You aren't a full Christian unless you KILL SOMEONE...

Shemsi en Tehuti · (#1 (**permalink**))

[align=left]Jesus told us in Matthew 5:18 that the Law is to be upheld until "heaven and earth" pass away. Clearly it hasn't, so why aren't Christians doing more killing?[/align]

[align=left]Who You Should Kill[/align]

[align=left]--Unruly or rebellious child. Deut 21:20-21[/align]

[align=left]--Those who curse or hit their parents. Lev 20:9, Ex 21:15[/align]

[align=left]--Worshipers of other gods. Deut 13:6-11 (you have at least half the world to kill for this one)[/align]

[align=left]--Psychics, witches. Lev 20:27, Deut 13:6-11, Ex 22:18.[/align]

[align=left]--Those who do not believe in Jesus (parable). Luke 19:27. (half the world again)[/align]

[align=left]--Those who work on the Sabbath. Ex 35:2. Moses kills a gentile for this. Num 15:32-36. (you guys haven't agreed what the Sabbath really is yet, so alot of killing amongst yourselves too)[/align]

[align=left]--Those who are accused by at least two people of wickedness. Deut 17:6.[/align]

[align=left]--The children and babies of enemies. Num 31:17,Deut 20:13, Psalm 137:9, Lev 26:29. (at least half the world deserves death here)[/align]

[align=left]--Adulterers. Lev 20:10. (some Christians are guilty of this as well)[/align]

[align=left]--Homosexuals. Lev 20:13. (I guess civil unions are off)[/align]

[align=left]--A woman who is not a virgin when married. Deut 22:13-21. (there aren't as many old fashioned women these days...)[/align]

[align=left]--Those who are careless with murderous livestock. Exodus 21:29.[/align]

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zaghawa · (#2 (**permalink**))

I am not Jewish Christian or Muslimâ€¦

But clearly the christâ€™s message had to do with fulfilling the spiritual intent of the religious Hebraic law. Christ makes it very clear â€œturn the other cheekâ€?, â€œdo good unto him who does you evilâ€?, â€œforgive your enemiesâ€?.

The civil codes and laws in the old testament that you mention have to do with running and maintaining a tribal society. The ancient Hebrews were a people who were at constant war, surrounded by hostile enemies -they were extremelybrutal to their enemies and their criminals.

The Jewish, Christian and Muslim religions really belong to a completely different time and place in world history and that is why so many people have a hard time making them relevant to the modern world.

If you were to say to a modernJew or a Christian â€“ "an adulteress should be stoned" -they would laugh at you even though it is a part of their religious tradition. A modern muslim however might not find the suggestion absurd.

LadyDay · (#3 (**permalink**))

thoth b3 things need to be taken into context

the ten commandments clearly state thou shall not kill

so

Imperial · (#4 (**permalink**))

I imagine Jesus wouldadapt with the times. He'd be like Denzel from Training Day.

'Ooh, you lied to me, you lied to me! Lucky I don't make you eat that dawg!'

*Steps on crack*

Shemsi en Tehuti · (#5 (**permalink**))

LadyDay wrote:

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thoth b3 things need to be taken into context

the ten commandments clearly state thou shall not kill

so

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Yes, but at the same time these others laws written that instructed people to actually kill, so why take the 10 commandments in a modern "context," but disregard the other laws (that were written at the same period) simply because you don't like them?

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--Thoth B3

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Shemsi en Tehuti · (#6 (**permalink**))

zaghawa wrote:

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I am not Jewish Christian or Muslimâ€¦

But clearly the christâ€™s message had to do with fulfilling the spiritual intent of the religious Hebraic law. Christ makes it very clear â€œturn the other cheekâ€?, â€œdo good unto him who does you evilâ€?, â€œforgive your enemiesâ€?.

The civil codes and laws in the old testament that you mention have to do with running and maintaining a tribal society. The ancient Hebrews were a people who were at constant war, surrounded by hostile enemies -they were extremelybrutal to their enemies and their criminals.

The Jewish, Christian and Muslim religions really belong to a completely different time and place in world history and that is why so many people have a hard time making them relevant to the modern world.

If you were to say to a modernJew or a Christian â€“ "an adulteress should be stoned" -they would laugh at you even though it is a part of their religious tradition. A modern muslim however might not find the suggestion absurd.

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Let's not forget that Jesus was Jewish to the core. This mythical stuff Christians practice today has nothing to do with what Jesus taught.

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As for the absurdity of stoning an adulteress today, does that not reflect on the absurdity of these religions in their entirety?

safetyblitz · (#7 (**permalink**))

C'mon Thoth you are taking that entirely outof context. When Jesus said that the Law was to be upheld until heaven and earth passed away, you know that he meant that the law was to be obeyed until nothing else existed. Not only that if I a verse or two before that he says that he did not come to over throw the law. Now how did you get kill more people out of that?

Luke 19:27 and the verses before it are clearly talking about making use of what you were given by God and how if you abuse it you will be punished.

Now the the ones that you picked out of the old testament? I ams sorry but the old testament goes from let's love each other to let's hack them up back to God loves us back to God will destroy all of you and back to Lovefest 1000 BC which makes me think that a lot of is has been looooosely translated or rewritten. LOL

Shemsi en Tehuti · (#8 (**permalink**))

safetyblitz wrote:

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C'mon Thoth you are taking that entirely outof context. When Jesus said that the Law was to be upheld until heaven and earth passed away, you know that he meant that the law was to be obeyed until nothing else existed.

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Until nothing else existed?...ok...well we obviously still exist because we are discussing it now so why are Christians still not following the Law as Jesus said?

safetyblitz · (#9 (**permalink**))

Thoth B3 wrote:

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safetyblitz wrote:

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C'mon Thoth you are taking that entirely outof context. When Jesus said that the Law was to be upheld until heaven and earth passed away, you know that he meant that the law was to be obeyed until nothing else existed.

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Until nothing else existed?...ok...well we obviously still exist because we are discussing it now so why are Christians still not following the Law as Jesus said?

But Jesus spoke of what? The commandments the 10 commandments to be exact in this chapter and throughout Matthew 5 preaches forgiveness and even says in it to turn the other cheek (the old MLK slogan on attackers). Jesus is speaking of serving God and loving humans.

The complete opposite to how you are portraying the verse. It would have been more logical to base the thread on how this chapter goes against a lot of the other verses in the bible.

Shemsi en Tehuti · (#10 (**permalink**))

safetyblitz wrote:

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But Jesus spoke of what? The commandments the 10 commandments to be exact in this chapter

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Jesus is not talking only about the 10 commandments. The "Law" is most of whatChristians consider to be the Old Testament.In John 10:34, Jesus specifically recites a verse from what he calls"the Law," where he is referencing Psalms 82:6-7.

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safetyblitz wrote: and throughout Matthew 5 preaches forgiveness and even says in it to turn the other cheek (the old MLK slogan on attackers). Jesus is speaking of serving God and loving humans. The complete opposite to how you are portraying the verse. It would have been more logical to base the thread on how this chapter goes against a lot of the other verses in the bible.

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Perhaps, but considering that Jesus says that the Law (or Old Testament) is to be followed, I do not think it is out of context. Yes, Jesus preaches forgiveness for your transgressors, but that is totally different from the topic of this thread where followers of the Law are to actively pursue the death of certain individuals that have nothing to do with being begrudging enemies. There is nothing in conflict with the Law in exercising more forgiveness.

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Let us not forget what Jesus said after stating the Law is to be upheld:

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[suP]34[/suP]"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
[suP]35[/suP]"For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW;
[suP]36[/suP]and A MAN'S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD. ~Matthew 10:34-36

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If you go back to the particular scriptures of the Law I quoted, then it often talks about killingtheir own brethren for those sins.