WHOS OPPRESSED? NOT I

submission · (#1 (**permalink**))

have noticed a similarity among western women who rant on and on about how the Quran promotes the oppression of women. Do you reckon that Western women are INSECURE,

Cos' it seems to me, they have this intense dislike for anything that 'seems' remotely oppressive. What happened to democracy and human rights in America? Are the women there so fearful and insecure that if they let a bunch of rules into their lives, that would be the end of their freedom? that's what it looks like to me.

Independence and rights are gained/promoted also by a woman's dignity, morals, education, etc. - ESPECIALLY in the fair and indiscriminating society the west claims to have. Don't your women have enough of those to assert her independence and rights? If she did, she wouldn't have to worry about something as secular as religion would she?
You know what I think OPPRESSION It is the need to conform to ideas of beauty and other external qualities that dominate modern societies today. In a modern society, almost every woman at one time or other is disturbed, depressed because she is overweight, because her skirt isn't short enough, because she feels she needs larger physical attributes and does not have the money for plastic surgery, that she doesn't have fancy clothes or the right make up on.[/i]
[/i]
[/i]THAT IS OPPRESSION. The constant need to look beautiful as society prescribes so that you don't feel inferior or so that you get this job you really want and so on. Can you very confidently say that this is not a problem in modern socities and that it is a form of oppression of women?[/i]

submission · (#2 (**permalink**))

ASK ME

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwlc80vKvvI

Afriki · (#3 (**permalink**))

submission wrote:

Quote:

have noticed a similarity among western women who rant on and on about how the Quran promotes the oppression of women. Do you reckon that Western women are INSECURE,

Cos' it seems to me, they have this intense dislike for anything that 'seems' remotely oppressive. What happened to democracy and human rights in America? Are the women there so fearful and insecure that if they let a bunch of rules into their lives, that would be the end of their freedom? that's what it looks like to me.

Independence and rights are gained/promoted also by a woman's dignity, morals, education, etc. - ESPECIALLY in the fair and indiscriminating society the west claims to have. Don't your women have enough of those to assert her independence and rights? If she did, she wouldn't have to worry about something as secular as religion would she?
You know what I think OPPRESSION It is the need to conform to ideas of beauty and other external qualities that dominate modern societies today. In a modern society, almost every woman at one time or other is disturbed, depressed because she is overweight, because her skirt isn't short enough, because she feels she needs larger physical attributes and does not have the money for plastic surgery, that she doesn't have fancy clothes or the right make up on.

THAT IS OPPRESSION. The constant need to look beautiful as society prescribes so that you don't feel inferior or so that you get this job you really want and so on. Can you very confidently say that this is not a problem in modern socities and that it is a form of oppression of women?

ok, well, since I already probably outted myself as a feminist in the other thread, i guess i'll have a go at this one.

Independence and rights are gained/promoted also by a woman's dignity, morals, education, etc. - ESPECIALLY in the fair and indiscriminating society the west claims to have.

This could be true, except that (in my personal belief) certain rules pressed onto these women, in terms of wearing a chador and not being in public w/out a familiar male presence (i'm only somewhat familiar w/the Quran, and as i've understood laws have changed both to accomodate as well as dispute its teachings, so forgive me if i'm not 'up do date') were not created and are not maintained to promote women's dignitiy, it is purely (again, in my opinion) to promote MALE dignity. women must cover up so that the MEN aren't tempted. In an adulterous/pre-marital affair, the WOMAN may be stoned to death in order for her father's dignity to be restored (the man, i think, gets away w/100 lashes in many cases and his misdoings are blamed on the "looseness" of the woman).
It seems that it is the way of Quran that women express dignity through supression of action (aka OPRESSION) while men are encouraged to act.

i see what you are saying about western comformity, but since when is religion non-conformist? It's not a western thing, it's a human thing.
You could replace the desire to fit in by wearing certain clothing w/the idea to conform w/the Quran by wearing a chador. it's ALL conformity.
that was your question, right?

submission · (#4 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Afriki: WROTE

ok, well, since I already probably outted myself as a feminist in the other thread, i guess i'll have a go at this one.

Independence and rights are gained/promoted also by a woman's dignity, morals, education, etc. - ESPECIALLY in the fair and indiscriminating society the west claims to have.

This could be true, except that (in my personal belief) certain rules pressed onto these women, in terms of wearing a chador and not being in public w/out a familiar male presence (i'm only somewhat familiar w/the Quran, and as i've understood laws have changed both to accomodate as well as dispute its teachings, so forgive me if i'm not 'up do date') thats right your not up to date. wearing the hijab the islamic clothing women wear is not a law which is pressed on them. its something they choose to wear.

Quote:

YOU KNOW HOW I LEAD MY LIFE? like millions of womenaround the world I live my life in an independant way...my father does not force and
tell me what I should study in college, he does not force me to get married to someone i do not wish to marry, he does not tell me how to dress as long as it's modest....WHAT HE DOES TELL ME IS THAT I CANNOT DRINK, SMOKE OR
HAVE PREMARITAL SEX! Is that wrong in your
eyes?. and who told you that these women are not allowed step out side their houses withouta male presence, where you get that from..

Quote:

were not created and are not maintained to promote women's dignitiy, it is purely (again, in my opinion) to promote MALE dignity. women must cover up so that the MEN aren't tempted. In an adulterous/pre-marital affair, the WOMAN may be stoned to death in order for her father's dignity to be restored (the man, i think, gets away w/100 lashes in many cases and his misdoings are blamed on the "looseness" of the woman). again this is not true.. wheredo youget this from..I recommend a book to you. It's called "Daughters of another Path" by Carol Anway. It's a compilation of accounts of 53 American women who chose to become Muslims. Among the various reasons is that Islam offers in its rules a freedom to women which societies like that in the West do not have to offer. Please do read this book. It will give you an insight into women and Islam from the viewpoint of an American instead of "us backward Moslems".

Quote:

It seems that it is the way of Quran that women express dignity through supression of action (aka OPRESSION) while men are encouraged to act. have you read the quran yourself, if not then how can you come up with this conclusion. i am gonna give you something to think about Has your modern society ever had a female leader? do women even RUN for elections? What happened to the independance and rights of women? Do you know how many Islamic countries were and are still ruled by women?

i see what you are saying about western comformity, but since when is religion non-conformist? It's not a western thing, it's a human thing.
You could replace the desire to fit in by wearing certain clothing w/the idea to conform w/the Quran by wearing a chador. it's ALL conformity.
that was your question, right?

like you said its a human thing. so why does west see muslim women as being oppressed when they oppress their women.

Have you any idea of the extent to which domestic violence is rampant in America AND other parts of the world which have little or negligible number of Muslims? Domestic violence is a social problem rampant in the USA....and how many percentage of the offenders are MUSLIM? Here, it is unfortunate I have to use such sad facts to an advantage of any sort. I quote the statistics of your "modern society"

Stats from Family Violence Prevention Fund of the USA

Almost four million American women were physically abused by their husbands or boyfriends in the last year alone.
A woman is physically abused every nine seconds in this country.
Two-thirds of attacks on women are committed by someone the victim knows -- often a husband or boyfriend.
More than one in three Americans have witnessed an incident of domestic violence, according to a nationwide survey released by the Family Violence Prevention Fund (FUND) last year. Nearly nine out of ten Americans say that women being beaten is a serious problem facing many families -- and concern cuts across race, gender and age lines.
Forty-two percent of murdered women are killed by their intimate male partners.

so what are the reasons for domestic violence among non-muslims in America? I mean they don't have the Quran which tells them they can hit their women. So what do you say? what is the cause of the majority of domestic violence cases? HITTING WIVES is a social problem. That is why it cuts across all barriers of race and culture and religion.

MuslimTruthRevealed · (#5 (**permalink**))

Assalaam Alaikum

Never ceases again to amaze me at the misinformed statements attributed to the Quran. 'Stoning of women', 'women are required to be covered' 'accompanied by men', 'hitting women', etc.

These are NOT Quranic precepts they are CULTURAL.

My question is

What is the difference between Womanism vs Feminism?

submission · (#6 (**permalink**))

MuslimTruthRevealed · (#7 (**permalink**))

Alhumdillah