The beef is in the very first post in this thread. It continues in a couple more posts. There is a lot of evidence for those who have eyes to see. My question to to you is, do you have the presiecnce and brain-power to understand it when you see it. It makes no sense for me or anybody else to spend valuable time and energy digging up all kinds of "evidence" if you are too ignorant or blind to accept is when it is presented.

Actually, I will look around to bring more evidence just to prove the point.

Lets get this straight before YOU try to take the focus away from my original point... MY point dear boy was that here was you big bad man crying VICTIM like some bitch..yet not two seconds ago you're acting all big and bad because the Sudanese authorities is beating down on some old WHITE woman..wow i guess tha told her didn't it VICTIM!!!

My point to you is please lay of the the oh woe is me crap..I'm not buying it.. if you feel its ok for others to take a tough line..then accept the tough line when it applied to you.. Just as you feel offended when you percieve EUROPEANS are taking the piss out of the Prophet Muhammed..[peace be upon him] I and many other take great exception when ill informed, ill mannered and ignorant idiots like you disrespect Great people from our history...

I take exception when people lie, and lie openly in a dishonest way, deliberately twisting and misrepresenting the words of the man, in a malicious and disrespectful way on a web site that i manage... If you look you will in all of the 14000 plus post never find one that does that to your prophet.. so please do not come here and take the piss...

Finally don't try and twist and squirm your way outta of your own words, this here is NOT your house ok, so please stop with the crap... your words 'when in rome' well I'm telling you that this is OUR Rome and YOU will respect it or you will be REMOVED got it now dipstick!!?

Are you brain-dead, too?

Oh dear oh dear.....maybe you ought to learn to do the simple things like READING and COMPREHENSION that way you reply might have been in CONTEXT... so on the theme of LAZY AZZ ClOWNS.. can I just advise you that the issue is whether Chancellor Williams was an 'Agent' as alleded by the author..and despite your so called research you have STILL failed to address that central point or provide any evidence that supports this outrageous and stupid assertion.. So as they say DOCTOR HEAL THY SELF!!!!

To re-clarify anybody can find an opposing theory to a theory put forward, Chancellor Williams like all researchers and theorist clear documented his methodology to just that end, His transparency allows and invites debate and counter theory thats the WHOLE point STUPID!!!

However what I took except to is the dishonest and misrepresentation of his word with the direct intention to infer that this man was something he clearly was not...THAT is the point!!! So again I will ASK you to provide EVIDENCE in line with the THEME of this thread.. and NOT evidence that opposes his findings in his book..do you get it now you idiot?

Finally on the point of your clear hypocracy, I once again point out that YOU are talk with fork tongue, you wish to assert your rights over others in the most violent way possible when YOU perceive that they have insulted all that you hold dear, YET you think it is ok to INSULT what others hold dear and worse then cry like a bitch, when other rough you up and hold you to account... HYPOCRITE you demanded in your own words that when in your ROME outsides should OBEY and respect YOUR rules, but then cry like bitch when other DEMAND that you obey their ROME and their RULES.. Sorry but you cannot have it BOTH ways HYPOCRITE!!!

In this ROME, in THIS house you will not disrespect us..or those who we hold dear, do so and you will be shown the door without warning got that now, good!!!!

I will be back to debunk and drive a coach and horse through the so called evidence you laughingly call a defense of your view ROFL...joker!!!

Is this your private property or not?

Forum: maybe someone with better skills than I can explain to this person, who obviously has stupidity as his FIRST language, why the post above proves nothing and is riddled with inconsistencies...

For example abdurratln Starts off his reply to the question that i've asked time and time again where is the proof to back up the claim that Chancellor Williams was an 'agent'...Its a simple request, very clear in its direction I thought...

What do i get? This nonsense: An agent? Clearly Williams worked for the Us government. Muslim Truth "Alluded" to it. Now how in the hell can that sentence be correct..if I allude something about someone..how can that be a FACT... a FACT is not something one alludes to..a FACT where i come from is something one produces which is verifiable, evidenced and has objective supporting evidence to back it up...

The fact that the USA was involved in the Sudan at the same time as Chancellor Williams choose to do a piece of research..does not prove anything except that some muslim have a fervent imagination to add 2+2 and still make 5...

Listen abdurratln I want EVIDENCE..ie CIA documents stating that he was a member of that organisation, I want pictures of the man in the company of KNOWN CIA operatives.. I want a DIRECT link between his work and CIA doctrine... How bloody hard can it be to produce concrete proof if you say it is so prevalent?

I don't want to hear, read or see no he said, she said business, I do not want no he alluded to crap..

I've said it very clearly, time and time again, if you disagree with the mans work, that is YOUR opinion, if you think he got it wrong that is YOUR opinion.. If you do not TRUST him again that is your OPINION and your progative... But these by themselves is not a FACT..and does not PROVE that he was an AGENT... so please get real and stop slandering the mans name with YOUR OPINIONS!!!

abdurratln: on the issue of Malcolm X...can i say this to you...whilst i will not pretend to be an expert on Islam, or to know a great deal about the religion..this by the way is by CHOICE...not ignorance.. The one thing i have gleaned from all the Muslims i have met and know is that they are no liars... So it compells me to ask why you try so hard to buck this tread...

I say this because either you're a liar or you clearly have not READ either Chancellor Williams book or that of Malcolm X... if you had read Brother Malcolms book... that from pg 12 onwards in the Foreword Alex Hayley talks in detail about how the idea for writing Malcolms autobiograpgy came about and then he goes on to discribe in detail their relationship and how Malcolm dictated his thoughts and views to Hayley over a significant period to the books conclusion...in fact on pg 14 Hayley talks about Malcolm signing the contract to write the book and then goes onto describe what Malcolm wanted done with the proceeds of his autobiography... So please can we dispense with this paranoid nonsense about whether Malcolm collaborated with this book or not... Clearly given the detail contained therein had must have...

Now lets deal with Chancellor Wiliams methodology, you say it does not meet 'minimum standards' .. My point to you is REALLY? When i hear comments like that my first question is always this.....WHOSE standards are we talking about... and WHERE did that standard come from....? Howver even setting aside that ill inforned view, it is obvious if you had read his book, that he did maintain not only a standard but a good standard in view... He clearly discussed his thought process, he clearly discussed which countries he visited and WHY, he also discussed in detail his reasoning for visiting those countries...and more importantly he was very HONEST from the get go.. by stating that he had to curtain his studies because his sight was failing... Otherwise he would have gone on for a further 5 years.. he said that openly...

The man did not say..he works were the ONLY truth, or the definative history on AFRICA... and in his bibliography he cites as is expected his mny sources of information, which include for me the greats like Blyden, WEB Dubios & Eric Williams...to name a select few... Yes he also sourced material from white folks, but he openly admits this from the outset and explains why he did it...

You also argue against the mans style of writing, well i can see that point, however using a style to bring to life a narrative is hardly a criminal offense is it... I can make reference to other historical books of non fiction that reads more like fiction..this again is not proof of anything except perhaps that his style of narrating a story is not everyones cup of tea...

I'll conclude on this point..that for me it ok to debate, ask questions and challenge people's argument.. I think however it is a bit rich to cal someone an 'Agent' when there is no proof..its dishonest and a cheap lazt shot...

John Henrik Clarke was a “Staff Member” of the CIA backed and funded African American Institute

“The School Services Division of the African-American Institute (AAI), organized in 1969, served as the center of a vibrant national program to inform Americans about Africa……..Scholars who have given their time to elementary and secondary classroom practitioners. In a sense they represent the conscience of the profession, and their response to teacher requests for help has resulted in improved classroom instruction about Africa. Among others they include JOHN HENRIK CLARKE, JOSEF BEN JOHANNAN, Terence Ranger, Basil Davidson, lmmanuel Wallerstein as well as E. Frank Bernard, Bob Walter, Graham Irwin, Tilden Le Melle, George Houser, Beryle Banfield, and Hollis Lynch.”

Reference: Outreach Imperatives in the Ninth Decade: A Teacher's View
Evelyn Jones Rich, Issue: A Journal of Opinion, Vol. 10, No. 3/4, African Outreach. (Autumn - Winter, 1980), pp.
42-44.



“In the fall of 1968, after a pilot project in Harlem, [African American Institute] AAl's Office of Educational Services to the Community offered two in-service teacher education courses in cooperation with the New York City Board of Education. These courses exposed teachers of African history and geography, societies and cultures. They also included sessions on the importance of African studies to both students and teachers, planning instruction, developing materials, identifying effective audio-visual aids, and pupil evaluation. The STAFF [of the African American Institute] included outstanding blacks and whites in the various African studies disciplines.” (See note #17)

“17. Beryl Banfield, John Henrik Clarke, Graham Irwin, lmmanuel Wallerstein among others.” Page 39

Reference: Good News and Bad News: African Studies in American Schools, 1955-1975, Evelyn Jones Rich, Issue: A Journal of Opinion, Vol. 6, No. 2/3, Africanist Studies 1955-1975. (Summer - Autumn, 1976), pp. 33-40.

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“The American “Africa Research Group” had concluded that “that it was the CIA which played the crucial role in stimulating interest in African affairs in the United –states…In 1954 it was the CIA that put the African-American Institute (AAI) on a solid financial footing, in close co-operation with the American Metal Climax Corporation, the African mining concern whose Chairman became the AAI’s big angel. As the national central intelligence, the CIA understood that generating information and contacts in Africa was a priority if the U.S was to be assured access to the Continent’s “emerging” political leaders and economic resources.”

Reference: (tecolahagos.com - ethiopian related issues and commentary)


Article by the Africa Research Group titled ‘The CIA as an Equal Opportunity Employer’ appeared in 1969 in Ramparts magazine presenting convincing evidence that ‘the CIA has promoted black cultural nationalism to reinforce neo-colonialism in Africa,’ it was reprinted in the Black Panther newspaper to support the analysis that similar tactics were being employed closer to home.

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“One of the results was the National Defense Education Act of 1958, which affirmed a national awareness that we were, indeed, behind the Russians-not only scientifically, but also in our receptivity to other peoples and cultures. ..... NDEA funding gave African studies the push it required to establish itself in the community of scholars as well as the nation as a valid and important field of study.”

Reference: Good News and Bad News: African Studies in American Schools, 1955-1975, Evelyn Jones Rich, Issue: A Journal of Opinion, Vol. 6, No. 2/3, Africanist Studies 1955-1975. (Summer - Autumn, 1976),


NDEA expired in the early 1960s, Congress passed the National Security Education Act in 1991, which created the National Security Education Program (NSEP)

“Africanist associations, including the ASA, AASP, and ACAS, for more than a decade have opposed the Department of Defense and CIA being involved in the funding, determining priorities, and oversight of foreign language and area studies. ....The Board that advises the Secretary includes the Director of the CIA, along with the secretaries of Commerce, Education, and State; Directors of the USIA and National Endowment for the Humanities; and six Presidential appointees. ....the federal government transformed the National Defense Education Act (NDEA Title VI) a number of years ago into the Higher Education Act, a number of area studies scholars have questioned the wisdom of re-inventing a foreign language and area studies program operated directly by the military. (Some in the House Select Intelligence Committee also have questioned the wisdom of giving CIA funds to the NSEP for public education programs ...."

Reference: National Security Education Program: Who's setting the agenda?
By David Wiley II Journal: Modes of Expertise: Response to David Cohen

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For those interested in how much money the African American Institute receives:

The African-American Institute


To Be Continued....NEXT 'Focus"....Chancellor Williams

Stay Tuned!!!!