Mr.M...:

You say that you have been a Christian and that you still study the bible. I have admitted that my knowledge of the quran is very minimal at best and none existant at worse. But i dare say that I have begun to pick up on something that stands out in the message of the two.

I can tell you the intent of God (Jehovah) to the believers. Can you enlighten me to what you believe Alllah's intent was in His delivering the koran to muhummed as your belief says.

One of the Beautiful things about the Holy Qur'an is that it is not necessary to guess about Allah's purpose for revealing it, as His Purpose for revealing it is clearly stated in the Book, itself:
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2:2 This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who keep their duty,
3 Who believe in the Unseen and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given them,
4 And who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are sure.
5 These are on a right course from their Lord and these it is that are successful.

2:97 Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel, for surely he revealed it to your heart by Allah's command, verifying the which is before it and a guidance and glad tidings for the believers.

2:185 The month of Ramadan is that in which the Qur'an was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the Criterion.

2:213 ...and He revealed to them the Book with truth, that it might judge between people concerning that in which they differed...

3:3 He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Torah and the Gospel aforetime, a guidance for the people...

6:19 ...this Qur'an has been revealed to me that with it I may warn you and whomsoever it reaches. Do you really bear witness that there are other gods with Allah? Say: I bear not witness. Say: He is only One God, and surely I am innocent of that which you set up (with Him).

6:93 And this is a Blessed Book We have revealed, verifying that which is before it, and that you may warn the mother of the towns and those around her. And those who believe in the Hereafter believe in it, and they keep a watch over their prayers.

6:156 And this is a Book We have revealed, full of blessings; so follow it and keep your duty that mercy may be shown to you,

7:2 A Book revealed to you ... that you may warn thereby, and a Reminder to the believers.

13:37 And thus have We revealed it, a true judgment, in Arabic. And if you follow their low desires after that which has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allah no guardian nor protector.

14:1 I, Allah, am the Seer. A Book which We have revealed to you that you may bring forth men, by their Lord's permission, from darkness into light, to the way of the Mighty, the Praised One,

14:52 This is a message for the people and that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is One God, and that men of understanding may mind.

16:44 With clear arguments and Scriptures. And We have revealed to you the Reminder that you may make clear to men that which has been revealed to them, and that haply they may reflect.

16:64 And We have not revealed to you the Book except that you may make clear to them that wherein they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.

16:89 And on the day when We raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these. And We have revealed the Book to you explaining all things, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.

16:102 Say: The Holy Spirit has revealed it from your Lord with truth, that it may establish those who believe, and as a guidance and good news for those who submit.

18:1 Praise be to Allah! Who revealed the Book to His servant, and allowed not therein any crookedness,
2 Rightly directing, to give warning of severe punishment from Him and to give good news to the believers who do good that theirs is a goodly reward,
3 Staying in it for ever.

21:10 Certainly We have revealed to you a Book which will give you eminence. Do you not then understand?

38:29 (This is) a Book that We have revealed to you abounding in good, that they may ponder over its verses, and that the men of understanding may mind.

39:41 Surely We have revealed to you the Book with truth for (the good of) men. So whoever follows the right way, it is for his own soul, and whoever errs, he errs only to its detriment. And you are not a custodian over them.

mr.muhammad:

God's purpose for men is pretty clear!!! >>> 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth1 Tim 2:4 (KJV) <<<

ALL MEN to be saved???

Then why does the Bible prophesy of a Judgement and the destruction of the wicked?


Ezekiel 9
2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.
3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.


Matthew 10
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.


Matthew 13
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Matthew 21
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.


Luke 19
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.


John 8
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


Romans 2
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:


Romans 9
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


2 Thessalonians 2
8 And then shall that Wicked One be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


2 Peter 2
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;


Revelation 9
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.


Revelation 11
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Revelation 13
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


Revelation 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Revelation 19
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


God only wants those who want HIM...the rest, according to the Bible, will be KILLED!

RM

simple mr.muhammad:

because ALL men will not accept Jesus Christ and his deliverance. Those men unfortunately are doomed to eternal damnation in the lake of fire that burns forever. you have an opportunity mr.muhammed. If you would just ask Jesus to come into your heart and save you.

He will surely come to you.

Let's chew on something here mr.muhammed.

If Adolph Hitler has cried out to Jesus Christ moments before he perished and confessed that he was a sinner and believed that Christ died for his sins and asked Jesus to save him, would he be in heaven after the Judgements are complete?

how about mother Teresa, all the great works she did and had she never cried out and asked Him to saved her could she end up in the lake of fire?

what sayeth thou?

chew on this one:

8 For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life: 9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: 10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;
2 Cor 1:8-10 (KJV)

Just had to add this, Jude (Judas) the brother of Jesus...

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: 2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.


3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jude 1:1-7 (KJV)

And as we say down here in Louisiana....I eeeeeee!!!

I hate to just jump in like this. But, let me just clarify one little point or two. All Muslims accept Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him) as one of the greatest of the prophets. So, this "damnation" you refer to clearly does not apply to Muslims.

The issue between most Christians and Muslims is this tendecy to submit to adolatry and other forms of deification on the part of some Christians. What has hppened in the course of western history is that Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him) has been made to appear to replace GOD Himaself or at least to be co-equal to GOD Himself. It is clear to Muslims, and it is one of the Five Pillars of Islam, that nothing and noone is to be compared to the Creator Supreme. No matter how much we venerate Jesus, Moses, Abraham or any of the prophets, including Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon all of the prophets) Only Allah is the Creator Surpeme. Thus, Jesus, like Muhammad, Moses, Abraham and all of the prophets (Peace and Blessings be upon htem all) was Created by Allah. There is really no need to specualte about all of the minute details and possibilities involved.

you need to read the bible and see what Jesus said about God. Do that.

Read the bible to understand what is being said and not as a muslim if you can.

I hesitae to get into this. But, I find it somewhat troubling. I do not understand how a Muslim, one who was a Christian, can apparently accept some of the more questionable parts of The Bible. In the first place, I would refer you to The Black Messiah by Rev Albert Cleage. This book was an eye opener for me. I had all but given up on all things Chjristian until I read the book. But, seeing The Gospels from Cleage's perspective, I was able to reconcile my African nationalism and Pan-Africanism with Christianity. From there, I was able to see GOD's Mercy towards mankind. This is what led me to Islam. From Islam, I am able to accept The Gospels. Prior to this, I was totally perplexed. This caused me to loose a lot of faith.

So, bear with me as I try to show you step by step why I take issue with the following.


[quote]The above verses are taken from . We can allow for the possibility that even this part of The Bible is not 100% reliable in the English language due to faulty translations, at least. But, considering that so much damage has been done to The Bible as a whole, we can never accept any parts of it that conflicts with Qyur'an. Nevertheless, for the sake of this discussion, we will assume that it is mostly acceptable.

Here, we have verses from The Gospel of Jesus. So far, so good. Most of this is rendered as quotes from the Holy Prophet Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him). But, even a causual reading of Mathew, Mark and Luke reveals discrepantancies among the three. There are differences in the three accounts. One may cite facts that others do not cite, and vice versa. We can accept this as just an indication of their humanity. In other words, no two eye witnesses can ever see exactly the same thing. So at best, we have what is reported from three different perspectives. Even so, none of it can be considered as the direct, verbatim Word of even Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him) much less the Word of GOD.

Rev Cleage shows us that this is cool. So far, so good.

The problems begin to arise when we get into The Book of John. For one thing, there are several Books of John. I am not familiar with all of the details of how these all relate to each other. But as you see below, The Book of Revelation is sometimes attributed to John. There is much symbolism there. And, I know of no two readers who agree 100% on what all of these symbols actually mean. But, cool. No one knows or understands everything that GOD has said to us. My opinion is that each individual gets a unique message from at least some of these symbols. On the other hand, we musty remain vigilant at least to the point of being aware that tricks have been played with The Bible.

Continued below.

This is a continuation of the post above: