The BN Village  
Home Register FAQ Members Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Welcome to the African and Caribbean Social network.

You are currently are in guest mode which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access other features. By joining this free African Caribbean Social utility you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), upload images, add videos, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join the African and Caribbean community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Go Back   The BN Village > Welcome to The Black Forum - The Black net Village > Spirituality & Religion Village
Reload this Page The end of one law for all? - religious vs secular

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
imported post
(#1 (permalink))
Old
LadyDay's Avatar
LadyDay is Online
BNV Managing Editor
LadyDay is an unknown quantity at this point
 
Posts: 7,910
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: , , United Kingdom
Post imported post - 28-11-06, 02:54 PM

The end of one law for all?



By Innes Bowen
Producer, Law in Action









Unless our decisions are unreasonable, they are recognised by the High Court
Faizul Aqtab Siddiqi
Ethnic and religious courts are gaining ground in the UK. Will this lead to different justice for different people?
Aydarus Yusuf has lived in the UK for the past 15 years, but he feels more bound by the traditional law of his country of birth - Somalia - than he does by the law of England and Wales.
"Us Somalis, wherever we are in the world, we have our own law. It's not Islamic, it's not religious - it's just a cultural thing."
The 29-year-old youth worker wants to ensure that other members of his community remain subject to the law of their ancestors too - he helps convene an unofficial Somali court, or "gar", in south-east London.
Aydarus is not alone in this desire. A number of parallel legal universes have been quietly evolving among minority communities. As well as Somali customary law, Islamic and Jewish laws are being applied and enforced in parts of the UK.







What they mustn't do - and this must never happen - is to stray into the field of criminal matters
Gerald Butler QC
Islamic and Jewish law remains confined to civil matters. But the BBC's Law in Action programme has learned that the Somali court hears criminal cases too.
One of the most serious cases it has dealt with was the "trial" of a group of young men accused of stabbing a fellow Somali.
"When the suspects were released on bail by the police, we got the witnesses and families together for a hearing," says Aydarus. "The accused men admitted their guilt and apologised. Their fathers and uncles agreed compensation."
'Legal pluralism'
So how did this court come about? Some academic lawyers see these alternative legal systems as an inevitable - and welcome - consequence of multiculturalism.


Dr Prakash Shah, of London's Queen Mary University, advocates this "legal pluralism".
"Tribunals like the Somali court could be more effective than the formal legal system in maintaining social harmony."
Former judge Gerald Butler QC says that while courts such as the Jewish Beth Din can work properly, it's essential that all of the involved parties "freely and voluntarily agree to the jurisdiction... and that they conduct their proceedings fairly and properly". He adds: "What they mustn't do - and this must never happen - is to stray into the field of criminal matters. That simply would never be acceptable."
While religious leaders in the UK's Jewish and Muslim communities have not sought to enforce their own versions of criminal law, they have steadily built up their capacity to deal with civil matters within their own religious codes. What's more, they are doing it with the help of English law.
The Beth Din is the most formally entrenched of these minority courts. The UK's main Beth Din is based in Finchley, north London.
It oversees a wide range of cases including divorce settlements, contractual rows between traders and tenancy disputes.







Orthodox Jews go to the Beth Din to settle their disputes - they believe it is a religious obligation to go there
Solicitor Jonathan Greenwood
The court cannot force anyone to come within its jurisdiction. But once someone agrees to settle a dispute in the Beth Din, he or she is bound in English law to abide by the court's decision.
This is because under English law people may devise their own way to settle a dispute before an agreed third party.
Crucially, the legislation does not insist that settlements must be based on English law; all that matters is the outcome is reasonable and both parties agree to the process. And it's in this space that religious courts, applying the laws of another culture, are growing in the UK.
"Orthodox Jews go to the Beth Din to settle their disputes," says Jonathan Greenwood, a solicitor who represents many Jewish businessmen at the court.
"They believe it is a religious obligation to go there [and seek redress under Jewish law] rather than the secular courts. But it is also usually quicker and cheaper."
Sharia law
Amongst the UK's Muslims there are sharply contrasting views about Sharia or Islamic law in the UK. Sharia is the historic legal foundations of the Islamic world - like English law, it has developed over centuries but is based on simple principles.







Traditional forms of mediation can disadvantage vulnerable groups, such as women, within a community
Cassandra Balchin, Women Living Under Muslim Laws
In an ICM survey of 500 British Muslims carried out in February 2006, 40% of respondents said they would support the introduction of Sharia in predominantly Muslim areas of Britain.
The UK's most prominent Muslim organisation, the Muslim Council of Britain, opposes the idea, saying it will not support a dual legal system.
But some of Britain's Islamic scholars have called for a different approach - Sharia legal code in areas such as family and inheritance, applied through the secular courts.
Mohammed Shahid Raza, a leading Islamic scholar, claims this is a workable model with a British precedent: "When Britain was ruling India, there was a separate legal code for Muslims, organised and regulated by British experts of law."
There is already a network of Sharia councils in the UK. They are not recognised as courts but are seen as essential by those Muslims seeking advice and religious sanction in matters such as divorce.
Ayesha Begum sought an Islamic divorce from the Muslim Law Shariah Council in west London.
"I had obtained a divorce in the secular courts - but my husband refused to divorce me Islamically. In English law I was seen as a single woman but by Islamic law I was still married to him.
"I'm a practising Muslim and I wanted to do the right things in the eyes of God. It was very important I obtained an Islamic divorce."
But Cassandra Balchin, a convert to Islam and spokeswoman for the group Women Living Under Muslim Laws, is concerned about the growth of these minority legal systems.
"Very often traditional forms of mediation can disadvantage vulnerable groups, such as women, within a community.
"I'm concerned about how much choice the weaker party would have in submitting to the governance of these alternative forums."
Despite Ms Balchin's fears, Sharia councils have already begun to follow the Jewish model of turning themselves into recognised courts of arbitration.
Faisal Aqtab Siddiqi, a commercial law barrister and head of the Hijaz College Islamic University in Warwickshire, says he has already adjudicated in a number of contractual disputes.
"Because we follow the same process as any case of arbitration, our decisions are binding in English law. Unless our decisions are unreasonable, they are recognised by the High Court."
Law in Action is on Radio 4, Tuesdays at 1600 GMT, or any time at the Law in Action website.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/h...ne/6190080.stm

Published: 2006/11/28 12:12:19 GMT



Think outside of the box...Think in spirit

Act as if it were impossible to fail!!!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati Share On Face Book!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
Remove advertisements
Advertisement
Advertisement Sponsored links

imported post
(#2 (permalink))
Old
Mokele Mbembe's Avatar
Mokele Mbembe is Offline
Village Veteran
Mokele Mbembe
 
Posts: 12,231
Join Date: May 2004
Location: London, , United Kingdom
Send a message via MSN to Mokele Mbembe
Post imported post - 28-11-06, 05:52 PM

They would have a point if Britain were indeed the secular nation it pupports to be. It is not. High ranking members of the clergy have automatic positions in the house of Lords and the Monarch is the defender of the faith. It might sound like legal nothingness but the role of the church in government is extremely strong.


Original drunkmonkey representing
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati Share On Face Book!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
imported post
(#3 (permalink))
Old
HLF is Offline
Villager
HLF
 
Posts: 705
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tiki Village, ,
Post imported post - 30-11-06, 06:42 PM


The two (church/gov) have never been separated, physically yes, but not separate in action an influence. In actuality, the current "church" & gov have replaced the first and everlasting real, spiritual one. If one understands the deeper meaning of secular, then one would understand that their isn't much if any contrast between the terms 'religious' and 'secular'; the main contrastive is that one is pretending to be that which it is not, divinely spiritual.

A "textbook" definition to secular is: of or relating to the worldly or temporal (which means physical). The Etymologic root relates to the late latin saecularis, which does mean "worldly". The term "religion" comes from the latin word 'religio' meaning supernatural constraint. If one is supernaturally (spiritually) impaired or not in-tune, what else does that person have to operate exclusively in? The physical, which is the world exclusively, an all-corrupting one at that when operating in it solely. 'Religion' and 'secular' are birds of a feather; religion, which was and will always be second to spirituality, manwith no spiritual connect is worldly, just as man with a false spiritual connection (religion) is privy to the worldly. Religion is a program of man and of the control of man, by man and not of the One Divine God. Look at the religious systems and how corrupt they continue to become, only those with spiritual weakness are easily corrupt. People with spiritual weakness who claim to represent God in the various "houses of worship", can't possibly represent The GOD of spiritual strength and all encompassing power, both spiritual and physical; that brings no glory to The GOD of righteousness.

The separation between the religious (not spiritual) and secular is just as illusionary as the separation between church/& state.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati Share On Face Book!Stumble this Post!
Reply With Quote
Remove advertisements
Advertisement
Advertisement Sponsored links

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trying To Start A Secular Nationalist Group Iolite News and Politics Village 106 07-09-07 11:44 PM
Religious Skepticism Fine1952 Spirituality & Religion Village 0 13-06-06 07:15 PM
Religious jokes Mokele Mbembe Spirituality & Religion Village 15 11-01-06 06:42 PM
Religious peeps... queenbee Spirituality & Religion Village 1 09-05-05 11:04 AM
Religious Language Anni* Spirituality & Religion Village 4 20-11-04 02:26 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0
Internet Marketing by: Firm SEO
Ad Management by RedTyger