First of all, I think and I believe that it is absolutely wrong to fault any of the holy prophets (Peace and Blessings be upon them all); but especially Moses the Lwa Giver. It is by law that we become civilized.

But, as usual my main issue is with Meknow.

God is Most Merciful, Most Gracious. This is proven by the mere fact of Creation. Thus, Grace does not begin with Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him). Surely Moses showed GOD's Grace and Mercy when he led the slaves to freedom and civilization.

Yes, this is true. Which is why, for me, the only Path that is not hypocritical is to remain outside all "isms".

The title of this thread is "The problem with Christianity". If you start another thread to discuss the problem with all religions, I will be happy to participate in that.

This was not just some any man talking. The bible claims that Moses himself commanded the Hebrews to kill men, women and boys, and then to kidnap the girls who were virgins. Either Moses was an incredibly evil demonic beast of a man, or the bible is in error about what really happened. I am inclined to think that the bible is in error.

I am not saying the bible is worthless. It has been a great source of wisdom and guidance in my life, along with the Bhagavad Gita, the principal Upanishads, the Metu Neter, and the Corpus Hemeticum. But, I read them all with a discerning eye, knowing that there will be some words therein [such as Numbers 31 in the bible, or some of the ideas in the first three chapters of the Gita regarding man's duty to fight religious wars] which are is in COMPLETE contradiction to the One God who is Love.

New Testament "dispensation" is one of those christian concepts, along with "once saved always saved", and "sinner saved by grace", that are not verbatim from the bible. Somewhere along the way, some Christian took some words from the bible that sounded kinda similar, officially declared what the orthodox interpretation was to be, and now Christians do not even stop to consider whether or not these concepts conform with the red words in the bilble.

As for your "retribution", that sounds too much like Thor waving his mighty hammer at Bush's evil-doers.

The problem with deifying men is that church folk end up thinking anything their holy books say those men said or did has to be the Will of God.

NOI church folk have deified Elijah Muhammad, hence, his fairy tale about Yacub in "Message To The Blackman" MUST be True.

Zionist church folk have deified Moses, hence, it MUST be okay for them to kill Palestinians and steal their land since the Tanakh says Moses did the same thing to the Canaanites.

As I have said many times istlota, that God gives man the choice to believe what he chooses to believe or disbelieve. I also said that because there is one apple or three that is bad in the box does not make the whole box bad.

much of the prophesy in the bible was written long ago. all has been fullfilled except endtime prophesy like the rapture, second coming, great tribulation, 1000 year reign of Jesus, the war of Armegeddon and a few others. Everything prophesied about Israel has come true except the Great Tribulation prophesies where they will again pratice Judism in the rebuilt temple.

I have seen God do miracles. I have cast demons out in the name of Jesus, I saw a young man raised from the dead in Jesus name, know of a young girl who had drowned raised from the dead, have seen specific prayers answered too many times to not believe that God is Jehovah and Jesus is His only begotten Son who died on the tree and was raised from the dead to prove to man God's hatred for sin and love for man in the same act.

I too studied most of the isms you mentioned. You see I too left home with the intent of never darking a church door again in 1968. i did not for many years. I asked Him to show Himself strong to me and He did. Ask and though shalt recieve, seek and though shall find. There is none like God in all the earth and the heavens.

Don't blame God for man's faults.

You have just demonstrated, exactly, "The Problem With Christianity". You have read several posts by me. Posts where I have stated:

• I value the bible and have studied it all my life.
• I never lost faith in the bible, or Jesus, just Christianity.
• God created man in his own image.
• And, in my last post, I described God as "the One God who is love", which in also how Jesus describes God in Mark 12:28-33.

Yet, you deduced from all this that I "blame God for man's faults". This is what is wrong with Christianity. You write off people, no matter how pious, as sinners on their way to eternal damnation [Thor's mighty hammer] if they do not buy into Christianity's peculiar dogma regarding:

• Jesus being, not just God, not just God embodied in man, but the _only_ embodiment of God as man.
• The physical bible being the infallible, literal, beyond error, Word of God.

Jews pray to the same God as Jesus, who was a Jew. Gandhi, a Hindu, not only honored Jesus, but studied the bible on a regular basis. Muhammed also revered Jesus and the bible. And, I, honor Jesus, the bible, and God.

Yet, Christianity says, despite all that, Jews, Gandhi, Muhammed, and I will all burn in Eternal Damnation [Thor's mighty hammer] unless we accept the aforementioned Christian dogma.

This is exactly what is wrong with Christianity. Traditions of men, grandfathered in by Constantine's councils, and enforced under penalty of death and torture, have become the sibboleth test of whether or not a person is "saved".

Men should beleive in the teachings of Jesus, NOT the traditions of Christianity. The prophets in the bible not only agree with me on this, but even foretold of the apostasy [falling away] of your Christianity:

Colossians 2:8

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

I Timothy 4:1

"Now, the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils."

II Thessolonians 2:3

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth, and exalteth himself above all this is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

Meknow, you are on the wrong side of this struggle. Just open your eyes. Listen with your ears. Constantine was a Beast of a man who boiled his wife to death at the request of his mama. Which religion named both Constantine, and his mama, as saints?



Just look at who is currently sitting in the white house. Another modern day antichrist, a head of the Beast who took no shame in referring to himself, proudly, as a "war president". A son of the devil who, in an interview with Larry King, made a joke out of executing a female prisoner when he was governor of Texas [this was "anti" the example of "Christ" to be found in the gospel of John chapter 8]. To which religion does this modern day antichrist's most loyal voting bloc belong? What Does That Tell You About Your Christianity?

He never said that we were not elohim(gods) he said that we would die like men and fall one of the princes.

Isaiah 64:6 has nothing to do with this topic.

The "we" is important because even back then the yahdahim (jews) were not the only ones who believed and there were a lot of yahdahim (jews) that did not believe. you are trying to say that the bible was written for the jews but it was not it was written for those who wanted to be "saved". The bible says that he so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. Not just the jews the world.

So the verse says what it say and that is that we are gods lesser gods maybe but gods none the less.

And I know what christ(kristos) and messiah(mashiach) means.......Our anointing comes from Yahweh not Yahshua......There were men that were anointed before the coming of the Mashiach,

Shalom.

Istlota:

I have not condemned you or anyone. It is my impression though it could be wrong that you have given up on Christianity because of men's implimentation or lack there of.

I do not apologize for my steadfast confidence in the teachings of Christ. I am just as dogmatic about being a believer as you are about being a non believer. I see where the apostle Paul wrote letters to different churches about issues that were occuring in them from incest to slavery. I don't see how and why any Christian can be self righteous with the language of the bible.

Now you say you value the bible. Or do you mean certain parts of it. Wouldn't the bible mean the bible? Just asking, not assuming anything. Kind of like we call "cotton patch christians". they pick out the parts they like and disregard what they don't. Just asking though. Then of course what you mean by value is a quality or quanitive thing. So what you mean by value may mean a little or a lot. Just asking though.

Now I am a Christian and have no reservation about saying that the teaching I adhere to is not being followed by confessers. But you as a non adherent use the same term readily giving cause such as me writing off people. Christianity does not tell us to do such a thing and if I have then i am wrong. We are not the judge. I go to prisons at every chance and knock on doors where i am not welcomed. I never give up on people.

What I think you are meaning is what the bible says about those who do not confess Christ as their Savior as in John 3:16 - 18. Sorry Istlota, I did not write that. God said it. If you choose not to believe it, then that is your choice. But because you don't I will not stop speaking what I believe is the truth because you don't accept it. you have told me what you believe, I am not offended.

Now it would seem to me that giving up on people would be to do as I often see some christians do which is to walk away from those who they do not have patience for and shake the dust off their feet. there is a time to do that but it must be preceeded by much labor and longsuffering.


Yes a part of Christian teaching is that the unsaved will burn (not up) but forever in the lake of fire. why if you do not believe it does it bother you. the muslims have told me what allah will do to me at the judgement, i don't even respond to it. I just don't see what the issue is meself. but who am i?

lastly I have nothing to do with what constantine did or what he was. I believe that the bible was inspired by God. I believe in the bible as it is and from my study have seen nothing to indicate that the council did anything but pulled together books that complimented each other and eliminated others that had scriptures that stood on their own. They did not say that they were wrong but that the scriptures that were accepted must have at least two other places that agreed with that particular tenet. I think that this was wise. You may not that is your choice.

george bush is not a a favorite of mine. I never voted for him and think that he has placed america and the world in a tizzy. i know that evangelicals were fooled into voting for him in droves both times he was elected. but they see now how they were used, but too late. so don't blame buhs on me or God, it was slick politicing that got him in by carl rove.

i am sorry if i offended you, but i believe that we ought to be able to speak our minds.

Isaiah 64: 6 has everything to do with it. you say that the scripture says that we are to be like gods. well Isaiah says that before god even our righteousness is as filty rags or what the women used during menstral cycles and threw away. do gods die as men?

You do not agree that the bible was written "to" Jews about their history (Old Testament) and to believers (New Testament)

1 Sam. 1:1 - Now it came to pass after the death of Saul....OT

Deuteronomy 1:1 - These be the words which Moses spake to Israel...OT

Proverbs 1:1 - The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel...OT

Isaiah 1:1 - The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah...OT

Malichi 1:1 - The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malichi...OT


Take a look at the four Gospels, see who you think they were written to. Check out the direct quotes that were used that were to unbelievers and you will see that they were basically during a confrontation or something like that. They basically are about the life of Jesus. Now I can really see the apostles sitting down to write these books to unbelievers. come on...

Now as for the rest:

Acts 1:1 - Do a little research and find out who Theophilus was that Luke was writing to here...NT

Romans 1:1, 7 - Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ....to all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints....NT

1 Corinthians 1: 1, 2 - Paul,....Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ...NT

Ephesians 1:1 - Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to all the saints which are at Corinth....NT

1 & 2 Timothy - Find out who Timothy was....NT

Titus - Research it...NT

Philemon - 1 & 2 Paul a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy our brother, unto Philemon our dearly beloved and "fellow labourer, And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house...NT

James 1:1 - James a servant of God aand of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad...NT

And last but not least, The Revelation 1:1 - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass....NT

Can you find a chapter or book which give a salute or salutation to those who do not believe or the sinners at babylon or wicked of sodom...?