I was watching a tv program the other day, whilst watching I heard someone exclaim "Mother of God". I sat for a few minutes and began to think on what was just said and hence the subject of this thread was born, Does God have a mother ?.

I constantly over the years have battle with muslims and certain branches of christianity over how they believe God to be, or even what they believe God to be.

Certain terms such as Mary mother of God, we hear them a lot, but have you ever taken the time to really dissect what is being said.

God in the scriptures tells us that ultimately he is the first and the last. He is the embryo (seed) of all things and of all life. For Mary to be mother of God would have implications. Did Mary give birth to God ? Then God is not self existant ?.


I don't want to go too much into this right now, first I would like to see others thoughts on this, I have my view already but wish to hear others explain these terms and whether they are misused and if so what does it mean for those organizations which use such terms. And in general their thought on the topic in hand.

Bismillaah. Salaam/Peace, Justavoice. Of course this is something left over from the councils of Nicea, when they invented a god to worship as man, then decided on three gods, with one god being the mother! Isn't this so? Think about it.


Wassalaam. OriginalBM

Mary the mother of God?

Isn't that that Jesus worship stuff... Christianity?

mis information BL, that is not the way it is cuz.

Don't guess. Research.

Goggle: "Council of Ephesus" Theotokos Mary.

Hotep.

sa - ptah:

just like all who write or have written about islam not all that is written in books about Jesus is true.

as i have said many times you can do a google and get a hit on what ever take you want to fit an agenda. the majik of the .net. i urge everyone to be careful of what you google on the net.

heck you can find an essay by people who believe having sex with kids and animals is good for you and their right.

to use the tools of the net you better have some wisdom and judgement of your own mindset of you could easily be spurred away into so bad stuff.

more than likely the program was a Christian affiliate.

The Christian God trinity {e.g. a direct copy of Ma'at} is expressed as:

Father
Son
Holy Spirit

The GOD of Afrikan GOD Consciousness's trinity is expressed thusly:

Father
Mother
Son

Your question is valid because it reveals the imbalance of Christianity versus the balance of Ma'at.

--------

"...In the ancient spiritual tradition, their is deep respect for the Mother Creator and the female priestess as well as for the Father Creator and the male priest..."

Page 12, "Sacred Woman" by Queen Afua

OriginalBM Wrote:

Bismillaah. Salaam/Peace, Justavoice. Of course this is something left over from the councils of Nicea, when they invented a god to worship as man, then decided on three gods, with one god being the mother! Isn't this so? Think about it.

Wassalaam. OriginalBM


OriginalBM, I don't think they invented a god to worship ? but i do kind of understand where your coming from. It seems strange to me and I do often argue that a people who had not known the light of God, took it on themselves to be the ones who would formulate a unified christian doctrine. When other peoples who had come in contact with God prior to them did not set about doing this? and not because they didn't think to, but they knew it could not be done.

What i'm trying to say is the Nicean council is a red herring. We are taught to think all things European, but the religion and i use the term "religion" very loosely here did not begin in Europe and this we must always keep at the forefront of our minds. Yes the Nicean council happened, but we must ask ourselves who were the men that inspired this council ? were they of God ? was the council born out of divine direction ?. I would answer No to all the questions and I would do this off the back of the results that came out of the Nicean council.

They came up with a three person deity only because they had not the understanding that can only come through divine connection with God to guide them through the maze that is God's word. And yet it is not a maze if one would humble themself to be guided through it. They became stuck when dealing with the relationship (meaning of ) between Father and Son.

Black Lion Wrote:

Mary the mother of God?

Isn't that that Jesus worship stuff... Christianity?

Exactly my point Black Lion, Mary Mother of God as nothing to do with Jesus. In fact if we read the scripture you will see then any kind of glory that was given to Mary or Jesus the Christ brethen was batted out the park by him immediately. He gave them no kind of accolade at all. Not to disrespect Mary the Mother of Christ but the only accolade given to her was that she was "blessed amongst women" and that was it. The Mary Mother of God was something concocted by the Catholic Church and the aforementioned Nicean Council and came out of their lack of understanding regarding the books they had before them.

@Sa-Ptah who wrote:

Googled it and what I saw only showed that there was controversy in the time over the same question. Was Mary the God-Bearer or the Christ-Bearer.

Little do they know that she was both if one understood whom the expected Christ that the Hebrews long awaited would be ?
Isaiah said he would be called Emmanuel, meaning "God with us". Isaiah was an Hebrew who would have been taught the Shema. Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

So If Isaiah, wrote God with us, prophesying of the Christ to come then really we should piece together who Jesus was. but don't want to take the conversation off track too much.

@Fine1952

No it wasn't a Christian affiliate program, just some random show.
However you speak of Afrikan God consciousness and then go on to speak of maat. I also know where this argument can lead to. However not everything Egyptian, like the Nicean Council is understood. Infact I believe a great misunderstanding as happened in regards to the writings left by the ancient egyptians. It is my view that the wise men of Egypt wrote down the coming of the Christ upon the walls, but the message was misconstrued. They too knew of a King who would come to lead a people into the afterlife and so like the prophets wrote as if it were their Kings. Its why I believe Jesus through prophecy had to journey into Egypt being the King of whom those wise egyptians foretold. Remember the bible teaches that Moses was schooled in all the wisdom of the Egyptains. However when speaking of Wisdom the bible also tells us that King Solomon's wisdom surpassed the wisdom of all the son's of the East and all the wisdom of Egypt. What I get from this is that Egypt was renowned for its wisdom in that time. However let us not forget that the Hebrews sojourned in Egypt at one point also, so who really understands the messages being conveyed from these tombs and writings ?.

Africans have been in Europe for how long, and our culture and ways as rubbed off and can be clearly seen in the behaviour of Europeans in many ways. However if time was left to go on, and we should read back over a present day history what went on, you might be mistaken that only Europeans accomplished anything that was worthwhile if at all you looked at the text left behind and images from tv ? do you get what I am trying to say, for their way is to make it appear that their culture is the dominant or (mainstream).

As for the the mother creator of which you spoke, again I have another angle on this. I don't believe that God who is masculine shares a type of equal power or space with a female type God. However i do have an understanding of God having a bride on earth, but that is more scriptural knowledge at play there.

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. Salaam/Peace. The contact between The Prophet 'Issa [Jesus, PBUH] and Allah; All Praise, Honour, and Glory Be To HIM, was seemingly at so short a distance, that, the appearance which one was given, or, was derived from it was one of Prophet 'Issa being always in touch with Allah, The Glorious, The Forever Blessed. [This was the original condition of man/woman, before the 'fall' to earth.] But, the people of His time, - and thereafter, it seems - were unable to fathom this and erred by calling The Prophet, Messiah 'Issa, Allah; The Praiseworthy, The Subtle.

5:72. They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.
5:73. They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.
5:74. Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
5:75. Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!
5:76. Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."
5:77. Say: "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way.
5:78. Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses. Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation


It is not possible for the finite/human intellect to grasp Divine Knowledge. This is why negation/denial, of the lower 'self,' is necessary before "Perfection" can take place. I cannot understand why man would accept such responsibility, only to turn his back on it and follow foolishness. Everyone wants to be a god, and are never able to stop declaring themselves as a god, or so it would seem. However, hardly any of them do the least bit of work to raise their consciousness to Allah, All Glory Be To HIM.

33:72. Lo! We offered the trust unto the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it and were afraid of it. And man assumed it. Lo! he hath proved a tyrant and a fool. Pickthal's Quran Translation



Actually, the reason that I said a god was invented, is because according to some histories, there was much book/scroll burning to hide certain truths. Additionally, there is still much forgery extant in the epistles, etcetera, of Christianity. Why burn the sources of knowledge that would bring/give, the understanding of the very discrepancies that was causing disagreement? And, on it goes, even to this day, the same misunderstandings about The One GOD, Allah. It would seem that Islam; - submission to The One GOD - alone, has the truth!



Wassalaam. OriginalBM

@OriginalBM

Your Quran or Koran, makes mention of Issa or Isaiah ..

Have you ever read the book of Isaiah ? Do you cross reference the things said by Isaiah the prophet with those things said in the Quran ?

And if in reading you find disagreement, which is what your seeing right now, do you then just come to the conclusion that the writings of Prophet Isaiah should be discarded for the writings of Prophet Mohammed.. How do you arrive at your decision over divinely inspired writings ? especially in that you wrote:

"It is not possible for the finite/human intellect to grasp Divine Knowledge".

Then how is man to comprehend those things that are God if he will never grasp them? How does he discern truth ?

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. Salaam/Peace. The Prophet Jesus, PBUH, is known in Islam as 'Issa, or Essa, etc. Isaiah, is mentioned in Qur'an as Dhul-Kifil re: The Noble Qur'an, by Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali and Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan; 21:85, 86; 38:45-48. But no, I've never cross referenced the Bible's Isaiah, with the Qur'an, but I will look into it a little more. Thanks.

What I was referring to re: the finite/human intellect, is that the lower self, rejects Spiritual matters, or has no interest in them. This is why some people do not believe in a God. Their lower self is in control of their brain consciousness. It is generally known as 'nafs' (in various stages) in Islam. So, it can grow if allowed. Some people see it as a personal Satan! It's really a struggle for most of us.

Sufism, Sufis, and Sufi Orders: Sufism's Many Paths [re: Obstacles on the Path.]



Wassalaam. OriginalBM