The old Jewish law is abolish

DrJames · (#1 (**permalink**))

http://www.rtbpms.com/oldjewishlawabolish.html

HLF · (#2 (**permalink**))

The funny thing is that, for those who anointed to truly know the bible, the God spoken of in the Old Testment, the God of Abraham, never abolished his covenantal laws (Jews today are not Yahudah nor the sons Yisrael, so no point in calling something Jewish that really isn't Jewish in origin). Where has the God of Abraham said through a prophet or messenger, any real anointed one, that tje law have changed in the Old Testament that mentioned His Name? The truth is Christianity as a religion works back from the New Testament to the Old Testament instead of chronologically front to back, let alone most Christians don't study the bible like they should, because if they did they would know that the New Testament is a profane interpretation that was never part of the pre-translated (into present day english,which came from greek/latin) original writings, lacking true spiritual/practical depth, a book of deceptive writing not orded by the hand nor command of the One God. Man decided to abolish the laws, something they have no right to do, but the Creator never did.

DrJames · (#3 (**permalink**))

So why don't we kill sheep and goat, stones witches and kill homosexuals as the old testament laws said?

HLF · (#4 (**permalink**))

DrJames wrote:

Quote:

So why don't we kill sheep and goat, stones witches and kill homosexuals as the old testament laws said?

Notice I wrote of the covenant laws, which doesn't require animal sacrifice. I am talking about the laws that require people to sacrifice their time to give it to observe the Holy Days. The seventh day Sabbath being a most common one, who did Yahweh give the authority to change the Sabbath to the first day from the seventh? That is the deception I speak of in saying that the Law is no more, Yahweh has not said that it stands no longer through any of His people, but man who is in discord with His laws have said so, man has no authority over Yahweh God. I almost forgot, most Christians don't seek the knowledge nor serve the God who brought about all the wonders written in the O.T.

Lev:23:3 -- Six days shall work be done: but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation; you shall do no manner of work: it is a Sabbath to Yahweh in all your dwellings. -WEB Bible

Ex 20:10 -- but the seventh day is a Sabbath to Yahweh your God. You shall not do any work in it, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your man-servant, nor your maid-servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates (-WEB Bible)

ant · (#5 (**permalink**))

Dr James,

I agree with HLF, the law is not Jewish, it is from God - and intended to reach out to all mankind, it was given to the Jewish people, but the moral demands of it are on all people, since what is to be known about God is plain (Rom 1:19)

You know why we don't offer sacrifices, and why we do not condemn people by stoning! Yeshua fulfilled the sacrificial part of the law, and Hebrews chapters 9&10 explain this. Yeshua also told us not to judge, James tells us there is one judge and one lawgiver, and Paul writes:

[10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. (2 Cor 5:10)

If stoning people were part of actions permitted under the new covenant, some people would not have a chance to repent of their sins, but we know about the grace afforded by the new covenant, and that it is God's desire for all men to repent of their sins.

If you read Matthew 5:17-20, Romans 3:31, 1 John 5:1-5, and Revelation 12:17 & 14:12, you will see that the law still stands, though we are not under a mandatory obligation to obey every law, that was what the old covenant demanded. The new covenant is hinted at in the "Old Testament" (Jeremiah 31:31-31), and in the "New Testament" this is repeated (Hebrews 8:8-12). Note Hebrews 8:12 and compare 1 John 3:4, we must let the bible interpret itself - sin is clearly transgression of the law. However, the main difference between the old covenant and the new covenant is that the old covenant required people to do all that was required of the law from their own strength without God's continual assistance. We recognise that the Holy Spirit guides those who have been baptised into it, and enables us to do all of God's will, whether it be obedience to the law, prophecy, tongues or anything else.

Blessings...

ant · (#6 (**permalink**))

HLF,

What you are saying is right, if I remember correctly, you are not a believer (Christian?). There are many denominations of the Christian church which do keep Sabbaths, Seventh Day Adventist, 7th Day Church of God in Christ, Messianic Judaist (not really a part of the "church"). The comon belief that the day of worship changed from the 7th day to the 1st is as a result of the misinterpretation of scripture, and this has been underpinned by the principality of Rome (note Dan 7:25), both in terms of Rulers such as Constantine, and the Roman Catholic Church.

When Yeshua rose on the 1st day of the week, this was actually to fulfill the festival of First Fruits, where the first batch of the harvest was brought in, Yeshua is said to be the Firstboarn from the dead (Col 1:18), because death could not contain him, and this is the harvest that God intended, a harvest of our souls redeeming us from sin - which leads to death, to life, and life eternal. I don't always explain things well, but Romans 6 carries the message well.

However, what we see is that the original intention of God's commandments is sidestepped to let man's traditions take their place (note Matthew 15), and so the significance of Yeshua rising on the first day of the week, and how carefully God planned his statutes and the events in Yeshua's life is lost. And not only that, but the whole body of God's law is undermined, as other traditions take its place, and man looks upon more and more of God's commandments as being relics of the past, if not with contempt.

The effect of this is that "Christianity" has moved away from being what it should, to being a distortion of the truth that actually persecutes those who follow the truth to a greater degree than its own followers.

Peace.

HLF · (#7 (**permalink**))

ant wrote:

Quote:

Dr James,

I agree with HLF, the law is not Jewish, it is from God - and intended to reach out to all mankind, it was given to the Jewish people, but the moral demands of it are on all people, since what is to be known about God is plain (Rom 1:19)

Once again, Jewish people are not the sons of Yehudah nor are they the original people of the book. Judisam is a Pharisaic perversion (aka a religion) of the spirituality of Abraham, Issac and Jacob/Yisrael, which the sons of the twelve sons Yisrael suppose to uphold faithfully forever.

You know why we don't offer sacrifices, and why we do not condemn people by stoning! Yeshua fulfilled the sacrificial part of the law, and Hebrews chapters 9&10 explain this. Yeshua also told us not to judge, James tells us there is one judge and one lawgiver, and Paul writes:

[10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. (2 Cor 5:10)

If stoning people were part of actions permitted under the new covenant, some people would not have a chance to repent of their sins, but we know about the grace afforded by the new covenant, and that it is God's desire for all men to repent of their sins.

If you read Matthew 5:17-20, Romans 3:31, 1 John 5:1-5, and Revelation 12:17 & 14:12, you will see that the law still stands, though we are not under a mandatory obligation to obey every law, that was what the old covenant demanded. The new covenant is hinted at in the "Old Testament" (Jeremiah 31:31-31), and in the "New Testament" this is repeated (Hebrews 8:8-12). Note Hebrews 8:12 and compare 1 John 3:4, we must let the bible interpret itself - sin is clearly transgression of the law. However, the main difference between the old covenant and the new covenant is that the old covenant required people to do all that was required of the law from their own strength without God's continual assistance. We recognise that the Holy Spirit guides those who have been baptised into it, and enables us to do all of God's will, whether it be obedience to the law, prophecy, tongues or anything else.

Blessings...

What is up with this false Messianic doctrine? It is still elevating a man as equal to God, Yahweh. If JC was the only son of God, then who are the other sons spoken of in Genesis 6:2? --"the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were beautiful, and they took any they chose as wives for themselves." Not only that, if Yahweh did not allow Abraham to sacifice his son, what makes you think Yahweh would supposedly sacifice His "only begotten son"?Leviticus 18:21:You shall not give any of your seed to make them pass through [the fire] to Molech; neither shall you profane the name of your God: I am Yahweh. What would make it acceptable if He did not allow Abraham to do what everybody else did for their idols gods of wood and stone? It was not acceptable, yet people will not let go of that lie which they can transfer blame and responsibility to. It isn't anything but the flip-side of the coin that is Christian on the head and Messianic Judaism on the other side, it is just that one is slightly closer to the truth via the original language the OT was written in, the Divine Name of God, etc.

I am not a believer, because believing does not create any thought or pondering for/of knowledge. I am a knower, a seeker of truth and the knowledge of the One true God, Yahweh.

But are we not in the days akin to Kenan unto the days of Noah? Where man sought to fullfill his own rebellious way outside of the one commanded by the Creator? Where man decieved one another, especially those who sought for the truth when the majority of men do not seek it?

ant · (#8 (**permalink**))

HLF,

You wrote:

Once again, Jewish people are not the sons of Yehudah nor are they the original people of the book. Judisam is a Pharisaic perversion (aka a religion) of the spirituality of Abraham, Issac and Jacob/Yisrael, which the sons of the twelve sons Yisrael suppose to uphold faithfully forever.

What is your evidence please?

You wrote:

What is up with this false Messianic doctrine? It is still elevating a man as equal to God, Yahweh. If JC was the only son of God, then who are the other sons spoken of in Genesis 6:2? --"the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were beautiful, and they took any they chose as wives for themselves."

Messianic Judaism does not elevate man to the status of God! What evidence to you base your claim on? Genesis 6:2 apparently refers to the angels who fell from heaven, it denotes intermarriage between angelic beings and humans, giving birth to Nephilim (Giants, Mighty Ones).

You wrote:

Not only that, if Yahweh did not allow Abraham to sacifice his son, what makes you think Yahweh would supposedly sacifice His "only begotten son"?Leviticus 18:21:You shall not give any of your seed to make them pass through [the fire] to Molech; neither shall you profane the name of your God: I am Yahweh.

Because those who sacrificed their children were killing them for nothing. When God allowed Yeshua to die, he did so knowing that death could not hold Yeshua, which is why Yeshua was resurrected from the grave.

[17] The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again. [18] No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." (John 10:17/18)

God presented his son as a sacrifice according to the sacrificial system he himself set in place, not according to pagan standards. You have to read Hebrews 9 and 10 to understand the significance of this. As a believer I have faith that not only does Yeshua's sacrifice on the cross atone for my sins, but his resurrection means I have the promise of eternal life. The power that raised Yeshua from the grave is alive in me now also to prevent me from sinning. That is a central focus of the bible, sin leads to death, death entered the world through Adam and Eve because they sinned. Yeshua has the task of reversing this. Romans chapters 5/6 explain this.

You wrote:

What would make it acceptable if He did not allow Abraham to do what everybody else did for their idols gods of wood and stone?

God did not sacrifice a person meaninglessly according to pagan practices,but raised Yeshua back to lifeto show that God's power is stronger than the power of death. The bible teaches that there are states beyond death, either eternal punishment or eternal life.

You wrote:

It was not acceptable, yet people will not let go of that lie which they can transfer blame and responsibility to. It isn't anything but the flip-side of the coin that is Christian on the head and Messianic Judaism on the other side, it is just that one is slightly closer to the truth via the original language the OT was written in, the Divine Name of God, etc.

I don't think you fully understand the doctrines of Christianity or Messianic Judaism, some of the questions you have already asked show this. Their is a huge gulf of difference between Christianity and Messianic Judasim, even though they use the same scriptures.

You wrote:

I am not a believer, because believing does not create any thought or pondering for/of knowledge.

Is it possible for you to know this if you are not a believer? Or do you think that you have the ability to judge accurately whether other people think or not. I guess yo umust believe any one who is a believer does not think or search for wisdom and knowledge, right?

You wrote:

I am a knower, a seeker of truth and the knowledge of the One true God, Yahweh.

I hope you continue seeking and find the truths that you deserve.

Blessings...

HLF · (#9 (**permalink**))

ant wrote:

Quote:

HLF,

You wrote:

Once again, Jewish people are not the sons of Yehudah nor are they the original people of the book. Judisam is a Pharisaic perversion (aka a religion) of the spirituality of Abraham, Issac and Jacob/Yisrael, which the sons of the twelve sons Yisrael suppose to uphold faithfully forever.

What is your evidence please?

http://www.thelawkeepers.org/bhifaq.htm

Jewish people are not the people of the book, if they were, their righteousness would be the overflowing evidence of the righteous of Yahweh. The nations would not despise them as they do if they represented who they came to represent. Yahweh's nation of priests are called by the name of Yisrael, but overall how many Jewish people speak of that, in terms of being Yisraelite instead of Jewish? Furthermore, according to "Jewish law" jewish identity is carried on through the mother, but clearly in the original and any translation of the Yivree (Hebrew) Word, identity is carried from the male line. Where did Yahweh order this change in the book if Jews are the Yisraelites? Is it not even common custom for women to take men's last or surname? Which is only another example that the Jewish people are fraud heir-pretenders, they are not the descendents of Yisrael.

In traditional Jewish law, Jewish identity is inherited through the mother only.

Quote:

http://judaism.about.com/od/whois4/f/jewishid.htm

You wrote:

What is up with this false Messianic doctrine? It is still elevating a man as equal to God, Yahweh. If JC was the only son of God, then who are the other sons spoken of in Genesis 6:2? --"the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were beautiful, and they took any they chose as wives for themselves."

Messianic Judaism does not elevate man to the status of God! What evidence to you base your claim on? Genesis 6:2 apparently refers to the angels who fell from heaven, it denotes intermarriage between angelic beings and humans, giving birth to Nephilim (Giants, Mighty Ones). Genesis 6:2 shows that there was not only one son of God, but many created sons of God, but as most believers "believe", they don't know the difference.

It does elevate "Yeshua"! Prayers to Yahweh in Yeshua's name? Is that not elevation? Why would a servant of Yahweh pray to Him in the name of Yeshua, or Moses, or Aaron, or even Isaiah? That is ascribing a partner unto Him, and there is no equal to Yahweh.

Because those who sacrificed their children were killing them for nothing. When God allowed Yeshua to die, he did so knowing that death could not hold Yeshua, which is why Yeshua was resurrected from the grave.

[17] The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again. [18] No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." (John 10:17/18)

God presented his son as a sacrifice according to the sacrificial system he himself set in place, not according to pagan standards. You have to read Hebrews 9 and 10 to understand the significance of this. As a believer I have faith that not only does Yeshua's sacrifice on the cross atone for my sins, but his resurrection means I have the promise of eternal life. The power that raised Yeshua from the grave is alive in me now also to prevent me from sinning. That is a central focus of the bible, sin leads to death, death entered the world through Adam and Eve because they sinned. Yeshua has the task of reversing this. Romans chapters 5/6 explain this.
Where does it say in Yivree(Hebrew) that YHWH sacificed His only begotton son? Even in Greek where is it? Where is Yahweh's name in the New Testament if it is truly He who JC/"Yeshua" of the (Greek) NT served? If the OT and the NT were written by the same people by the Divine Will of Yahweh, not only would it be in the same language, Yahweh's name would be through the whole book. I looked far and wide in the Interlinear Bible, which has the original languages both books were written in. Yahweh's name and declarations are within what is called the OT, but is NO WHERE in the NT! This is the deception I am talking about.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

God did not sacrifice a person meaninglessly according to pagan practices,but raised Yeshua back to lifeto show that God's power is stronger than the power of death. The bible teaches that there are states beyond death, either eternal punishment or eternal life.

How can there be eternal punishment or eternal life if there is no Divine law anymore to judge everyone on as some believe?
If you speak of the God of Abraham, who is Yahweh, Yahweh did not and does not permit the sacrifice of any man nor child in His name for the sins of anyone. There is no evidence with the authenication of His name that He allowed such. "God" can be anything because it is a general title, but just as a man has a defined name, so does the One God: Ex 3:15 --

God said moreover to Moses, "You shall tell the children of Israel this, 'Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, and this is my memorial to all generations.(WEB Bible)

Quote:

Do you refute that Yahweh did not sacrifice any of His sons for the sins of men? Where does it explicitly state in the Divine Word (Hebrew Bible/OT) that He did and that He said that He did?

You wrote:

It was not acceptable, yet people will not let go of that lie which they can transfer blame and responsibility to. It isn't anything but the flip-side of the coin that is Christian on the head and Messianic Judaism on the other side, it is just that one is slightly closer to the truth via the original language the OT was written in, the Divine Name of God, etc.

I don't think you fully understand the doctrines of Christianity or Messianic Judaism, some of the questions you have already asked show this. Their is a huge gulf of difference between Christianity and Messianic Judasim, even though they use the same scriptures.

At the core it is the same (God and the "son of God", "the messiah", he died for our sins and is coming back), Messianic Judaism may know more in reference to the languages of the bible and the holy days but my point is far deeper than any religion common explains.

http://www.messiahtruth.com/response.html
Website snip:

Messianic Judaism is a Christian movement that began in the 1970s combining a mixture of Jewish ritual and Christianity. There are a vast and growing numbers of these groups, and they differ in how much Jewish ritual is mixed with conventional Christian belief.

Quote:

Even Christianity is a mixture unto itself; it is based in Egyptian theology (NT) that the Greeks attempted to merge with the Divine Word (OT), but anyone who has read both books and really discerned between what the two books teach would KNOW.

You wrote:

I am not a believer, because believing does not create any thought or pondering for/of knowledge.

Is it possible for you to know this if you are not a believer? Or do you think that you have the ability to judge accurately whether other people think or not. I guess yo umust believe any one who is a believer does not think or search for wisdom and knowledge, right?

Most believers assume, in a real spiritual debate what do the religious fall back on? The "I heard" doctrine that is not spiritually enriching them at all. A "believer" may search, but if a believer searches and finds true wisdom and knowledge, they are no longer believers, they will be knowers; this is the difference between wisdom/knowledge and belief , that which is knowing. Who provides Divine and priceless wisdom from ancient days? If wisdom and knowledge is what one might seek, wouldn't the Source of that wisdom, knowledge and truth be sought foremost?
Both are intertwined, finding the absolute of one will lead to the other....as they say, you'll never know until you know. Everyone who seeks to know can know, but the majority will tell you the opposite of that truth.

You wrote:

I am a knower, a seeker of truth and the knowledge of the One true God, Yahweh.

I hope you continue seeking and find the truths that you deserve.

Blessings...

In reference to the spiritual truth, I will continue to seek the whole truth.
As for you, I hope all that you have written is in "belief" and not full knowledge of the truth, because if that is so, you can bet this will be written up in your file (every deed of men is recorded) as misleading people from the truth. If you think I'm B.S.ing, Yahweh will even show you Himself exactly what you are doing, how it is leading people away from the truth and the effect on you for that action. Don't half up the truth and then speak of blessings, what blessing is that if you aren't representing the truth that you so claim? You are sending tares instead of any spiritual/mental blessings of Yahweh-God.
That is what a real blessing is about spiritual growth and a lie won't help anyone grow spiritually!

To to tell the whole truth as it is, not only does Judaism deviate from the whole truth, so does Christianity and all the religions, because they are not spirituality. The Divine Law that Yahweh declared has not been abolished, and that is the straight truth without any disguises ("Jewish") over the top of it.