Take your time to read this,I know its long but its helpful.



Throughout history man has always had a deep attraction for the supernatural and the unseen. The existence of a world parallel to our own has always fascinated people. This world is commonly referred to as the spirit world, and almost every set of people have some concept of one. With some people, these spirits are no more then the souls of dead people- or ghosts. With others, spirits are either the forces of good or the forces of evil - both battling against one another to gain influence over humanity. However, both of these explanations are more in tune with folk tales and fantasy. The true explanation of such a world comes from Islam. Like every other way, Islam also claims to explain this realm of the unseen. It is from this realm that Islam explains to us about the world of the Jinn. The Islamic explanation of the Jinn provides us with so many answers to modem day mysteries. Without the knowledge of this world, the Muslims would become like the non-Muslims and be running around looking for any old answer to come their way. So, who or what are the Jinn?

Existence

The Jinn are beings created with free will, living on earth in a world parallel to mankind. The Arabic word Jinn is from the verb 'Janna' which means to hide or conceal. Thus, they are physically invisible from man as their description suggests. This invisibility is one of the reasons why some people have denied their existence. However, (as will be seen) the affect which the world of the Jinn has upon our world, is enough to refute this modern denial of one of Allah's creation. The origins of the Jinn can be traced from the Qur'an and the Sunnah. Allah says:

[align=center]"Indeed We created man from dried clay of black smooth mud. And We created the Jinn before that from the smokeless flame of fire"
(Surah Al-Hijr 15:26-27)[/align]
Thus the Jinn were created before man. As for their physical origin, then the Prophet (saws) has confirmed the above verse when he said: "The Angels were created from light and the Jinn from smokeless fire" [1]. It is this description of the Jinn which tells us so much about them. Because they were created from fire, their nature has generally been fiery and thus their relationship with man has been built upon this. Like humans, they too are required to worship Allah and follow Islam. Their purpose in life is exactly the same as ours, as Allah says:

[align=center]"I did not create the Jinn and mankind except to worship Me"
(Surah Ad-Dhariyat 51:56)[/align]
Jinns can thus be Muslims or non-Muslims. However, due to their fiery nature the majority of them are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Jinns form a part of the army of the most famous Jinn, Iblis- the Shaytan[2]. Consequently, these disbelieving Jinns are also called Shaytans (devils). As for the Jinns who become Muslims, then the first of them did so in the time of the Prophet (saws) when a group of them were amazed by the recitation of the Qur'an. Allah orders the Prophet to tell the people of this event:

[align=center]"Say (O' Muhammed): It has been revealed to me that a group of Jinn listened and said; 'Indeed we have heard a marvellous Qur'an. It guides unto righteousness so we have believed in it, and we will never make partners with our lord'"
(Surah Al-Jinn 72:1-2)[/align]
In many aspects of their world, the Jinn are very similar to us. They eat and drink, they marry, have children and they die. The life span however, is far greater then ours. Like us, they will also be subject to a Final Reckoning by Allah the Most High. They will be present with mankind on the Day of Judgement and will either go to Paradise or Hell.

Abilities

That which clearly distinguishes the Jinn from mankind, are their powers and abilities. Allah has given them these powers as a test for them. If they oppress others with them, then they will be held accountable. By knowing of their powers, we can often make sense of much of the mysteries which go on around us. One of the powers of the Jinn, is that they are able to take on any physical form they like. Thus, they can appear as humans, animals trees and anything else. Over the last few years the interest in the subject of aliens and UFO's has become heightened. Programmes such as the X-files and the Outer limits have increased the popularity of the theory that aliens exist. Thousands of people have sighted strange looking creatures all over the world. These sightings however, have still not proven substantially that aliens exist. Rather - and it seems more plausible all the sightings of such creatures were just Jinns parading in different forms. So the next time you see something that looks like E.T, its most probably just a wicked Jinn trying to scare and confuse you!

The ability to possess and take over the minds and bodies of other creatures is also a power which the Jinn have utilised greatly over the centuries. This however, is something which has been prohibited to them as it is a great oppression to possess another being. Human possession is something which has always brought about great attention. But the true knowledge of this subject is rare amongst the people. Over the last 3 decades the subject of possession has become very commercialised. During the 70's films such as The Exorcist and Rosemary's Baby were used to educate people about possession. However, because such institutions (the film industry) were heavily influenced by Christianity, knowledge of the subject was non-existent. Rather then educate people about Jinn possession, films such as The Exorcist just tended to scare the living daylights out of us![3] Only through Islam can we understand such a phenomena. We know as Muslims, that Jinns possess people for many reasons. Sometimes it is because the Jinn or its family has been hurt accidentally. It could be because the Jinn has fallen in love with the person. However, most of the time possession occurs because the Jinn is simply malicious and wicked. For this reason we have been told by the Prophet (saws) not to loiter in those places where the Jinns reside, e.g. graveyards, ruins, deserts, market places etc. We have also been commanded to recite the Qur'an frequently in our houses as the Prophet (saws) said: "Indeed, the shaytan flees from the house in which Surah Al-Baqarah (the 2nd chapter of the Qur'an) is recited" [4].

If a person does become possessed, then the name of Allah has to be used in expelling the Jinn. If we look at the practice of the Prophet and his companions, we find many duas (supplications) to exorcise the Jinn. All these duas invoke Allah to help the possessed person. How contrary this is to many modern-day exorcists. Many exorcists, Muslim and non-Muslim, often invoke the names of others besides Allah to exorcise the Jinn[5]. When the Jinn does leave, these people believe that their way was successful. However, this is a ploy of the Jinn, as it knows that if it obeys the exorcist, then it has succeeded in making him worship others besides Allah i.e. commit shirk. The Jinn often returns when the exorcist leaves, as it knows that nothing except the words of Allah can stop it from oppressing others.

It is not only humans which are possessed, but also animals, trees and other objects. By doing this, the evil Jinn hope to make people worship others besides Allah. The possession of idols is one way to do this. Not so long ago the world-wide phenomenon of Hindu idols drinking milk, shocked the world. From Bombay to London, Delhi to California, countless idols were lapping up milk. Ganesh[6] the elephant god, Hanuman the monkey god and even Shiva lingam, the male private organ(!), all seemed to guzzle down the milk as if there was no tomorrow! Unfortunately people were taken in by this (including Muslims) and many flocked to feed (?) the Hindu gods. Anyone who knows about Jinn possession, will undoubtedly know that this is a classic attempt to make people commit shirk. And it worked, as many people started to worship these lifeless pieces of wood and marble. Anyone with half a brain would say to themselves, 'why on earth does a god need to be fed?!! Surely if Ganesh, Hanuman or Shiva were divine then they wouldn't need feeding?' However, such common sense seemed to be lacking as the Jinns played havoc with these gullible people.

The Occult

Through their powers of flying and invisibility, the Jinn are the chief component in occult activities. Voodoo, Black magic, Poltergeists, Witchcraft and Mediums can all be explained through the world of the Jinn. Likewise, so can the illusions and feats of magicians. Because the Jinn can traverse huge distances over a matter of seconds, their value to magicians is great. In return for helping them in their magic, the Jinns often ask for the magicians to sell their souls to them and even to Iblis. Thus the magicians take the Jinn and Iblis as lords besides Allah. In our day, some of the feats performed by magicians and entertainers are without doubt from the assistance of the Jinn. Making the Statue of Liberty disappear, flying across the Grand Canyon and retrieving a ship from the Bermuda Triangle[7], have all been done by the Jewish magician David Copperfield. There is NO way that a man could do such things without the assistance of the Jinn. It would not be surprising therefore, if David Copperfield had sold his soul to Iblis himself. Because of their involvement with the Jinn, and its result in shirk, the Prophet (saws) said: "The prescribed punishment for the magician is that he be executed by the sword" [8]. Some may argue that this is barbaric, but if, the likes of David Copperfield truly had powers, then they could just put their heads back on again!!

One of the most frequent activities associated with the Jinn, is fortune telling. Before the advent of the Prophet (saws) fortune-tellers and soothsayers were wide spread. These people would use their associates from the Jinn to find out about the future. The Jinns would go to the lowest heaven and listen to the Angels conversing amongst themselves about events of the Future which they heard from Allah. The Jinns would then inform the fortune-tellers. This is why before the time of the Prophet (saws) many fortune-tellers were very accurate in their predictions. However, upon the Prophet's arrival the heavens were guarded intensely by the Angels, and any Jinn who tried to listen was attacked by meteors (shooting stars):

[align=center]"And We have guarded it (the heavens) from every accursed devil, except one who is able to snatch a hearing and he is pursued by a brightly burning flame"
(Surah Al-Hijr 15:18)[/align]
The Prophet (saws) also said: "They (the Jinn) would pass the information back down until it reaches the lips of a magician or forrtune-teller Sometimes a meteor would overtake them before they could pass it on. If they passed it on before being struck, they would add to it a hundred lies" [9]. Thus, it is clear from this as to how fortune-tellers get predictions of the future right. It is also evident as to why they get so many wrong. Men like Nostradamus[10] are an example, as some of his predictions of the future were correct whilst many were completely wrong. Unfortunately, the amount of fortune telling which occurs amongst the Muslims is also increasing. By visiting Muslim lands such as Morocco, one is able to see as to how much inter Jinn-fortune-teller activity there really is. If you look up at the sky on a clear night in Morocco, you will see the heavens ablaze with shooting stars! A clear display of the devils being chased away from the heavens.

Fortune-tellers also operate through the Qareen. The Qareen is the Jinn companion which is assigned to every human being. It is this Jinn which whispers to our base desires and constantly tries to divert us from righteousness. The Prophet (saws) said: "Everyone of you has been assigned a companion from the Jinn. The companions asked: Even you O' Messenger of Allah? And the Prophet replied: Even me, except that Allah has helped me against him and he has submitted. Now he only tells me to do good" [11]. Because the Qareen is with a person all his life, it knows all that has happened to the person from the cradle to the grave. By making contact with the Qareen, the fortune-teller is thus able to make out that it is he who knows about the person. He looks in his crystal ball or the palm of a person and proceeds to amaze him with knowledge which no one else knows[12]. The severity of going to a fortune-teller is such that the Prophet (saws) said: "The prayer of one who approaches a fortune-teller and asks him about anything, will not be accepted for forty days or nights" [13] and: "Whosoever approaches a fortune-teller and believes in what he says, has disbelieved in what was revealed to Muhammed" [14]

The effects of the Jinn are not just limited to fortune-tellers. Other activities such as oujia boards and seances, which are used to contact the dead, are manipulated by the Jinn. 'Are you there Charlie? Speak to us Charlie!!' are the sort of words spoken by anxious relatives (names are obviously different!) seeking to make contact with their loved ones. And it is when the Jinn starts to talk and communicate as 'Charlie', that the people are truly fooled[15].

One of the biggest manipulations of the Jinn is through visions. Through these visions the Jinns are more likely to lead people away from the worship of Allah then any other way. When a person sees a vision in front of his eyes it is something which is very hard to explain away. Only by having knowledge of the world of the Jinn and conviction in Allah, can a person fight such a trial. The countless numbers of visions of Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary over the centuries has been a popular choice for the devils. It almost seems as if leading Christians astray is the most easiest trick for the Jinns! Not only are Christians fooled by these visions, but often the Jinns possess and begin to talk from their voices. To the Christians this is known as the tongues of the Angels and thus a proof for their faith. However, the amount of unintelligible nonsense and rubbish which is heard is a clear proof that this is in fact the tongues of the devils! For other people, visions of their parents or relatives are commonplace. By taking on the form of peoples parents, the Jinns can convince people that the souls of dead people still mix with the people of the earth. This is why so many people believe in ghosts.

The onslaught of satanic visions has also hit the Muslims. Many Muslims claim to have seen visions of the Prophet Muhammed (saws) and even Allah! By doing this, Shaytan is able to lead astray the weak Muslims. Through such visions, Muslims are often told that the commands of Islam are not applicable to them. The Jinns tell them that Prayer, Fasting, Hajj etc. are not obligatory for them. It is a great deception and unfortunately one which has been very effective. The extent of satanic visions still continues to this day. The recent death of Diana Princess of Wales sparked off great love and adoration for this woman. In fact the grief of the British people was such, that it was as if Diana was something divine. No sooner had the mourning of Diana reached its peak, that visions of her were already being seen at Hampton Court Palace! If these visions did occur, the desire of Iblis and his army of Jinn to capitalise on this event, was evident. Such visions are clear attempts by Iblis to lead mankind away from the path of Allah [16].

The world of the Jinn is one which is both sinister and intriguing. By knowing of this world we can explain many of the mysteries and issues which bother us. By doing this we can avoid the extremes which the people have gone to; nothing being more extreme then worshipping others besides Allah. By learning the Tawheed of Allah, we defend ourselves from these hidden allies of Iblis:

[align=center]"Indeed he (Iblis) and his tribe watch you from a position where you cannot see them"
(Surah Al-A'raf 7:27)[/align]
Maybe there is a Jinn sitting in the corner of your room right now, or even one behind you. If so, then how will you deal with this creation of Allah? Learn Islam properly and you will be able to deal with all of Allah's creation - and not just the Jinn. By becoming true Muslims and followers of Islam, the fear of Iblis, Jinns and anything else will leave us - nothing will touch the Believer unless Allah wills.

smoking-devileavesdropping on angels

smoking-devilhit by comets

smoking-devilYou can not be serious!

smoking-devilHowever i do agree with cutting david copperfield's head off...

Note neither Sit al-Banal or Blacknet condones the beheading of david copperfield....even if he is a weird shade of orange.



You're interpretation of the relationship between man and spirit is bothcrude, primitive and only fit for scarring little children. As with christians, you take the smallest piece of occult knowledge then wrap it in foolishness.

You would do better to read Harry Potter.....its will make more sense.

And take this rubbish with you...



"""Jinns can thus be Muslims or non-Muslims. However, due to their fiery nature the majority of them are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Jinns form a part of the army of the most famous Jinn, Iblis- the Shaytan[2]. Consequently, these disbelieving Jinns are also called Shaytans (devils). As for the Jinns who become Muslims, then the first of them did so in the time of the Prophet (saws) when a group of them were amazed by the recitation of the Qur'an. Allah orders the Prophet to tell the people of this event:


In many aspects of their world, the Jinn are very similar to us. They eat and drink, they marry, have children and they die. The life span however, is far greater then ours. Like us, they will also be subject to a Final Reckoning by Allah the Most High. They will be present with mankind on the Day of Judgement and will either go to Paradise or Hell.

That which clearly distinguishes the Jinn from mankind, are their powers and abilities. Allah has given them these powers as a test for them. If they oppress others with them, then they will be held accountable. By knowing of their powers, we can often make sense of much of the mysteries which go on around us. One of the powers of the Jinn, is that they are able to take on any physical form they like. Thus, they can appear as humans, animals trees and anything else. Over the last few years the interest in the subject of aliens and UFO's has become heightened. Programmes such as the X-files and the Outer limits have increased the popularity of the theory that aliens exist. Thousands of people have sighted strange looking creatures all over the world. These sightings however, have still not proven substantially that aliens exist. Rather - and it seems more plausible all the sightings of such creatures were just Jinns parading in different forms. So the next time you see something that looks like E.T, its most probably just a wicked Jinn trying to scare and confuse you!

The ability to possess and take over the minds and bodies of other creatures is also a power which the Jinn have utilised greatly over the centuries. This however, is something which has been prohibited to them as it is a great oppression to possess another being. Human possession is something which has always brought about great attention. But the true knowledge of this subject is rare amongst the people. Over the last 3 decades the subject of possession has become very commercialised. During the 70's films such as The Exorcist and Rosemary's Baby were used to educate people about possession. However, because such institutions (the film industry) were heavily influenced by Christianity, knowledge of the subject was non-existent. Rather then educate people about Jinn possession, films such as The Exorcist just tended to scare the living daylights out of us![3] Only through Islam can we understand such a phenomena. We know as Muslims, that Jinns possess people for many reasons. Sometimes it is because the Jinn or its family has been hurt accidentally. It could be because the Jinn has fallen in love with the person. However, most of the time possession occurs because the Jinn is simply malicious and wicked. For this reason we have been told by the Prophet (saws) not to loiter in those places where the Jinns reside, e.g. graveyards, ruins, deserts, market places etc. We have also been commanded to recite the Qur'an frequently in our houses as the Prophet (saws) said: "Indeed, the shaytan flees from the house in which Surah Al-Baqarah (the 2nd chapter of the Qur'an) is recited" [4].

It would not be surprising therefore, if David Copperfield had sold his soul to Iblis himself. Because of their involvement with the Jinn, and its result in shirk, the Prophet (saws) said: "The prescribed punishment for the magician is that he be executed by the sword" [8]. Some may argue that this is barbaric, but if, the likes of David Copperfield truly had powers, then they could just put their heads back on again!!

The Jinns would go to the lowest heaven and listen to the Angels conversing amongst themselves about events of the Future which they heard from Allah. The Jinns would then inform the fortune-tellers. This is why before the time of the Prophet (saws) many fortune-tellers were very accurate in their predictions. However, upon the Prophet's arrival the heavens were guarded intensely by the Angels, and any Jinn who tried to listen was attacked by meteors (shooting stars):

The Prophet (saws) also said: "They (the Jinn) would pass the information back down until it reaches the lips of a magician or forrtune-teller Sometimes a meteor would overtake them before they could pass it on. If they passed it on before being struck, they would add to it a hundred lies" [9]. Thus, it is clear from this as to how fortune-tellers get predictions of the future right. """

Your opinion, please.

Does "the Jinn", refer to a "spirit", only?

If so, on what do you base this?

From my lmited understanding...

Jinn used to be physical, but now they are primary spirits.

"Jinn" is just an Arabic name for the giants who lived on this planet years before God placed man on it to be their successors. They were responsible for the great cities and high-tech civilizations that were built on this planet long ago that scientists and archeologist are finding all over the place.

They were the kings we read about in ancient manuscripts who lived hundreds of years.

Many of them survived physically after man was created and they mostly dwelt up in mountains and fortresses. Numerous battles between men and jinn took place in the past until most of them were killed of.


In Hebrew, theyare referred to as the Nephilim.

In Sumeria, they were refered to as the Anunnaki.


But they were all giant highly sophisticated physical beings who ruled this plante before God made us the new rulers.

I BELIEVE THE STORY OF ADAM AND EVE IS NOT THE STORY OF THE FIRST HUMANS INSTEAD, I BELIEVE IT IS THE STORY OF THE "MAKING", OF THE CAUCASIANS.

How Does the Bible Explain Fossil Ages Over 6,000 Years (Genesis 1:2)?
Scientists often date fossils such as dinosaur bones and those termed "human" or "early man" thousands, tens of thousands, or even millions of years before the creation of Adam. Although we understand the interest generated by this subject, it is not the primary duty of the church to enter a field that properly belongs to geologists, paleontologists, and anthropologists. None of the facts discovered by science contradict the Bible, though certainly many of the theories proposed by scientists to explain their facts are at odds with God's Word!
God's church has been commissioned primarily to announce the good news of the soon-coming Kingdom of God to humanity now on earth—those descended from Adam, who the Bible shows was created nearly 6,000 years ago. As a part of that message, we explain the fact that there was a previous world of immense duration (revealed in simplest form in Genesis 1:1-2) over which angels were given rule. Please see Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:11-16.
Isaiah 45:18 states clearly that God did not create the world a chaotic wasteland: "Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited. . . ." It is evident, however, that the previous world ended in chaos and destruction because of the rebellion of the angels (Genesis 1:2; Jude 6). Whatever forms of breathing, physical life that existed at the time of that titanic destruction would have died in it (Isaiah 14:12; Luke 10:18). Then followed a week of re-creation (Psalm 104:30). On the sixth day of that week, God created man and endowed him with human spirit. Any accurately dated fossils older than 6,000 years would consequently be pre-Adamic.
The Bible is God's revelation of knowledge that man cannot discover by himself—primarily spiritual knowledge concerning the purpose of life and the origin of creation. Basically, the Bible deals with the 7,000-year plan of God for the descendants of Adam and has only sketchy glimpses of what occurred before—or what shall come after this period.
From the Bible we know that Adam and Eve were the first humans made in the image of God and given a human spirit to make possible the wondrous functioning of the human mind. They were created for the purpose of enlarging the Family of God. This is the important knowledge about human life—the incredible human potential—which can be learned only from God's revelation, not from the fossil record.

http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuse...e/CT/BQA/k/134
=============================================



How old is the earth?
Quick-read this article:[/b]
The Bible is clear that Adam, the first man, lived only 6000 years ago. Adam was created on the sixth day of God's Creation Week, so the earth must be only 6000 years old too.



The following timeline by Theodore Pederson appeared in The Christian News, March 26, 2001, page 18.

How old is the earth?
If we go back 500 years, we come to the time of Martin Luther (born in 1483), and Columbus, who “sailed the ocean blue in 1492.�

If we go back 1000 years, we come to the time of Leif Ericson, Christian explorer, who preached Christ to pagans. (World Book, 1983, vol.6, page 270.)

If we go back 2000 years, we come to the birth of Jesus Christ. Our calendar is dated from His birth.

If we go back 3000 years, we come to the time of David and Solomon; they ruled Israel about 1000BC.

If we go back 4000 years, we come to the time of Abraham (2000BC), ancestor of Arabs and Jews.

If we go back 5000 years, we come to the time of Enoch, who “walked with God 300 years … and God took him [into Heaven].�

If we go back 6000 years, we come to the time of Creation, and Adam and Eve (4004BC). Luke, evangelist and historian, records Adam as the first man (Luke 3:38).

The earth is about 6000 years old. Let God's people rejoice in Him who made them! (Psalm 149:2)

We would add that although many people don't accept this timeline of history, they have difficulty deciding exactly when they would start to disagree with it.

• Was King David real? The Bible says he was. Again, there is no reason to doubt it.
• Was Abraham real? The Bible says he was. There seems no reason to doubt this either.
• Was Enoch real? The Bible says he was. There is no reason to think the Bible has suddenly lapsed into fiction when the other people were genuine historical figures.
• Was Adam real? Well, Enoch was a son of Cain, who was a son of Adam. So if Enoch was real there is no reason to think that his father Cain wasn't, or that his grandfather Adam wasn't. They were only two generations away.

And Adam was the first man, created in the first week of the earth's existence.

He lived only about 6000 years ago.


http://www.users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/earthsage.html





[align=left]6,000 years

[/align]


Elijah Muhammad(pbuh) taught that

a) Blacks have no said birth record and

b) Caucasians were "made" about 6,000 years ago.

[/size]

The Truth 007


[align=right]Post #35[/align]



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QUOTE
How bout this, you tell me where it say they CAN be seen.......

006.130
YUSUFALI: "O ye assembly of Jinns and men! came there not unto you messengers from amongst you, setting forth unto you My signs, and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?" They will say: "We bear witness against ourselves." It was the life of this world that deceived them. So against themselves will they bear witness that they rejected Faith.


Do you believe that Allah sent messengers to those that CAN'T be seen?



007.038
YUSUFALI: He will say: "Enter ye in the company of the peoples who passed away before you - men and jinns, - into the Fire." Every time a new people enters, it curses its sister-people (that went before), until they follow each other, all into the Fire. Saith the last about the first: "Our Lord! it is these that misled us: so give them a double penalty in the Fire." He will say: "Doubled for all" : but this ye do not

IN THIS VERSE, CAN YOU NOT SEE?


007.179
YUSUFALI: Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).



017.088
YUSUFALI: Say: "If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support.

THIS IMPLIES THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO WRITE.


034.012
YUSUFALI: And to Solomon (We made) the Wind (obedient): Its early morning (stride) was a month's (journey), and its evening (stride) was a month's (journey); and We made a Font of molten brass to flow for him; and there were Jinns that worked in front of him, by the leave of his Lord, and if any of them turned aside from our command, We made him taste of the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.

SURELY YOU ARE NOT STATING, SOLOMON COULD NOT SEE THEM!


PLUS, MANY MORE...

Well it makes me see why a lot of Muslim Arabics see America as the great Satan and you read the bible and you can see why everyone meddles in Middle Eastern Affairs LOL

It is hard to believe two books written on love and morality could be at the center of so much strife after being interpreted by the ignorance man...... LOL

Jinns look like shadows with one important characteristic there feet are turned backwards.