I can see how you would believe that it is promoting slavery. You believe that slavery is the worst thing that has happened to blackmen.

I understand that you do not accept Paul like I do not accept muhammed even as a prophet. so you are jaded in that respect from being able to see what the scriptures say.

can you tell me how God feels about slavery? can you tell me how one might become a slave in those days?

Certainly there were some people who abused slaves like most of the slave owners in America. but what do you think paul should have said instead? should he have preached revolt. Go to some historians and read of what was done to run away slaves and to slave revolts. revolting did not free us here in America.

Read on down in that 6th chapter of Ephesians and see what he said to the masters.

none of the verses you gave show anything toward promotions of slavery. He is preaching being passive and not defiant.

Slavery is not desirable in any circumstances but it has been since he beginning and among all men even muslims who you say preach against slavery. some muslims enslaved people and would you say that these promoted it.

[quote]Wasn't it? Or, do you have a worse senario?

Brother Dr. Walter Rodney estimates that the popu;ation of Africa did not increase for 300 years as a direct result of slavery, in his book How Europe Underdeveloped Africa, The population remained stagnant at about 300 million while there was natutal popualtion growth in the rest of the world and un-natural population growth in the slave societies of the west to the tune of hundreds of million. Plus, perhaps one hundred or more million died in transport to the slave markets.

On top of that, slavery was replaced by colonization whichis another form of slavery. Only now does Africa begin to show modest Economic Development, now that slavery has finally been defeated, except in Palestine.

Actually, whether you like or accept Saint Paul or not, he is certainly not even comparable to a prophet of GOD (Peace and Blessings be upon all of the prophets.) It would appear that you do not know the difference between prophets and non-prohets. But, there is a definite difference.

But frankly, I do accept Saint Paul; but, not as a prophet. Not even The Bible claims that he was. What I like about Saint Paul is his ability as an organizer. He organized the early church even though he compromised on slavery to do so. Therefore, he has left us an example that we can emulate as we proceed to organize the African Nation.

Now what ya got to say about that, Mr Smarty?


[quote]can you tell me how God feels about slavery?
You will know how GOD feels about it on Judgement Day. In the meantime, in between time, I repeat once again what is Written:

Genesis 15:14 (Whole Chapter)
But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions.

Exodus 6:6 (Whole Chapter)
"Therefore, say to the Israelites: 'I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the yoke of the Egyptians. I will free you from being slaves to them, and I will redeem you with an outstretched arm and with mighty acts of judgment


Exodus 9:21 (Whole Chapter)
But those who ignored the word of the LORD left their slaves and livestock in the field.


Leviticus 25:42 (Whole Chapter)
Because the Israelites are my servants, whom I brought out of Egypt, they must not be sold as slaves.

Leviticus 26:13 (Whole Chapter)
I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt so that you would no longer be slaves to the Egyptians; I broke the bars of your yoke and enabled you to walk with heads held high.

Deuteronomy 5:15 (Whole Chapter)
Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Deuteronomy 6:21 (Whole Chapter)
tell him: "We were slaves of Pharaoh in Egypt, but the LORD brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand.

1 Kings 9:22 (Whole Chapter)
But Solomon did not make slaves of any of the Israelites; they were his fighting men, his government officials, his officers, his captains, and the commanders of his chariots and charioteers.


2 Chronicles 8:9 (Whole Chapter)
But Solomon did not make slaves of the Israelites for his work; they were his fighting men, commanders of his captains, and commanders of his chariots and charioteers.


2 Chronicles 28:10 (Whole Chapter)
And now you intend to make the men and women of Judah and Jerusalem your slaves. But aren't you also guilty of sins against the LORD your God?

Ezra 9:9 (Whole Chapter)
Though we are slaves, our God has not deserted us in our bondage. He has shown us kindness in the sight of the kings of Persia: He has granted us new life to rebuild the house of our God and repair its ruins, and he has given us a wall of protection in Judah and Jerusalem.


Ecclesiastes 10:7 (Whole Chapter)
I have seen slaves on horseback, while princes go on foot like slaves.


Jeremiah 34:8 (Whole Chapter)
[ Freedom for Slaves ] The word came to Jeremiah from the LORD after King Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people in Jerusalem to proclaim freedom for the slaves.


Jeremiah 34:9 (Whole Chapter)
Everyone was to free his Hebrew slaves, both male and female; no one was to hold a fellow Jew in bondage.


Jeremiah 34:10 (Whole Chapter)
So all the officials and people who entered into this covenant agreed that they would free their male and female slaves and no longer hold them in bondage. They agreed, and set them free.

Jeremiah 34:16 (Whole Chapter)
But now you have turned around and profaned my name; each of you has taken back the male and female slaves you had set free to go where they wished. You have forced them to become your slaves again.

Zechariah 2:9 (Whole Chapter)
I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. [ Or says after ? eye: 9 "I ? plunder them." ] Then you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me.


Acts 7:7 (Whole Chapter)
But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves,' God said, 'and afterward they will come out of that country and worship me in this place.' [ Gen. 15:13,14]

Romans 6:6 (Whole Chapter)
For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, [ Or be rendered powerless] that we should no longer be slaves to sin—


Romans 6:20 (Whole Chapter)
When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.



1 Corinthians 7:23 (Whole Chapter)
You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men


Galatians 4:8 (Whole Chapter)
[ Paul's Concern for the Galatians ] Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods.

2 Peter 2:19 (Whole Chapter)
They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.

The above quotes are taken from this cite: Bible Resources, Online Bible, Read the Bible, Search the Bible, Bible Study Plan, Passage Search, Keyword Search. It amazes me that one who claims to be knowledgeable about The Bible appaers to be unaware of these verses.

Below is what GOD has said to us about slavery in Qur'an (Quran Index Koran index Qur'an Word Search topic search research study alphabetically organized index Koran Quran

[2:177] Righteousness is not turning your faces towards the east or the west. Righteous are those who believe in GOD, the Last Day, the angels, the scripture, and the prophets; and they give the money, cheerfully, to the relatives, the orphans, the needy, the traveling alien, the beggars, and to free the slaves; and they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat); and they keep their word whenever they make a promise; and they steadfastly persevere in the face of persecution, hardship, and war. These are the truthful; these are the righteous.

[4:25] Those among you who cannot afford to marry free believing women, may marry believing slave women. GOD knows best about your belief, and you are equal to one another, as far as belief is concerned. You shall obtain permission from their guardians before you marry them, and pay them their due dowry equitably. They shall maintain moral behavior, by not committing adultery, or having secret lovers. Once they are freed through marriage, if they commit adultery, their punishment shall be half of that for the free women.* Marrying a slave shall be a last resort for those unable to wait. To be patient is better for you. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.


[5:89] GOD does not hold you responsible for the mere utterance of oaths; He holds you responsible for your actual intentions. If you violate an oath, you shall atone by feeding ten poor people from the same food you offer to your own family, or clothing them, or by freeing a slave. If you cannot afford this, then you shall fast three days. This is the atonement for violating the oaths that you swore to keep. You shall fulfill your oaths. GOD thus explains His revelations to you, that you may be appreciative.


[9:60] Charities shall go to the poor, the needy, the workers who collect them, the new converts, to free the slaves, to those burdened by sudden expenses, in the cause of GOD, and to the traveling alien. Such is GOD's commandment. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.

[24:33] Those who cannot afford to get married shall maintain morality until GOD provides for them from His grace. Those among your servants who wish to be freed in order to marry, you shall grant them their wish, once you realize that they are honest. And give them from GOD's money that He has bestowed upon you. You shall not force your girls to commit prostitution, seeking the materials of this world, if they wish to be chaste. If anyone forces them, then GOD, seeing that they are forced, is Forgiver, Merciful.


[58:3] Those who estrange their wives in this manner, then reconcile thereafter, shall atone by freeing a slave before resuming their sexual relations. This is to enlighten you. GOD is Cognizant of everything you do.

[58:4] If you cannot find a slave to free, you shall fast two consecutive months before resuming sexual relations. If you cannot fast, then you shall feed sixty poor people. You shall believe in GOD and His messenger. These are GOD's laws. The disbelievers have incurred a painful retribution.


Thus, we see that throughout all Scripture there is a general thrust against slavery; except in cdertain parts of the Pauline Gospels.

[/quote]

The same way that people have become slaves thoughout the history on mankind. The first incidence was when Satan seduced Eve (Peace and Blessings be upon her) into slavery. Hypnotism is still used today to enslave people to ignorance and sin. For those of us wise enough to resist seduction, force is used. Thus, slavery is a violent crime against GOD. Or, it is a more subtle, smooth maneuver against GOD by means of seduction.

Bull. Again. of course. It was exactly the Revolt of Nat Turner and many other slaves such as what happened in Haiti that led to John Brown's campaign which ignited the Civil War. The slaverholeders fired the first shot because they saw the handwriting on the wall when Lincoln was elected.

You read what he said to the masters. All I care about is what GOD said, not what Paul said, to us slaves.

Exactly. This is contrary to the whole spirit of GOD's Messge to us of Grace and Mercy. This is why I know that some blond-haired, blue-eyed, pale-skinned, half-naked slave-master tampered with The Bible. Common sense.

[/quote]

Right. Some fools in the Muslim Community did participate in slavery. No denying it. But, Islam, like Judaism and true-blue, for real Christianity is against slavery and has been against slavery since Eve first eat that fruit that Sartan gave her.

Now I hate to do this abd, but your continual misstatements I will have to point out that you are either a big liar or really stupid.

You just said in the one of the above post that I said he was a prophet and that the bible also said such.

That is a lie straight from hell abd.

Paul did not say he was a prophet, the bible does not say he is and I certainly did not say such a ludicrous thing.

now don't tell me that you are that stupid to believe that the civil war was fought to free or keep the slaves? please tell me that you don't think lincoln gave a shyt about the slaves.

please abd don't tell me that.

Well, it sure is a relief to see that you understand what I have been trying to say all along. You are not as dumb as I thought. You have just been deliberately trying to mislead us here on this forum. Anyway, I am glad you finally see the Light.

It is critically important that Africans undersatand that Saint Paul is not a prophet. Therefore, it makes absolutely no rational or intelligent sense to insist that we accept his preachings as most American preachers do. I do not know anything about your personal pastor, other than what you have said here in this forum. But, I do know that the evengelical movement is predicated on the a Pauline dominant interpretation of scripture. In other words, Christians are almost always referered to the Pauline Gospels as the their first introduction to Bible reading and study. This is a Satnic like trick to get people confused before they even have a chance to see the True Message of Bible Prophesy.

Because Paul was not a prophet, his preachings cannot be taken as equal to prophesy. To be blunt about it: the Pauline Gospels are inferior to the biblical prophesies. So, those verses where he seems to compromise with slavery are inferior to those verses written by prophets. Keep in mind that a prophet is one who directly cummuned with GOD, Most Merciful, Most Gracious. The last of these was Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him). According to Q ur'an and which I believe to be the Verbatim Word of GOD, Most Merciful, Most Gracious, Muhammad was the Seal of the Prophets. This means that there will never be another prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon all of the prophets).

Prior to the Pauline Gospels, everything in The Bible was compsoed by prophets and prophetesses. The big question is how come non-prophetic writings are in The Bible in the first place? Of course, the only honest answer is that blond-haired, blue-eyed, pale-skinned, half-naked manipulators added the Pauline Gospels to The Bible. Why? A lot of reasons. But mainly, it was politically difficult to convert the pagan Europeans to Christianity without compromsing with slavery. See, the ancient Romans and Greeks, the gentiles, were slavehalders. So, to avoid conflict with those powerful interests the early churches started talking about how slaves must obey their masters, etc. And, they put this into The Bible to confuse everbody. Thus, even today, un-necessary conflict exists between those who have the interests of slaveholders at heart and those who are harmed by slavery. Those who are harmed by slavery are the vast majority of humanity. Thus, America is almost always at war with little poor countries around the world: Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Cuba, Sudan, Irag, Palestine, Afghanistan, so on and so forth.


If you were an intelligent and honest Christians, which I doubt that you are, you would admit that there ias nothing in Bible prophesy to justify the current conflicts that America is engaged in. To the contrary, even Roman Catholic doctrine consider Bush's attack on Irag as unjust war. Yet, the evanglicals are just now starting to see the light: they are just now realizing that maybe this war is not the best solution to America's problems.

If you were an intelligent and honest Christian, you would seek peace with the Muslim Community, not un-necessary war. Islam has always sought peace with both Christians and Jews. Thus, every single time that conflicts erupts between Muslims and Christian and/or Jews, the Christians and/or Jews have always started the fight.

Well, I have never seriously studied the question. But, I will say this about Lincoln: his first name was Abraham. Remember, Father Abraham is the father of the Arabs and of the Muslims. As I have said all along, Islam is against slavery.

There is reason to believe that Abraham Lincoln, like Barack Hsesein Obama, was greatly inlfuenced by Islamioc values. This includes anti-slavery. It also includes such values as unity. Thus, Lincoln was very much concerned about American unity. He was forced to abolish slavery for at least two reasons: (1) Slavery was morally wrong and incompatible with Judaeo-Christian-Islamic values and principles. (2) Slavery led to the parttition of the USA. Thus, to maintain unity he had to abolish slavery.

Finally, there is reason to believe that Lincoln, like Obama and several other American presidents, had a direct biolgical link to Africa and the Muslim Community. Stated vulgarly, Lincoln was at least part African. His mother is believed to have been a descendant of Morocco. Hence the name Islamic name, Abraham.

Abd:

You have all the answers about slavery, how and who, what and when and yet on one to the pillars of your arguments about the slavery of black people you give credit to a man (an American president at that) because his name was Abraham. you are really easy abd.

before you make any more statements about Lincoln sir I would strongly suggest that you read a bit more about him. it is true that he is believed to have had not only african ancestry but Indian also. your boy Lincoln did say that slavery was wrong, but he also was opposed to giving slaves social and political equality. Read some of the writings of Fredrick Douglass to look into the soul of your abraham. (you may see that there maybe some brain washing that has crepted also into your mind.)

Did you know that your hero tried to send blacks to islands south of the border to get rid of us, but the experiments failed because of death by disease to the chosen.

I am shocked. And, very disappointed. Now, I am starting to understand, or should I say "overstand". how your little mind works. At fist I thought you were pretending to be... well, you get my drift, I hope. Anyway, it is better to be suspected an idiot than to let evertbody know that you are one.


Lincoln was an American politician who was seeking to get re-elected. This meant that he had to negotiate with a racist American social and political culture, much like what we see in Obama today. This did not make Lincoln a bad person. Certainly, his compromises were no greater than those of Saint Paul of Bible fame.

Besides, I am one who has worked in the scorching hot sun for ten hours at minimum wage of cotton planatations. Before qutiing time on any given day, you, Lincoln, Saint Paul or juast about anybody could have persuaded me to go to Mexico. Or, better yet: Africa.

See, America is not all it is preasented to be. We catch hell in this racist country. So, maybe Lincoln was trying to show us mercy by giving us an option to get back to more hospitable environs. You know, the first African republic, Liberia, was started that way. The smart slaves among us, got out of America as soon as the they unlocked the door. Smart move, I say. 'Cuase it was not long before they re-locked the door to keep us here to pick their cotton for slave wages.

One good thing about slavery, if there is such a thing, was that the slaveholders had a moral obligation to care for his slaves. Actually, it was more of a financial/business obligation. The problem was that the slaveholders were too dumb to see that far. They did not understand that it was better to free the slaves to starve or work for minimum wage. At Chrsitmastime, they did not have give the workers fat pork and hog intestines. All they were required to do was to pay them less than what was needed to buy food. Freedom. So, getting out of this trick was a smart move on the part of the founders of the Republic of Liberia. Lincoln had more mercy than you give him credit for.