 Unrighteousness and Righteousness |
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Unrighteousness and Righteousness -
18-09-07, 08:52 PM
Please read slowly.
Are any of these statements correct?
1. Unrighteous people can change, become righteous people and live righteously because they try hard.
2. Unrighteous people can change, become righteous people and live righteously because they have been given the power to live righteously.
3. Unrighteous people cannot change to become righteous people.
4. If an individual feels righteous then that individual is righteous regardless of what other people think.
5. Righteousness does not exist.
6. Righteousness is relative.
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18-09-07, 11:14 PM
I know this is not what you asked. I apologize.
but from the Christian perspective I can say this. a man can not be rightous apart from God and through Jesus Christ. Even then at best we can make some righteous choices at times.
but as paul said when he would do right evil is always present.
can an unrighteous man become righteous...yes...through Jesus Christ righteousness is imputed unto him.
can a man do it by trying hard...no...a man can know the bible from beginning to end and back to the front again by rote and not act righteous toward his fellow men or some.
for a man to call himself righteous outside Jesus Christ would mean that a man could stand before God and say to Him that I am as right in my speech and action as you or Jesus is.
Out 'standing' before God is as righteous because of the finished work of Jesus at the Cross and the blood He offered to the Father.
Our state is the condition that we are in presently because of our actions or inaction.
The need to appear correct becomes more important than the truth....JJRousseau]
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19-09-07, 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meknow
I know this is not what you asked. I apologize.
but from the Christian perspective I can say this. a man can not be rightous apart from God and through Jesus Christ. Even then at best we can make some righteous choices at times.
but as paul said when he would do right evil is always present.
can an unrighteous man become righteous...yes...through Jesus Christ righteousness is imputed unto him.
can a man do it by trying hard...no...a man can know the bible from beginning to end and back to the front again by rote and not act righteous toward his fellow men or some.
for a man to call himself righteous outside Jesus Christ would mean that a man could stand before God and say to Him that I am as right in my speech and action as you or Jesus is.
Out 'standing' before God is as righteous because of the finished work of Jesus at the Cross and the blood He offered to the Father.
Our state is the condition that we are in presently because of our actions or inaction.
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So you mean that Christians can/will sin but as long as they remember to ask forgiveness they will still be saved as occasional sinners?
Last edited by RESS; 19-09-07 at 03:16 PM.
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20-09-07, 12:04 AM
Salvation is a free gift [ For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:22-23 (KJV)]
those who are saved and sin willfully or incidentally are not getting away with anything [But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Romans 14:10 (KJV)].
try reading 1 Co. 3:5-16.
There are lots of people who claim to be christians and are not. Probably the saddest verse in the bible is found in Matt 7:23 where the Lord is telling some to depart from Him that he never knew them. These are those fake Christians who show up for reasons other than worship. thus "depart from Me", says Jesus. You can not depart if you are not near. "I never knew you", these people think that they belong to Him.
The need to appear correct becomes more important than the truth....JJRousseau]
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#6 -
20-09-07, 01:00 AM
Factors of time, place, environment, culture, morals, mores all play an intricate part in this attribute...!
 The Sibyls: the First Prophetess’ of Mami (Wata) by Mama Zogbé:  :
Alkebulan is the 'Cradle of Modern Civilization'
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20-09-07, 02:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fine1952
Factors of time, place, environment, culture, morals, mores all play an intricate part in this attribute...!
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True fine:
all these things contribute to righteousness.
but i still say that man can not be righteous except at times without the righteousness of God.
The need to appear correct becomes more important than the truth....JJRousseau]
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20-09-07, 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meknow
Salvation is a free gift [ For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:22-23 (KJV)]
those who are saved and sin willfully or incidentally are not getting away with anything [But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Romans 14:10 (KJV)].
try reading 1 Co. 3:5-16.
There are lots of people who claim to be christians and are not. Probably the saddest verse in the bible is found in Matt 7:23 where the Lord is telling some to depart from Him that he never knew them. These are those fake Christians who show up for reasons other than worship. thus "depart from Me", says Jesus. You can not depart if you are not near. "I never knew you", these people think that they belong to Him.
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So what you understand the Bible is saying is:
1. The unrighteous who become Christians and are born again know what sin is and so whenever they sin they do it willfully because they know better. These Christians (fake) will face judgement and cannot be saved because they willfully lived an unrighteous and sinful life.
2. The unrighteous who become Christians and continue to live an unrighteous life continuing to sin are liars and will not be saved.
Correct?
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20-09-07, 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fine1952
Factors of time, place, environment, culture, morals, mores all play an intricate part in this attribute...!
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So you are saying that righteousness is relative and it is all about the individual's understanding of "time, place, environment, culture, morals etc".
Correct?
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20-09-07, 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RESS
So what you understand the Bible is saying is:
1. The unrighteous who become Christians and are born again know what sin is and so whenever they sin they do it willfully because they know better. These Christians (fake) will face judgement and cannot be saved because they willfully lived an unrighteous and sinful life.
2. The unrighteous who become Christians and continue to live an unrighteous life continuing to sin are liars and will not be saved.
Correct?
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nope, kind of twisted it up a bit.
fake Christians are not saved at all. like Judas they are hanging around. they never were saved. they can be saved if they accept Christ as their Savior. What I pointed out in Matthew is that Christ will speak to these and give them the message that He never knew them as His own which he knows as scripture says. depart from me speaks of the proximity of these people.
any one can be saved. "Who so ever will, let him or her come..."
The need to appear correct becomes more important than the truth....JJRousseau]
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20-09-07, 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meknow
True fine:
all these things contribute to righteousness.
but i still say that man can not be righteous except at times without the righteousness of God.
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Are you saying that the unrighteous person who becomes a true Christian "can not" become righteous and live a righteous life without sin?
So the true Christian can be unrighteous and live an unrighteous life of sin and do good things occasionally.
Correct?
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20-09-07, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meknow
nope, kind of twisted it up a bit.
fake Christians are not saved at all. like Judas they are hanging around. they never were saved. they can be saved if they accept Christ as their Savior. What I pointed out in Matthew is that Christ will speak to these and give them the message that He never knew them as His own which he knows as scripture says. depart from me speaks of the proximity of these people.
any one can be saved. "Who so ever will, let him or her come..."
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So fake Christians are not saved at all. They were unrighteous before becoming Christians and continue to live an unrighteous life even after being born again.
True Christians are saved and unlike the fake Christians live a righteous life without sin.
Correct?
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20-09-07, 03:07 PM
Depends.
Some people are born bad others are shaped, conditioned into being so.
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