The Transition from Ancestor Worship - Page 4

Omaar · (#76 (**permalink**))

Thoth

I think I can address this...On the following website, you can download pictures of the timeline and blow them up to view the timelines of the supposed creation 4004 BCE to current.

But where did these people get these dates from?

Certainly not from any holy book or scriptures because the scripture don't mention dates.

It's easy to say the Exodus happened yesterday, then point to the fact that the Israelites weren't in Egypt yesterday.
They are framing their own argument.

Furthermore, I have to ask what you consider before Egypt? The oral tradition, and the time the Sphinx was built, is at least 10,000 years old. I am interested to know what civilization had the Isis & Osiris story in Asia "before it was in Egypt"?

Again, here we go with "dates".

How do we know all this occured atleast 10,000 years ago?

But to answer you question, they got it from the Sumerians who had an older civilization.

Infact, Ra/Marduk was sent from Sumeria to help settle the land known as Kemet.

I would be happy to, but I do not know which particular information you need me to source for you. I have laid out a lot of material.

I was speaking more specifically about the information you provided in the indented format about 4 posts up. But it's not necesary. I was just curious to know where it came from.

You are correct, I mis-typed. But the Bible does say that Pharaohs army went after them in their chariots after they had left. This why I referenced the Pharaoh Kamose's stele which describes his military campaigns to drive out the Hyksos kings.

You must understand that Egypt had been conquered by Asians (Canaanites) before this particular group of Asians (Assyrians) had gained control over Egypt.

Infact, I'm sure you read where the first time the Asians were driven out of Egypt they went north and built Jerusalem for themselves. Perhaps these Asians were the first to introduce Egypt to the horses and chariots.

But more than likely Egyptians already had them and didn't need Asians to bring that type of technology. I see it as more white washing and attributing Egyptian technology to outsiders.

First and foremost, the Hyksos were not a race. They were a group of consolidated kings in Asia from the same area (Canaan) as the Hebrews. Furthermore, archaelogical evidence excavated at the Hyksos capital of Avaris clearly shows that they spoke the same language as the Hebrews at the time. You can reference the book Hyksos and Israelite Cities by W.M. Flinders Petrie (a world-renown Egyptologist who physically excavated many of these sites) for that one.

The Hebrews were a clan of Sumerians from Ur (southern Iraq) and most of the Hyksos were Western Semitics from Canaan and Assyria.
Althought the Hyksos weren't a race, none of them were the same race as the Hebrews.

Both the Egyptians and Hebrews were dark skinned and actually had a pretty good relationship with eachother.

Shemsi en Tehuti · (#77 (**permalink**))

Omaar wrote:

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But where did these people get these dates from?

Certainly not from any holy book or scriptures because the scripture don't mention dates.

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It is quite easy. We know when the Roman empire was in existence, as well as when Pontius Pilate was governing Palestine. We also know from Hebrew documents when the Jewish-Roman war of 70 AD. There are plentyof known events we can use to reference the timeline. Doing so, the Bible says the Earth was created in 4004 BCE. It doesn't use dates, but it only takes alittle deductive reasoning, as well as common sense (not saying you don't have any).

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Omaar wrote: But to answer you question, they got it from the Sumerians who had an older civilization.

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Infact, Ra/Marduk was sent from Sumeria to help settle the land known as Kemet.

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Therecord ofKmt/Egypt states they came from the interior of Africa(from the Ethiopian direction), not north. In fact, before 3000 BCE,Lower Egypt was not even developed and was covered by water until Pharaoh Menes used irrigation techniques to clear the water.The archaeological remains clearly show that the artifacts get older and older as one excavates more southern into the Sudan and Ethiopia, and some even furthersouth. Why whould the Sumerians travel all the way south to the interior of Africa just to begin building a civilization toslowly progress back north?

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Basically, I needyou to reference the physical evidence ofyour statement, for it contradicts the overwhelming archaeological evidence to the contrary.

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Omaar wrote: Y

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ou must understand that Egypt had been conquered by Asians (Canaanites) before this particular group of Asians (Assyrians) had gained control over Egypt.

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There were many Asiatic & Indo-European attempts to conquer Egypt before the Hyksos era, but I think Cheikh Anta Diop does a good job of showing in his book African Origin of Civilization that Egypt fended them off pretty well. Basically, I don't think the evidence shows Egypt to have been conquered before the Hyksos era. If so, you will have to show me because I think Diop's research states the contrary.

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Omaar wrote: Infact, I'm sure you read where the first time the Asians were driven out of Egypt they went north and built Jerusalem for themselves. Perhaps these Asians were the first to introduce Egypt to the horses and chariots.

But more than likely Egyptians already had them and didn't need Asians to bring that type of technology. I see it as more white washing and attributing Egyptian technology to outsiders.

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I am unsure of whenJerusalem was built. There is no physical evidence of it until about 1500 BCE, but the Asian invasions before the Hyksos happenedabout 500 years prior.

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Omaar wrote: The Hebrews were a clan of Sumerians from Ur (southern Iraq) and most of the Hyksos were Western Semitics from Canaan and Assyria.
Althought the Hyksos weren't a race, none of them were the same race as the Hebrews.

Both the Egyptians and Hebrews were dark skinned and actually had a pretty good relationship with eachother.

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I honestly hate the word race. I do not even think "race" exists. In my opinion, there was no Semitic "race", Hebrew "race", Canaanite "race", or Assyrian "race". The term "Semitic" comes from "semi" (meaning half), where they were half Black/African and half Indo-European. The majority gene pool of Canaanites have been shown to be mostly African, yet many other "Semitic" stocks that invaded Egypt (Assyrians, Hyksos, Hebrews, etc.) were shown to have more Indo-European characteristics, but they all were still mixed to an extent. Therefore, all of them were probably brown to dark skinned people.

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My point is that I don't think you are achievign a more precise argument by concentrating on race. It is a concept introduced by Western Europeans with an inferiority complex and has plagued the fields of science (or archaeology), history, and religion intofrivolousambiguity.

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--Thoth B3

Omoshango · (#78 (**permalink**))

Omaar said:

"God orders us to worship Him and Him only, and that transescends race andculture."

Well, let's look at who this "God" is that "orders us to worship Him and Him only."

First this "God" acknowledges the existence of other Gods: "Thou shall have no other God but me...For I the Lord thy God am a JEALOUS God..."

Note that this God is JEALOUS.

Last time I checked, jealousy was NOT one of the attributes of the Most High. Omaar can probably list all ninety-nine attributes. You will NOT find jealousy among them. Besides, jealousy is inconsistent with everything we know about the Most High from Judeo-Christian-Islamic teachings.

"...visiting the iniquity of the father upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation..."

Vindictiveness is also antithetical to "The Forgiver" and "The Forgiving" attributes of the Most High.

So which "God" is speaking here, demanding that everybody worship him alone? And why?

The Bible refers to a "God of this world," not the Universe, butthis materialistic, man-made "world" or socio-politico-economic system.Doesn't take much to figure out who that "God" is.

Hint: one of his chief attributes is jealousy, along with hate, envy, materialism, and an obssession with domination and power over others.

This "world,"based onruthless capitalism, slavery and white supremacy, is surely his, is it not?

Be careful that u're not deceived into worshipping the chief fallen angel as "the one true God."

All the world's older religions that predated Christianity and Islam by thousands of years are based on what u call "ancestor worship."

The idea of deceased grandparents looking out for you makes a lot more sense than an all-seeing, all-knowing heavenly father watching over you. The ancestorsdo not claim to be omnipotent or omniscient. There are limitations to what they can do, hence bad things happen to good people.

Where is the omniscient, omnipotent heavenly father when a five year old girl is raped and murdered?Or when Katrina's victims were crying out to Him for a whole week, only to lose their lives in the end?

If God is the father of all men, wouldn't that make Himan ancestor?

What makes monotheism "better" or more "advanced" than polytheism? Except in the context of white supremacy?