I believed that Jesus walked on water
I believed that Jesus fed the multitudes.
I believed that Jesus walked in the clouds
I believed that a Virgin gave birth to a God.

However, these days I recognize that my former thinking was a serious break in reality because I know:


1. Quantum physics will not justify JC walking on H20.

2. Trigonometry nor calculus can calulate the bread and fish JC supposedl fed to the masses.

3. A hologram will not help JC float in the clouds.

4. The science of Anatomy & Physiology won't help the delivery of a baby by a spirit w/o the aid of intercourse.

Hence,


1. The sun does walk on water when it sets over water at dusk.

2. All that bread and fish still doesn't add up .

3. The sun does stream, float through the clouds.

4. Every single human birth (e.g. no exceptions) must come forth via and X/Y Chromosome.

But then again, I would willingly empty my pockets too if I "believed" in the holy ghost and surrendered to the sensationalism of the preacher ranting and raving on scripture and the choir rocking and shaking the church house down.

Nah! I choose Ma'at.

well madam the points you made only prove that He was God. you are absolutely correct in your scientific rationale. man could not have done what Jesus did. you forgot turning water into wine, raising the dead, stilling the storm, giving sight to the blind, making to lame to walk, casting out demons, healing the sick, cleansing lepors and many more.

thnaks msfine

Salaam (Peace) to all...

If we take such things as literal, then there is no way one can make sense of them. One will either be thrown into confusion and superstition, or reject it altogether.

However, "what if" there is another way to look at these passages?

What if this is all symbolic imagery with prophetic implications?

"...Jesus walked on the water..."
Could this mean that he was supported by the masses of the people?
Could it mean that he was supported by his Faith?

"...Jesus fed the multitudes..."
Could this mean that he fed them KNOWLEDGE and WISDOM (two fish) and broke open the FIVE PRINCIPLES of SERVICE (five loaves)?

"...Jesus walked in the clouds..."
Well...I don't recall reading this in the Bible, so I can't offer an interpretation for this one...lol.

"...a Virgin gave birth to a God..."
Could this "virgin" be actually a PEOPLE who had never given birth to a Deliverer since the time they were in bondage?...A PEOPLE who had never been given a messenger from God.

We often say, in the Nation of Islam, that, "If you don't understand the Bible, you can go into it a fool, and end up coming out of it an even bigger fool."

We would do well to look for the "esoteric" value of a thing before we dismiss it as nonsense.

RM

do you ujderstahd what you have been told were allah's method of creation?

I'm afraid I don't "ujderstahd" the question...lol...

Aside from the typo...could you explain a bit what you mean by this question?

Thanks.

RM

well the typo was supposed to be understand. that should have been pretty easy for you to figure out mrmuhammed. a man of learning like your self. i will try to use my spell check a bit more.

but hitting on the run kind of cramps me style a bit.

the question is do you understand how allah created. is it something that you understand or you take by...faith? Do you understand how He did it?

you can not understand how Christ is said to have done the things He did or God what He did.

do you claim to understand how Allah created?

in other words if allah willed it to be so could a man walk on water? are thre miiracles in the koran?

a miracle is such that can not be explained by human intellect. it is not a miracle if it is understood by men. jehovah is able to do what He wills.

There is no "he". The SPIRIT OF GOD is nameless.

msfine:

your god may be genderless but Jehovah is certainly male.

God made woman equal to man but with a different and equally important role in the universe.

If I understood how Allah Created the Universe, that would mean I would be able to do it myself...lol. I understand that Creation is the result of a definite, Mathematical Process of Arrangement of Matter and Energy.

In order for there to be LIFE, there must first be MOTION, and that MOTION has to be given ORDER; and that ORDER is the result of establishment and implementation of LAW.

This we can easily see if we but study Creation and the dynamics involved in it.

I understand that Allah (God) does not have to violate His own Law and Integrity just to accomplish His Aims or communicate His Will. If I take your view, then I have accept that "serpents" talk...and that Jesus was actually after saving some "sheep", and not People.

If what we read in scripture is not known to exist in Nature, then we must consider that it is either a falsehood, or a symbolic expression of something that DOES exist in nature.

Terms like "miracle" and "supernatural" describe the limits of the observer's understanding, not the nature of what they are observing. Anything that can be experienced can be explained. The question is, do we really WANT an explanation, or are we more comfortable with our imaginations?

In Islam, we have a saying:

"One learned believer is harder on the devil than a thousand ignorant worshippers."

What is a "learned believer"?

What is an "ignorant worshipper"?

Which one are YOU? (Or I, for that matter)

I want to be a "learned" believer...what about you?

"STUDY to show thyself APPROVED unto God...."

Study WHAT????

RM

......in the Quran 'How' humans are created, assembled and dismantled...physically, spiritually and intellectually....

Its all there......


Embryology in Qur'an


[Al-Mu'minun 23.14] Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; THEN WE DEVELOPED OUT OF IT ANOTHER CREATURE. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!

sorry but that is who we procreate. how did allah bring something from nothing? creation...first cause...primus maxius...do you understand how allah created not only man but the universe...as mrmuhammed said the answer is no.

so therefore to assume that the Creator could not cause a man to walk on water or the sun to stand still, turn water to wine is not a valid argument. God can do as He pleases.

mr.muhammed implies that allah does not use miracles because he does not have to 'violate' (what law is God subject to?) His laws. God is bound to science hmmmm.

Try this:

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the w