origin of Christianity... - Page 2

SOLOMON · (#26 (**permalink**))

[align=center]Christianity's "origin" is NOT found in the Old Testament.[/align]
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[align=center][img]http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9gnMiaVMphEqdIA6BWjzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN 0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=13kanncd0/EXP=1150911509/**http%3a//www.project2000.ca/shekinah/Ruah/world%2520religions/Christianity/images/Christianity.jpg[/img][/align]

SOLOMON · (#27 (**permalink**))

[align=center]MAYBE,YOU DO NOT CONSIDER THE "MAKEUP" OF GOD THE "FATHER", "ADDING MUCH", I DO!I tried to comprend what you meant, but please elaborate, seriously.[/align]

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[align=center]Genesis 32[/align]

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Jacob Wrestles With God[/align]
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[align=center]22 That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two maidservants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. 23 After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. 24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said, "Let me go, for it is daybreak."
But Jacob replied, "I will not let you go unless you bless me."
27 The MANasked him, "What is your name?"
"Jacob," he answered.
28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, [suP][e][/suP] because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome."
29 Jacob said, "Please tell me your name."
But he replied, "Why do you ask my name?" Then he blessed him there.
30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, [suP][f][/suP] saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."
31 The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel, [suP][g][/suP] and he was limping because of his hip. 32 Therefore to this day the Israelites do not eat the tendon attached to the socket of the hip, because the socket of Jacob's hip was touched near the tendon.[/align]

urbanorder · (#28 (**permalink**))

Your talking fiat uno solomon..................

HLF · (#29 (**permalink**))

So you speak of Jacob's bout with the Archangel Metatron...

SOLOMON · (#30 (**permalink**))

urbanchaos wrote:

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Your talking fiat uno solomon..................

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sorry but, didn't understand. confused3

SOLOMON · (#31 (**permalink**))

HLF wrote:

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So you speak of Jacob's bout with the Archangel Metatron...

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is something wrong w/your

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comprehension skills?

[align=center]Genesis 32[/align]

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So Jacob called the place Peniel, [suP][f][/suP] saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."

HLF · (#32 (**permalink**))

SOLOMON wrote:

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HLF wrote:

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So you speak of Jacob's bout with the Archangel Metatron...

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is something wrong w/your

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comprehension skills?

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No, but if you honestly comprehend this passage literally without taking into the account, research and other knowledge of the Divine, then that wouldn't make you that much more advanced in spiritual knowledge than the average Christian. I have to tell it like it is, you know that by now.

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I thought that Jacob tussling with Metatron (some people identifyhim as just an angel or man) was somewhat common knowledge. Metatron is of course dubbed, "the Voice of Yahweh, God" for knowledge that Yahweh's is holy and pure, if we heard His actual voice, it would kill us because most of us aren't anywhere near spiritually refined enough to withstand His awesome voice, therefore, He does have a head messenger to speak for Him. In order to be Yahweh's Divine Messenger, He would have to absolutely have some Divine qualities.Back squarely to the subject,angel in greek (angelos) or in Hebrew (malak) means messenger. You can verify this in Easton's Bible Dictionary, as well as this very ordeal of exactly who Jacob "struggled" with as referenced under 'angel' for (Gen 32:24,Gen 32:30).

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It can be proven that Jacob did not wrestle directly with his God, Yahweh by common sense. If you are familiar with Exodus 33, specifically 18-23, Moses wished to see his God, Yahweh's face, but it was written that Yahweh said in verse 33:20, "But He [Yahweh]answered, "You cannot see My face, for no one can see Me and live." No human of the fleshis exempt from this, for Yahweh never changes, He is holy and always will be. If that absolute holiness would kill Moses by sight in a sin-filled state, it would have surely killed Jacob.

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SOLOMON · (#33 (**permalink**))

HLF, PLEASE, EXPLAIN THE FOLLOWING...

Numbers 12:5

5: And the LORD came down in a pillar of cloud, andstood at the door of the tent, and called Aaron and Miriam; and they both came forward.
6: And he said, "Hear my words: If there is a prophet among you, I the LORD make myself known to him in a vision, I speak with him in a dream.
7: Not so with my servant Moses; he is entrusted with all my house.
8: With him I speak mouth to mouth, clearly, and not in dark speech; and he beholds the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?"

These verses are VERY clear, to me. First of all, God, in verse 8, says that HE HAS A " FORM". He says that other prophets are aware of Him, by a "vision" and that He speaks to them, "in a dream". "...7: Not so with my servant Moses; he is entrusted with all my house.
8: With him I speak mouth to mouth, clearly, and not in dark speech; and he beholds the formof the LORD. (am I missing something?)

SOLOMON · (#34 (**permalink**))

HLF or anyone, please, explain...

Gen. 3:8 ...and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden....

!!!How could they hide themselves from God, if He is only a spirit? This does not make sense, to me. ***

HLF · (#35 (**permalink**))

SOLOMON wrote:

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HLF, PLEASE, EXPLAIN THE FOLLOWING...

Numbers 12:5

5: And the LORD came down in a pillar of cloud, andstood at the door of the tent, and called Aaron and Miriam; and they both came forward.
6: And he said, "Hear my words: If there is a prophet among you, I the LORD make myself known to him in a vision, I speak with him in a dream.
7: Not so with my servant Moses; he is entrusted with all my house.
8: With him I speak mouth to mouth, clearly, and not in dark speech; and he beholds the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?"

These verses are VERY clear, to me. First of all, God, in verse 8, says that HE HAS A " FORM". He says that other prophets are aware of Him, by a "vision" and that He speaks to them, "in a dream". "...7: Not so with my servant Moses; he is entrusted with all my house.
8: With him I speak mouth to mouth, clearly, and not in dark speech; and he beholds the formof the LORD. (am I missing something?)

[quote]If Mose spoke directly with Yahweh, then he must have been spiritually refined enough to do so. I think the question would be if Miriam and Aaron were holy and spiritually refined enough. If they had issues witha wife of Moses then I don't think that shows much of having any advanced divineinclination. Moses saw Yahweh's form, but not his face. By definition in SOLOMON wrote:

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HLF or anyone, please, explain...

Gen. 3:8 ...and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden....

!!!How could they hide themselves from God, if He is only a spirit? This does not make sense, to me. ***

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That is a popular teaching that Yahweh-God is only spirit, but Yahweh is not limited to either form, but that does not mean he has no form. Adam and Chavah (Eve), they were created in the image of Yahweh, so if He was holy they were created holy. Did you notice that although it was written Yahweh walked in Eden with Adam and Chavah, after falling from their previous holy nature, Yahweh did not walkamong them much if any more, instead sending angels to communicate with them, feed or cloth them at certain points? It makes me ask this question, what matters most, the messenger or the message? If one gets a package from 'Tanakh, Inc' via UPS, isn't it still from Tanakh, Inc.?

SOLOMON · (#36 (**permalink**))