THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST EXPLANATIONS OF WHYGOD ALLOWS PAIN AND SUFFERING THAT I HAVE SEEN:

A MAN WENT TO A BARBERSHOP TO HAVE HIS HAIR CUT AND HIS BEARD TRIMMED. AS THE BARBER BEGAN TO WORK, THEY BEGAN TO HAVE A GOOD CONVERSATION.THEY TALKED ABOUT SO MANY THINGS AND VARIOUS SUBJECTS.

WHEN THEY EVENTUALLY TOUCHED ON THE SUBJECT OF GOD, THE BARBER SAID: "I DON'T BELIEVE THATGOD EXISTS."
"WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?" ASKED THE CUSTOMER. "WELL, YOU JUST HAVE TO GO OUT IN THE STREET TO REALIZE THAT ALLAH DOESN'T EXIST. TELL ME, IF ALLAH (GOD)EXISTS, WOULD THERE BE SO MANY SICK PEOPLE? WOULD THERE BE ABANDONED CHILDREN? IFGOD EXISTED, THERE WOULD BE NEITHER SUFFERING NOR PAIN.

I CAN'T IMAGINE A LOVINGGOD WHO WOULD ALLOW ALL OF THESE THINGS." THE CUSTOMER THOUGHT FOR A MOMENT, BUT DIDN'T RESPOND BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO START AN ARGUMENT.THE BARBER FINISHED HIS JOB AND THE CUSTOMER LEFT THE SHOP.

JUST AFTER HE LEFT THE BARBERSHOP, HE SAW A MAN IN THE
STREET WITH LONG, STRINGY, DIRTY HAIR AND AN UNTRIMMED
BEARD. HE LOOKED DIRTY AND UNKEMPT.
THE CUSTOMER TURNED BACK AND ENTERED THE BARBER SHOP AGAIN AND HE SAID TO THE BARBER: "YOU KNOW WHAT? BARBERS DO NOT EXIST."
"HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT?" ASKED THE SURPRISED BARBER.
"I AM HERE, AND I AM A BARBER. AND I JUST WORKED ON YOU!"
"NO!" THE CUSTOMER EXCLAIMED. "BARBERS DON'T EXIST BECAUSE
IF THEY DID, THERE WOULD BE NO PEOPLE WITH DIRTY LONG HAIR AND UNTRIMMED BEARDS, LIKE THAT MAN OUTSIDE."
"AH, BUT BARBERS DO EXIST! THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE
DO NOT COME TO ME."

"EXACTLY!" AFFIRMED THE CUSTOMER. "THAT'S THE POINT! ALLAH, TOO, DOES EXIST! THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE DO NOT GO TO HIM AND DON'T LOOK TO HIM FOR HELP.
THAT'S WHY THERE'S SO MUCH PAIN AND SUFFERING IN THE
WORLD."

Last I heard, when a person goes to a barber, they have money to pay as there is an understanding of an exchange.

Last i heard, All knowing Gods are supposed know all and are supposed to have anticpated this suffering before creating, and yet, they still created. A Gods who has existed always and will exist always and has seen the beginning and the end should have known wha gwan before creating people who would suffer.

Last I heard, there were plenty of Christians, Muslims, Jewish and people from all other religions and spiritual systems who follow in the name of a God and yet they still suffer.

This explanation is no more than an e-mail message sent to comfort people in already held beliefs. It's not anything for anyone who seriously objectively thinks about these things. I've seen much better explanations...

okey that wasnt a good one... but this might answer some of ur questions

An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, the Almighty. He asks one of his new Muslim students to stand and…..
Professor: You are a Muslim, aren’t you, son?
Student : Yes, sir.
Prof: So you believe in God?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Prof: Is God good?
Student : Sure.
Prof: Is God all-powerful?
Student : Yes.
Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn’t. How is this God good then? Hmm?

(Student is silent.)

Prof: You can’t answer, can you? Let’s start again, young fella. Is God good?
Student :Yes.
Prof: Is Satan good?
Student : No.
Prof: Where does Satan come from?
Student : From…God…
Prof: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
Student : Yes.
Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it? And God did make everything. Correct?
Student : Yes.
Prof: So who created evil?

(Student does not answer.)

Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they?
Student :Yes, sir.
Prof: So, who created them?

(Student has no answer.)

Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son…Have you ever seen God?
Student: No, sir.
Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?
Student : No , sir.
Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?
Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t.
Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?
Student : Yes.
Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.
Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.

Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
Prof: Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as cold?
Prof: Yes.
Student : No sir. There isn’t.

(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)

Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness?
Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light….But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it were you could be able to make darkness, darker, wouldn’t you?

Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?
Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?
Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolvedfrom a monkey?
Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class is in uproar.)

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain?

(The class breaks out into laughter.)

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it?…..No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.)

Prof: I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son.
Student : That is it sir.. The link between man & god is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive.

Nope, it doesn't, it's fun but doesn't answer much.

If you are aware of how a computer works, everything I am doing right now is on the basis of 0's and 1's. One is considered to be something, the other the absence of something, does the absence of something negate existence.

The student's arguement is that basically, 0 doesn't exist because it is the absence of something, in this case 1. The nature of this plain of existence is that it all exists as matter, there is no such thing a lack of matter here, just the absence of it in the form which you experience it as a human. To negate an opposite is to negate neutrality. The world is based on opposites and balance, it is naive to believe otherwise.

By his logic, 1 below 0 is still heat, 10 below is still heat, 100 below 0 is still heat because he says 458 below 0 is where there is no heat. That doesn't make sense luv. Because by his logic he has irradicated the section of neutrality that so obviously exists where it is neither hot nor cold and made everything above 458 varying degrees of hot. It is his logic that is flawed.

The ambient lights of the city are always present but yet we experience darkness, we know this because it is not light. Do you experience at this very moment a degree of light in the sky or darkness. When you have just experienced twilight do you there after see a singular degree of darkness, or as he says absence of light or does the absence become greater until an ultimate darkness is reached.

To believe there are no opposites is to negate the whole human experience. That is some flawed logic right there. He is arguing semantics and I could easily say there is no heat, that is just a word we use to describewhen we come into contact witha particular form of energy. The world is created upon binary experiences. We could look at anything and it is ever present throughout nature since the beginning of time.

That isn't the only part i have a problem with however. the fact that science believes in faith as well as those who believe in God is a hollow victory because it makes him no more right about what he is saying. If I have the wrong answer to an exam question because I used the wrong formulae, I can point out how many people have used the wrong formulae but that doesn't prove I have the right one. It's a weak Argument.

None of that proves God's existence, it just silences the words of atheists. I already Believe there is a creator (just nothing to do with mainstream religion's ideas of that creator)and so I can look at this and see it for what it is, another e-mail (one my christian friends keep on sending me) which is used to silence non believers and get them thinking about joining a faith. It works many times because of those who read it don't usually think that it doesn't prove something to be "right", it proves something to be equal to the other.

You can try another though. I am sure I haven't seen them all. I am interested to see what these things try to prove and how they fall short.

i kanna liked reading your reply it was kanna interesting and got me thinking.


Suppose you find a watch in the middle of a desert. What would you
conclude? Would you think that someone dropped the watch? Or would you
suppose that the watch came by itself?
Of course no sane person would say that the watch just happened to emerge
from the sand. All the intricate working parts could not simply develop
from the metals the lay buried in the earth. The watch must have a
manufacturer.
If a watch tells accurate time? Consider the sunrise and sunset. Their
timings are so strictly regulated that scientists can publish in advance
the sunrise and sunset times in your daily newspapers. But who regulates
the timings of sunrise and sunset?
Allah tells us in the Qur’an: "Behold! In the creation of the heavens and
the earth; in the alternation of the Night and the Day; in the sailing of
the ships through the Ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which
Allah sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to
an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through
the earth; in the change of the winds and the clouds which they trail like
their slaves between the sky and the earth, (here) indeed are Signs for a
people that are wise"
The message is clear, if a watch can not work without an intelligent


maker, how can the sun appear to rise and set with such clockwork
regularity? Could this occur by itself?
Consider also that we benefit from the sun only because it remains at a
safe distance from the earth, a distance that averages 93 million miles.
If it got much closer the earth would burn up. And if it got too far away
the earth would turn into an icy planet making human life here
impossible.
Who decided in advance that this was the right distance? Could it just
happen by chance? Without the sun plants would not grow. Then animals and
humans would starve. Did the sun just decide to be there for us?!
The rays of the sun would be dangerous for us had it not been for the
protective ozone layer in our atmosphere. The atmosphere around earth
keeps the harmful ultraviolet rays from reaching us. Who was it that
placed this shield around us?
We need to experience sunrise. We need the sun's energy and its light to
see our way during the day. But we also need sunset. We need a break from
the heat, we need the cook of night and we need the lights to out so we
may sleep. Who regulated this process to provide what we need?
Moreover, if we had only the sun and the protection of the atmosphere we
would want something more-beauty. Our clothes provide warmth and
protection, yet we design them to also look beautiful. Knowing or need for
beauty, the designer of sunrise and sunset also made the view of them to
be simply breathtaking.
The creator who gave us light, energy, protection and beauty deserves our
thanks. Yet some people insist that he does not exist. What would they
think if they found a watch in the desert? An accurate, working watch? A
beautifully designed watch? Would they not conclude that there does exist
a watchmaker? An intelligent watchmaker? One who appreciates beauty? Such
is God who made us.

I concur, there is a creator existant, the only thing we differ on is who that creator is.

From a young age i witnessed my first sunset on the roof of a tower block and not a clean one. I sat up there alone for hours just thinking and without the presence of anyone to speak words filled with individualistic sentiments of right and wrong, truth and lies, I was able to rest my mind on the simple beauty and perfection of the creator's sky. I then understood, This world is perfect, the people in it are filled with imperfection and no desire to quell their flaws. Imperfection is humanity's problem. After witnessing such a strickingly beautiful sunset, followed by a twilight of tranquility and finally, a night watching over the city lights that looked like the stars had fallen to earth, I realised I had known nothing in my life that humans didn't make ugly, I realised that it was all created perfect.

I am a firm believer in cause and effect and also the principle of rhythm.

[align=center]"everything flows out and in; everything has it's tides; all things[/align]
[align=center]rise and fall; the pendulum swing manifests in everything; the[/align]
[align=center]measure of the swing to the right is the measure of the swing to the[/align]
[align=center]left; rhythm compensates."[/align]
[align=center][/align]
[align=center]"Every cause has it's Effect; every Effect has it's cause; everything[/align]
[align=center]happens according to Law; Chance is but a name for law not [/align]
[align=center]recognised; there are many planes of causaition but nothing escapes [/align]
[align=center]the law."[/align]
[align=center][/align]
[align=left]These are two very ancient laws of the world that are part of creations very makeup, only a creator could have made something such as this earth, chance is Science's name for law they do not yet know (the big bang is their chance). Since the very beginning the principle of rhythm and the principle of cause and effect have been responsible for all you wrote in your last post, we both agree that divinity is the cause, however we disagree on who's divinity is the cause that created the perfect effect.[/align]

yea i understand that,

the point i was trying to make is that god does exist.. no matter what god, people choose to believe in, he still exists..

The right religion is whatever religion is right for you. The only way to figure out which one is right for you is to learn about all of them. Go to a few different christian churches, jewish temples, islamic mosques, etc. Find one that feels like its a good fit for you. Find one that matches your belief system. i have done this and now i know that the faith i have is the right one for me beacuse it answers all the questions i have about life.. what my purpose in life is.. why i am here.. and why i was put here..

so how do you know what religion is the RIGHT ONE and is there such thing as a RIGHT ONE...

yes there is such thing as the right one, and the wrong one, depending on your perspective, perceptions and spiritual, emotional and mental needs.

What is right for one is not going to be right for another. If you find your peace, and comfort and meaning with out harming others than you have found the right one for you.

Whether religion is man made or not also depends on your values, beliefs and ideology, for those whose faith is strong in a religion that said their religion came from god, they would deny that it is man made. For those who can see the historical trends of man using the spiritual values and ideals of others to form organizations for gain or political power will of course say religion is man made.

It is a question that has no clear answer as it can only be answered by each individual as to what resonates as truth for them.

submission wrote: offtopic.gifofftopic.gif

Just to add, if somebody argues the issue of darkness because of the absence of light, photons are light which are ever present everywhere, just because we can't see it means nothing.... it's there!! there is only light.

just my tupence worth.