuss over the precise pronunciation and spelling is largely due to the idea that the name of Jesus has some kind of magical powers. That is not the case at all. The power is in the person of Christ, not in syllables or phonetic sounds. As long as we know who we are referring to, and others know who we are speaking about, there is no problem with the slight variations of Jesus' name in the languages of the world.
Zeph 3:8-9
8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
(KJV)
We could change the world, If God would give us the source code.
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17-05-05, 08:19 PM
First of all He was a Hebrew child and at the time of his birth the Hebrew people were very deep in traditions and birth rites, and there is no way That Yoseph an d Mariam gave there child a greek name, no way.
Second would the savior of the Hebrew be given a name from amongst the gentiles?
Thirdwhat did they call the mashiah when he was alive? did they call him jesus, I think not. This is how these same socalled experts told you his name was jesus in the first place................For those with any kind of reasoning go to Acts 26:14-15
14: And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
15: And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
When you read this what do you think, if jesus is greek and Yahshua is hebrew, when he spoke in a hebrew tongue why didn't he say Yahshua? He wasn't speaking greek, Paul's name was called in hebrew but Yahshua's wasn't. Is something not strange about that.
Fourth if iesous(Yas soos)is his namethen why didn't they continue to call him that? What is the reason for not calling him by his socalled real name ifthey knew it? Oh I forgot over time they went from Iesous to Iesou to Jesus...Did the truth ever change no but the name did because there is no truth in it....The truth is the english language didn't even have a "j" in it until the dutchcame to america and put a hook on the letter"I". You ever noticed thata small "j" has a dot above it likea small "i". they used to be one in the same. In those same socalled bibles that he uses as referencesthere are no "j" in them either.
Five read this statementfrom Mr. Warner:
Don't let Hebrew Roots folks talk you out of the name of our Savior. There is nothing wrong with using the Hebrew "Yeshua" if you prefer. But, just keep in mind that this name is not found anywhere in the Bible in referrence to our Savior. It is found in the Old Testament as the name of Joshua the son of Nun (Neh. 8:17), and nine other Israelites in the Old Testament, but never of Jesus. "Yeshua" is probably the correct rendering in Hebrew. But Jesus' name is not given to us in Hebrew. And there is no doubt that Jesus was named after Joshua. Joshua was Moses' successor in the physical sense, and Jesus was Moses' successor in the spiritual sense (see: Heb. 3). Joshua's name (Yehoshua) meant "Yehoveh saves," and the shortened name "Yeshua" meant "salvation." Hence the angel told Mary, "thou shalt call his name Jesus, for He shall save his people form their sins."
So why again do you call him Yas soos? DO you know the difference between hebrew and greek? To translate and transliterate? Most of this is common sense and the rest should be intelligence.
The truth is everybody wants to be right and will hold on to a lie to make it seem like they are right even when the truth is staring them right in the face.
Shalom
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19-05-05, 08:55 PM
First of all He was a Hebrew child and at the time of his birth the Hebrew people were very deep in traditions and birth rites, and there is no way That Yoseph an d Mariam gave there child a greek name, no way.
Agreed, I believe also that Joseph and Mary would have called the child's name in its Hebrew or aramaic form, whatever dialect they used at the time. I doubt it may have been Greek as the author of the article said above.
Second would the savior of the Hebrew be given a name from amongst the gentiles?
The origins of the name was not Gentile, read what the author said above, the name Jesus or its derivative could also be found in the Septuagint, which was written by 70 Jewish scholars. The meaning and interpretation of the name was also shared by that of Joshua who transliterated, his name in Greek would be Iseus.
Thirdwhat did they call the mashiah when he was alive? did they call him jesus, I think not. This is how these same socalled experts told you his name was jesus in the first place................For those with any kind of reasoning go to Acts 26:14-15
14: And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
15: And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
When you read this what do you think, if jesus is greek and Yahshua is hebrew, when he spoke in a hebrew tongue why didn't he say Yahshua? He wasn't speaking greek, Paul's name was called in hebrew but Yahshua's wasn't. Is something not strange about that.
I see no strangeness in that at all, the writer of Acts, wrote a letter intended for a Greek speaking person, The writer himself could speak and write Greek. He is careful to let the writer know that when Jesus did call Saul by name, he called it in the Hebrew tongue. He was making a point of it, he did not need to go on and then pronounce Jesus name in its Hebrew form.
Also the fact that Saul was an Hebrew, was the reason why Jesus called him in the Hebrew tongue, as Saul hated christianity believing it was an Heresy. Saul acknowledge the heavenly light to be from God and called him Lord, so Jesus merely identified with Saul, relieved his anxiety in some respects to let him know he was not at all deviating from the Judaic way by calling him in the Hebrew tongue, yet letting him understand he was kicking against the prick, coming against the inevitability that, that which he hated was ultimately the icing on the Judaic faith.
Fourth if iesous(Yas soos)is his namethen why didn't they continue to call him that? What is the reason for not calling him by his socalled real name ifthey knew it? Oh I forgot over time they went from Iesous to Iesou to Jesus...Did the truth ever change no but the name did because there is no truth in it....The truth is the english language didn't even have a "j" in it until the dutchcame to america and put a hook on the letter"I". You ever noticed thata small "j" has a dot above it likea small "i". they used to be one in the same. In those same socalled bibles that he uses as referencesthere are no "j" in them either.
The English language did not have a J in it, but the author as explained that above. He also then carries on to explain the transliteration of the name and the phonetics involved. He more importantly explained that this thing was not done by gentiles but by 70 Israeli scholars. In the days of Jesus, more than one language was in use don't you agree?.
I know someone now who calls me by the english pronunciation of my name and its Hebrew form. I accept both, are you saying that Jesus is unable to do the same ? So God is for Israelites only ?
So why again do you call him Yas soos? DO you know the difference between hebrew and greek? To translate and transliterate? Most of this is common sense and the rest should be intelligence.
I do know the difference, the name was transliterated in order to get the right sound, as there was no translation for that name into Greek if I understand right, just like Emmanuel, in Greek is Immanuel as the author writes above, yet where this is done, the interpretation of a transliterated name is given, which is done in the book of Matthews. If you also agree that Joshua and Jesus share the same name then you know then that the name of Joshua in the Septuagint will be rendered in its Greek form.
The truth is everybody wants to be right and will hold on to a lie to make it seem like they are right even when the truth is staring them right in the face.
No, I think that the devil as put it into the heart of certain men to start the work of deceiving even the very elect of God in these last days, by throwing up little things like this to cause doubt in the name of Jesus. Jesus said ask what you will in my name and I will give it. So what does the Satan do send out a demon to cast doubt over a name that men and women have received the holy ghost under. The attack also seems to come from all angles, the muslims have latched onto this and use it argument to sway the christian, you have the sacred name cults rising up quickly doing the same thing. In effect you are saying, you christians are so dumb because you have believed on a name that as been wrong for centuries. If it was wrong, let me tell you they wrote it wrong from the time they inscribed above the cross of Jesus, even it was wrong before that, from when the Jewish scholars etched it into the Septuagint for the Greek speaking Israelites of that time. Somehow I doubt it.
Why do the heathens rage, and Kings and Princes rise up against my anointed sayings.
We could change the world, If God would give us the source code.
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19-05-05, 10:57 PM
- I think that if one was to research the Book of Galatians(chap.1,v1-9), you will find that even in the time of S(P)aul and the other apostels, the Gospel was already being perverted. One of the reasons for this was a person by the name of Simon the Magus...or Magician(Acts chap.8 v5-25). When the apostels all died, there occurred in the History of the Church what is known as the 30 year and 100 year gap of silence where nothing was heard from the Church. When the Church re-emerged, it was an entirely different Church...it was a counterfiet Church...and it was preaching a different, and counterfiet Gospel. If one was to study Church history, you will find that the Church became a worldly, Government (Rome) sanctioned religious body. In order to bring diverse, barbaric peoples together under this new State religion, the Church compromised and allowed all false teachings to creep in, they merely changed their names. The church became an apostate Church, teaching errors. All this can be found in most Catholic Encyclopedias, being that they (and the churches that came from them), are the instruments that has forced these errors on mankind...thus the Dark Ages, which never really ended. Zeus was the chief, or King of the Gods in Greek religous teachings. The romans loved Greek culture and copied it even down to their gods(Zeus and Jupiter was one and the same). If the Bible was translated from Hebrew Aramic to the Greek during the time of Roman rule, and the emerging power of an Apostate Church, who's name will the Gentiles be more familiar with?...the Hebrew Unknown God, or Zeus? One will find out after studying the History of the Church, that a lot of Councils were held, such as Nice1 and Nice2 etc. were a lot of things were incorporated into the Church, that the Early Church and apostels did not practice. Before you can truly understand the bible, you must understand History...Have you ever wondered what happened to the Pharisees and Sadducees?...they became Catholics.
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21-05-05, 05:39 PM
King Ptolemy ordered that a library be built, in it he would put all the literature from around the world. His intent was tohave the Hebrew scriptures for his collection not to change it. You guy's tend to look at that period of time as people going about doing things for sinister reasons all the time. Simon the magician of whom you spoke earlier wanted to know what was behind the power that he saw the apostles wield and so he clung to Paul even asking if he could purchase the Holy Ghost.
You also forget that Israel and the God of Israel became infamous to neighbouring countries and people's, so anything the enemyobtained through war they were not in a rush to destroy as often times they believed that they themself could obtain the power that moved with Israel, example the Ark of the covenant falling into the hands of a Philistine.
Hence to this day it is believed that the ark of the Covenant was not destroyed and is in Axum in Ethiopia.
The church as never died, it as gone underground, and yes the Catholic church as arisen, almost a replica but Jesus through his parables warns of the harlotwoman or harlotchurch and of the Seed church. The seed church is the true church, the one Jesus said the gates of hell willl not prevail against.
We could change the world, If God would give us the source code.
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