The Transition from Ancestor Worship

Omaar · (#1 (**permalink**))

First let me say, my aim in starting this thread is not to promote or condemn the practice commonly known as ancestor worship, but to provide a little clarity of where it stands according to Biblical scriptures for those who don't know.

In the King James version of the Bible we find these commandments being given to the Children of Israel:

Leviticus 19:26 "Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times. 27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. 28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD. "

Leviticus 19: "31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God. "

Leviticus 20:" And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people. "

Deuteronomy 18: "9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. 13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. 14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do."

That term "familiar spirit" has often been misunderstood to mean some sort of agent demon that has personally attached itself to a witch or conjurer. But in actuality a familiar spirit meansa "family spirit".

In other words, an ancestor.

It must be understood that worshipping and honoring one's dead ancestors isn't just an African traditon but a tradition that is found all over the world from the Korea to New Zealand to South America.

They all believe that when one's ancestor's die their spirits remain on Earth but on another plane and we are able to make contact with them by following certain rituals and protocols or taking certain herbs.

Before Moses led them out of Egypt and gave them a set of laws condemning the consultation of ancestral spirits or practicing magic, the Hebrews had a religion similar to not only that of the Egyptians and other Africans but also the rest of the world and regularly consulted spirits through trances, herbal usage, and meditation.

....the same thing you find happening today among many rural indigenous and communities.

Many shave thier heads, tatoo and cut themselve for religious purposes, take hallucinagenic herbs that make them "see visions". Many still offer drinks, sweets, gifts, and wine to their gods and ancestors as a form of worship and honor.

You see this in Voodoo and Santeria.

In parts of the East like India you still have people who sacrifice to fire gods and walk on hot coals ot show their dedication to their personal gods and ancestors.

Does anyone know why these practices were condemned by the monotheistic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam?

Does anyone know why witches and sorcerers were often ordered killed or put out of the community by these religions?

The Watcher · (#2 (**permalink**))

To make Africans hate themselves and their own cultures and be more readily assimilated into the peoples who spread the bible textsniceone.gif

It still works now. They did it in Europe too incidently, the wiped out and took from those religions which predated and existed before them and then proclaimed the original religions to be heathen and unclean. The practitioners of which should be looked on as savages...

It affects us more so Ommar because you get some with their religions coming back to Africa and the Africans who kept their original true religions and calling them savages or percieving them in that way, so much has their own thinking been trained.

I no longer have problems with the religions people follow my man, but if you are going to go back and insult Africans worshipping African religions then I think that is retarded regardless of what Jewish holy books say.

One Zero Seven · (#3 (**permalink**))

Salaam to all.

I would like to ask afew questions:

1) WHAT is "Ancestor Worship"?

2) HOW are we to understand or interpret the word "WORSHIP"?

3) WHO are the "ANCESTORS", and WHY are they worthy of WORSHIP?

RM

Shariff · (#4 (**permalink**))

One Zero Seven wrote:

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Salaam to all.

I would like to ask a couple of questions.

1) HOW are we to understand or interpret the word "WORSHIP"?

2) WHO are the "ANCESTORS", and WHY are they worthy of WORSHIP?

RM

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The ancestors are "God," the Divine essence incarnated, first in the Nile Valley.

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Ancient Khemet and Nubia were founded by these Gods, who built the pyramids and gave the world the sciences.

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Mathematics and architecture, geometry and physics were not "developed," as western scholars want you to believe. They could not be "developed" or created as they are simply expressions of infinite universal laws. These sciences were brought to earth by the very first people on earth, the "Gods."

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The ancestors are US. They reincarnate through us and our descendants in a cyclical continuumcomprised of family, ancestors, andOrishas, or "Gods."

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They are who we are before we are born, or "come to earth,"from the spiritual plane.

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We do not "worship" them in the sense of some spook God in the sky. We serve, revere, honor and celebrate the ancestors inrituals that replenish, recycle, rejuvenate and reinforce the spiritual connection with our "higher selves" that has been in decline ever since the first Gods came to earth as human beings.

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Think it was Chiek Anta Diop that said religion is the deification of a people's culture. Judaism, Islam and Christianity are examples of that, the deification of western and Arab culture.

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They're simply borrowed from the original Nile Valley cosmogolgy, and adapted to their cultural mores. They have very little relevance to me, as they don't teach me about myself, what makes me the way I am, what makes other people act the way they do. They add absolutely nothing to the body of knowledge left by the Nile Valley cultures and dispersed throughout Africa invarious forms.

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Believe whatever u like.But I will NEVER diss my ancestors in favor of some white man's religion. And I was raised Episcopilian!

Omaar · (#5 (**permalink**))

Drunk

To make Africans hate themselves and their own cultures and be more readily assimilated into the peoples who spread the bible texts

But how can you say it was made to make AFRICANS hate themselves when it wasn't originally given to Africans?

These laws were first given to the HEBREWS who were Asians, and the Hebrews first forcibly enforced them on the CANAANITES and other people in the land they drove out...who were also Asians.

They also condemned the Greeks and Romans for these practices.

So while I agree that many whites used the bible and Christianity to make Africans hate themselves; that wasn't the aim and intention of the scriptures themselves.

It still works now. They did it in Europe too incidently, the wiped out and took from those religions which predated and existed before them and then proclaimed the original religions to be heathen and unclean. The practitioners of which should be looked on as savages...

Right, they did it in Europe to.....so this can't just be some "anti-African" propaganda.

Those scriptures up there mention nothing about race or ethnicity, it simpy orders that certain rituals and practices not be tolerated.

It affects us more so Ommar because you get some with their religions coming back to Africa and the Africans who kept their original true religions and calling them savages or percieving them in that way, so much has their own thinking been trained.

Ok, I see your point.

But IF some of those practices are indeed wrong and "savage"...IF they are....then why shouldn't their own brothers and sisters show them a better way?

Why must we continue to wallow in errored tradition, simply out of tradition?

Time line

LMAO @ the last paragraph. I think it is great that you reveal this pattern of demonizing ancient religions so that newer ones can flourish with little competition. People have to be able to see themselves in this continuous flow of change rather than seeing practices/culture as static and categorized under "right" or "wrong" "good" or "evil" because the labels too change with time.

Do you think there were any valid reasons for these ancient religions and practices to be demonized?

Would you totally accept and allow everthing that these anceint religions practiced to be allowed to flourish in your community today....like sacrificing your children to fire gods and receiving cuts and tatoos on your flesh in honor of the dead?

Curses and poisoning people are scary enough, now imaging people calling down spirits and devils to attack or possess other people in the community....I wouldn't want to live in that society.

One Zero Seven · (#6 (**permalink**))

Salaam (Peace)...

Shariff wrote:

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Think it was Chiek Anta Diop that said religion is the deification of a people's culture. Judaism, Islam and Christianity are examples of that, the deification of western and Arab culture.

Before I ask you to try to more directly answer the questions posed, I would like to provide more commentary from the great Chiekh Anta Diop:

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Cheikh Anta Diop

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The primary reason for the success of Islam in Black Africa, with one exception, consequently stems from the fact that it was promulgated peacefully, at first by solitary Arabo-Berber Travelers to certain Black kings and notables, who then spread it about them to those under their jurisdiction... What is to be emphasized here is the peaceful nature of this conversion, regardless of the legend surrounding it. (Precolonial Black Africa, page 163.)

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African religions, more or less forgotten, were in the process of atrophying [dying] and being emptied of their spiritual content, their former deep metaphysics. The jumble of empty forms they had left behind could not compete with Islam on the moral or rational level. And it was on that latter level of rationality that the victory of Islam was most striking. That was the fourth cause of its success. (Ibid, page 166)

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During the period of our study, from the third to the seventeenth centuries, not one conquest was ever launched by way of the Nile...Nor was there ever an Arab conquest of Mozambique or any other East African country. (Ibid, page 101)

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The Arabs in these areas, who became great religious leaders, arrived as everywhere else individually and settled in peacefully, they owe their influence and latter acceptance to spiritual and religious virtues. (Ibid, page 102)

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The Arab conquests dear to sociologists are necessary to their theories but did not exist in reality. To this day no reliable historical documents substantiate such theories. (Ibid, page 102)

Omaar · (#7 (**permalink**))

107

Salaam to all.

I would like to ask a few questions:

1) WHAT is "Ancestor Worship"?
2) HOW are we to understand or interpret the word "WORSHIP"?
3) WHO are the "ANCESTORS", and WHY are they worthy of WORSHIP?

Salaam

The Webster's dictionary defines WORSHIP as:

Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship
1 chiefly British : a person of importance -- used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
2 : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3 : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4 : extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar>

So if you're offering reverence, admiration , and devotion to something or someone and EXPRESSING it in teh form of creed and ritual...you are worshiping it or them.

If you're doing this to and ancestor, they you are practicing ancestor worship.

You asked who are the ancestors, ancestors are relatives who have died.

Other people can give thier own reason for their worship or lack thereof of the ancestors but I personally believe no on deserves worship but the Creator.
I respect my ancestors, but I worship only Allah.

Shariff

Believe whatever u like. But I will NEVER diss my ancestors in favor of some white man's religion. And I was raised Episcopilian!

I mean no disrespect but that statement pushed me to ask you 2 questions:

Why do you have an Arabic name?

Do you consider yourself a Muslim?

Shariff · (#8 (**permalink**))

One Zero Seven wrote:

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Salaam (Peace)...

Shariff wrote:

Quote:

Quote:

Think it was Chiek Anta Diop that said religion is the deification of a people's culture. Judaism, Islam and Christianity are examples of that, the deification of western and Arab culture.

Before I ask you to try to more directly answer the questions posed, I would like to provide more commentary from the great Chiekh Anta Diop:

Quote:

Cheikh Anta Diop

Quote:

The primary reason for the success of Islam in Black Africa, with one exception, consequently stems from the fact that it was promulgated peacefully, at first by solitary Arabo-Berber Travelers to certain Black kings and notables, who then spread it about them to those under their jurisdiction... What is to be emphasized here is the peaceful nature of this conversion, regardless of the legend surrounding it. (Precolonial Black Africa, page 163.)

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African religions, more or less forgotten, were in the process of atrophying [dying] and being emptied of their spiritual content, their former deep metaphysics. The jumble of empty forms they had left behind could not compete with Islam on the moral or rational level. And it was on that latter level of rationality that the victory of Islam was most striking. That was the fourth cause of its success. (Ibid, page 166)

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During the period of our study, from the third to the seventeenth centuries, not one conquest was ever launched by way of the Nile...Nor was there ever an Arab conquest of Mozambique or any other East African country. (Ibid, page 101)

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The Arabs in these areas, who became great religious leaders, arrived as everywhere else individually and settled in peacefully, they owe their influence and latter acceptance to spiritual and religious virtues. (Ibid, page 102)

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The Arab conquests dear to sociologists are necessary to their theories but did not exist in reality. To this day no reliable historical documents substantiate such theories. (Ibid, page 102)

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I agree with most of that. That still doesn't invalidate whatever religions predated Al Islam and coexists with it today.

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Even the largely Islamic nations of Senegal, Gambia, Mali, Northern Nigeria, Guinea, etc. still adhere to their age-old traditions.

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The most devout muslims in those countries still honor their ancestors and their ancestral traditions.

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The main reason they embraced Islam in the first place was that they saw no conflict between Din Islam and the ways of their fathers.It's

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safe to say that the latter holds more relevance for them in THIS life. The same holds true for those Africans in the New World that embraced Christianity so readily. They saw through the dogma and doctrine and recognized it for what it was at its core-African!

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And I did answer your questions about "ancestor worship." Read my post again.

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Peace.

Shariff · (#9 (**permalink**))

Omaar wrote:

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107

Salaam to all.

I would like to ask a few questions:

1) WHAT is "Ancestor Worship"?
2) HOW are we to understand or interpret the word "WORSHIP"?
3) WHO are the "ANCESTORS", and WHY are they worthy of WORSHIP?

Salaam

The Webster's dictionary defines WORSHIP as:

Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship
1 chiefly British : a person of importance -- used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
2 : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3 : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4 : extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar>

So if you're offering reverence, admiration , and devotion to something or someone and EXPRESSING it in teh form of creed and ritual...you are worshiping it or them.

If you're doing this to and ancestor, they you are practicing ancestor worship.

You asked who are the ancestors, ancestors are relatives who have died.

Other people can give thier own reason for their worship or lack thereof of the ancestors but I personally believe no on deserves worship but the Creator.
I respect my ancestors, but I worship only Allah.

Shariff

Believe whatever u like. But I will NEVER diss my ancestors in favor of some white man's religion. And I was raised Episcopilian!

I mean no disrespect but that statement pushed me to ask you 2 questions:

Why do you have an Arabic name? Why not?

Do you consider yourself a Muslim? No.

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Thought we had this conversation before? I explained that I've studied andpracticed Islam. I seek knowledge of self andYoruba cosmology is the only religion that explains human personality archetypes and why we think and act the way we do. Islam left me hanging there.

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