Black Muslims found America before Columbus - Page 4

Shemsi en Tehuti · (#76 (**permalink**))

Dark Prince86 wrote:

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It still doesn't change the fact that Africans have been practicing slavery for long time. We KNOW that Africans have practiced this a ll the way back to Egypt's rise. As as scholar of Egypt you should know this.

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Thanks for pointing this out Dark Prince, but it is no new information to me.

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Dark Prince86 wrote:

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Africans have probably done it before Egypt even existed. So what's the big deal, that Arabs did it. TrueArabs are partiallyAfricans descended. For your information.

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There was a majordifference before, where slaves were only a result of war. Classical African (matriarchal) cultures were never oriented to maintain slaves. The occasional slaves of Egypt, Ethiopia, Songhai, Mali, Nubia, and most others were prisoners of war. In this respect slaves were justified, but no classical African civilizations intentionallypursued to enslave others as this ideology was inflicted on Africa by Arab Muslims and European Christians.

Dark Prince86 wrote:

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And also there is a lot of proof that west Africans choose without an Arab with a sword at their throat to convert to Islams.

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After seeing their brethren dragged off in chains, I would convert withoutunnecessary force too.

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Dark Prince86 wrote: 4000 Arabs left the Arabian peninsula to spread Islams. The went in all directions (for example less 500 Arabs were actually present in Spain during its so called conquest, the rest were Berbers a completely different people). There were never enough Muslims to force the amounts of Arabs to force Africans tobecome Muslim. Most Africans empires could have taken on Muslims if that was what they wanted ( since the Muslim in a minority, the could pose a threat).

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The problem with your statement is it's based on false premises from Arab sources. When it came to the spreadof Islam, they were such liars. If you look at the Chinese account alone, they accounted well over 4,000 Arabs that forcefully imposed their religion.

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I do agree that some Africans did accept Islam whole-heartedly (which I find isone of our problems as a people), but in light of the millions of Africans enslaved, I find it hard to believe that the threat of captivity did not weigh in the collectivedecision of Africansin converting toIslam.

Dark Prince86 wrote:

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What I find arrogant about you ( I am sorry if I aminsulting, but this has tobe said)and many non Africans is that you won't ask Africans about their history.

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You bring up a very good point, but as I have highlighted earlier, I have consulted with Africans as well as independent resources (to be a good researcher/scientist). Most of the Africans I have spoken to were from Nigeria, so perhaps my analysis is skewed towards that particular region's experience. However, I have consulted with people from East, Central and North Africa as well. There are many well-informed Africansabout their history who are cognizant about how it has been sugar-coated by Arab and European influences.

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Dark Prince86 wrote: There is much Africans evidence that the converison was made by peacefully, without sword at hand or throat. We weren't that weak:P.

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I am not so sure the conversion was generally peaceful; however, that does not imply that Africans were "weak." They were just not a people who thrived off of war. In those respects, I found Africans to be more civilized than their European and Arab counterparts.West Africans had very good blacksmiths who could form metals, however, they did not use iron very much in their weapons. The reason being is that our culture was never very big on war, even from our earliest beginnings. However, the Arabs did use more powerful weapons (iron included), and that cannot be denied. It further aided their slave-raiding when they imported guns from Europe into Africa to strengthen both their threats and ambitions.

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Dark Prince86 wrote:

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Arab merchants spread Islam more than Arab warriors ever did. Next you will probably claim that Arabs came with sword at hand and forced Chinese and other Asians to become Muslim. The fact that the Chinese Empire could probably lay the smack-down on the Muslims empires when they were at their strongest is of course not relevant. LOL

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You have to remember that China was not necessarily consolidated at that time as it is now. There were many different provinces that were often at war with each other...hence the motivation of the Chinesebook The Art of War by Sun Tzu compiled centuries ago. Another book to show you how the Chinese have always regarded Islam as violent is Familiar Strangers: A History of Muslims in Northwest China by Jonathan N. N. Lipman.

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Dark Prince86 wrote: I hope I didn't insult you

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No, I am not offended at all. In fact, I enjoy intelligent exchanges as long as it does not turn into hurling insults. I am here to learn from my brothers and sisters on the forum. It is all a part of learning.

--Thoth B3

SOLOMON · (#77 (**permalink**))

Mr. Thoth 83, I should like to understand.

It isa known fact, Arabs are responsible for attrocities, against Africans.

WHATPOINT DO YOU WISH TO MAKE? confused3

Shemsi en Tehuti · (#78 (**permalink**))

SOLOMON wrote:

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WHATPOINT DO YOU WISH TO MAKE? confused3

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OriginallyI was just addressing the denial of some people that ArabMuslims had just as much to do with African slavery asEuropean Christians. Butmy whole irritation with this thread was that the accomplishments of West Africans were obviously being ignored by creating a post talking about "Black Muslims" travelling to America before Columbus whenthese Blacks in West Africa had been doing it since about 1500 BCE without any influenceof Islam.

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It just seemed a little Uncle Tom-ish in character, except that it is exclusive toArabsasopposed to Whites.

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That was all I was stressing...

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--Thoth B3

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SOLOMON · (#79 (**permalink**))

OriginallyI was just addressing the denial of some people that ArabMuslims had just as much to do with African slavery asEuropean Christians.

"The Mohammedan Negro has felt nothing of the withering power of caste. There is nothing in his colour or race to debar him from the highest privileges, social or political, to which any other Muslim can attain."
Edward W. Blyden, Liberian writer and thinker. From the Islam section of "The Story of Africa" resource.

Edward Wilmot Blyden

1832-1912

SOLOMON · (#80 (**permalink**))

Butmy whole irritation with this thread was that the accomplishments of West Africans were obviously being ignored by creating a post talking about "Black Muslims" travelling to America before Columbus whenthese Blacks in West Africa had been doing it since about 1500 BCE without any influenceof Islam.

Sir, byreferring to them as"Black Muslims",in yourmind, does this make them any less "West African"?

Also, isthe info nottrue? confused3

The Last African · (#81 (**permalink**))

Thoth B3 wrote:

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Dark Prince86 wrote:

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It still doesn't change the fact that Africans have been practicing slavery for long time. We KNOW that Africans have practiced this a ll the way back to Egypt's rise. As as scholar of Egypt you should know this.

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Thanks for pointing this out Dark Prince, but it is no new information to me.

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Dark Prince86 wrote:

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Africans have probably done it before Egypt even existed. So what's the big deal, that Arabs did it. TrueArabs are partiallyAfricans descended. For your information.

==============

There was a majordifference before, where slaves were only a result of war. Classical African (matriarchal) cultures were never oriented to maintain slaves. The occasional slaves of Egypt, Ethiopia, Songhai, Mali, Nubia, and most others were prisoners of war. In this respect slaves were justified, but no classical African civilizations intentionallypursued to enslave others as this ideology was inflicted on Africa by Arab Muslims and European Christians.

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Actually that's a myth too, thatallold african cultures werematriarchal.The egyptians enslavedpeople for the sake of getting slaves as so has african cultures done to BEFORE the arab. However what you are saying is true, african slavery as whole, wasdifferent from otherkinds of slavery.I don't remember the name byt their was this great african empire that thrived upon enslaving other africans and selling them.And thiswas anonmuslim empire. I will try toi get its't name. It was rules by africans and there culture was african. And they enslaved africans.

Dark Prince86 wrote:

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And also there is a lot of proof that west Africans choose without an Arab with a sword at their throat to convert to Islams.

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After seeing their brethren dragged off in chains, I would convert withoutunnecessary force too.

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You don't seem to get it.Arabs have never been so numeous so that they could force the amount that choose to become muslim. And the proof is not solely arab, its african. I am going to Mali hopefully I can bring some proof.

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Dark Prince86 wrote: 4000 Arabs left the Arabian peninsula to spread Islams. The went in all directions (for example less 500 Arabs were actually present in Spain during its so called conquest, the rest were Berbers a completely different people). There were never enough Muslims to force the amounts of Arabs to force Africans tobecome Muslim. Most Africans empires could have taken on Muslims if that was what they wanted ( since the Muslim in a minority, the could pose a threat).

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The problem with your statement is it's based on false premises from Arab sources. When it came to the spreadof Islam, they were such liars. If you look at the Chinese account alone, they accounted well over 4,000 Arabs that forcefully imposed their religion.

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Are you trying to say that arabs forced islam upon the Chinese ? LOL. The problem with that statement is that the arabs never had those numbers, the didn't habe enough soldiers for such. By the way the "chinese" that are muslims aremainly Uigurs and were/are nomadic people (they a a turkish people) whom were damn good at fighting. There is a reason why arabs wanted turks in their armies. They fought well, very well, even better than arabs. Yet somehow, the arabs forced their religion on them. With the help of swords.Okaaay.

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I do agree that some Africans did accept Islam whole-heartedly (which I find isone of our problems as a people), but in light of the millions of Africans enslaved, I find it hard to believe that the threat of captivity did not weigh in the collectivedecision of Africansin converting toIslam.

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LOL, really though. When africans say, we choose to become muslims, you say that they were forced. Many africans kings who could fight choose not to, because the arabs weren't a threat, they were not hostile, traders generally aren't. Things would have been different, if that was the case.

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Okay if afrivans were forced to become muslims, why Thoth, why do Africans have and had so much preislamic practices and beliefs left. If you go to africa, west africa in particular,you will se that Islam has been merged with the preislamic practices. If we were forced to become muslims, wouldn't the arabs force us to abandon such practices. Some who actually go against everything the Quran teaches. Your statement is a thus a fallacy.

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By the Allah is God in Arabic. The Christians arabs whom are amongst the first christians have used that word for God.Its's no more different than Dieu orDios.

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Dark Prince86 wrote:

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What I find arrogant about you ( I am sorry if I aminsulting, but this has tobe said)and many non Africans is that you won't ask Africans about their history.

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==================

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You bring up a very good point, but as I have highlighted earlier, I have consulted with Africans as well as independent resources (to be a good researcher/scientist). Most of the Africans I have spoken to were from Nigeria, so perhaps my analysis is skewed towards that particular region's experience. However, I have consulted with people from East, Central and North Africa as well. There are many well-informed Africansabout their history who are cognizant about how it has been sugar-coated by Arab and European influences.

This may very well be true.

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Dark Prince86 wrote: There is much Africans evidence that the conversion was made by peacefully, without sword at hand or throat. We weren't that weak:P.

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I am not so sure the conversion was generally peaceful; however, that does not imply that Africans were "weak." They were just not a people who thrived off of war. In those respects, I found Africans to be more civilized than their European and Arab counterparts.West Africans had very good blacksmiths who could form metals, however, they did not use iron very much in their weapons. The reason being is that our culture was never very big on war, even from our earliest beginnings. However, the Arabs did use more powerful weapons (iron included), and that cannot be denied. It further aided their slave-raiding when they imported guns from Europe into Africa to strengthen both their threats and ambitions.

Actually this isn't all true either, wehave had several wars and fought alot, although in genreal we weren't that violent, in comparison. Whichis why most african empires were merchant empires. And actually africaniron (or metl lurgywas far superiorto anythingelse. Therewas isa tribe in modern Tanzania and nigeria that could create high carbon steel 2000 years ago. This is something Europe couldn't do until18th or 19th century. However this teqninque was secret.

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Dark Prince86 wrote:

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Arab merchants spread Islam more than Arab warriors ever did. Next you will probably claim that Arabs came with sword at hand and forced Chinese and other Asians to become Muslim. The fact that the Chinese Empire could probably lay the smack-down on the Muslims empires when they were at their strongest is of course not relevant. LOL

=============

You have to remember that China was not necessarily consolidated at that time as it is now. There were many different provinces that were often at war with each other...hence the motivation of the Chinesebook The Art of War by Sun Tzu compiled centuries ago. Another book to show you how the Chinese have always regarded Islam as violent is Familiar Strangers: A History of Muslims in Northwest China by Jonathan N. N. Lipman.

The art of war if more 2400 years old. And come Chinese emperors banned, islam, while other wholeheartedly welcomed, and some even embraced it. It is impossible to say that they hated islam. And how would the chinese whom you claim to be fighting amongst each other see islam as violent. LOL. That's doesn't make sense. The view on islam amongst chinese has been individual.l

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Dark Prince86 wrote: I hope I didn't insult you

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No, I am not offended at all. In fact, I enjoy intelligent exchanges as long as it does not turn into hurling insults. I am here to learn from my brothers and sisters on the forum. It is all a part of learning.

--Thoth B3

In the heat of battle it's easy tobe insulting and mean.Peace

The Last African · (#82 (**permalink**))

Thoth do you know what arab really is ?

And oh, I know very well about how wicked the arabs were and in some degree still are.