Well shemsi:


I am sorry brother but I just could not let you make yourself look like you know me or some one of lesser intellect.

but hell is not the place of eternal punishment for transgressions....

now have you ever thought of God being omniscient? if that is the case then after he decided to create the angels and man with free will, had he changed His mind would that not have made him a lesser God because He would have doubted the end results?

i have always known that the spirit of man is eternal and man can never abandon it as much as he would to do so. suicide does not abort man from the consequences of allowing the soul free hand in his life. The soul does not consider God or any one but itself.

I would not nave given man free will had I looked down through time and saw all this going on by man's own hands. I do appreciate free will though and the responsibility that goes with it.

bredder if you do end up in hell for a space and then on to the place of eternal damnation then it will not be because God did not warn and try to rescue you. There will be a judgement bredder called the Great White Throne Judgement where the sinner will be judged for the things they did in this life. We will be standing across a great gulf at the time and you will remember me giving you opportunity to accept Christ as your savior.

He came and died on the cross (tree) and was buried and then on the third day raised from the dead. He did for the sins of man and paid the price for the penalty of sin which is death. If you can believe that by faith you can bypass ending up with hell and death in the place of eternal damnation.

come to Jesus bredder...ask Him to come into your heart and save you, it would cost you a dime of your money or a bit of your intellect. it is the free gift because God so loved us...

They burn, choke, and have "gnashing of teeth"...LOL. Jesus' words, not mine...

Hello LeMoor:

Good question for sure. I don't know of another teaching whereby the issue of disobeying the creator was classed as "sin" for which a penalty of death was the results of disobeying. Most others that I have studied taught that man could over come his passions and live a life that benefitted all.

Yes LeMoor, salvation is by Jesus alone>>>>

1. I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6 (KJV)

2. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:24 (KJV)

3. 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48 I am that bread of life.
John 6:47-48 (KJV)

It is emphatic that faith in Jesus Christ's death and resurrection is paramount for eternal life.

There are judgements that men will face the saved and the lost.

The following verses are the judgement of the lost or unsaved. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:11-15 (KJV)

These are already condemned to eternal death, not anihilation, so this judgement is about the degree of suffering in hell that this group will be judged on. "According to their works"....

Shemsi:

check out these verses>>>>

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:11-15 (KJV)

you might also be interested to know that the cartoon versions are not biblical where satan is recieving people into hell and sitting around punishing them. check out this verse>>>>10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.Rev 20:10 (KJV)

The phrase "was cast into" is important here to understand that satan will not be willing to go to the lake that burns forever. and it specifically states that he along with the false propher, the beast (anti christ) will all be punished not for life but forever.

Uh huh...that's nice....but WHEN was Hell created and by whom?

Oh so you just brush my points off without comment. no worries bredder. just pointing out that your bible knowledge is suspect.

now when was hell (the grave) created. I would have thougth a smart man like your self would have asked the first question first. Where is hell?

in order to understand anything about it, which i doubt that you believe in it's existance you would need to know where it is.

any thoughts on the matter? if so it should give you the information that should guide you to when it was "created" and why? why should also be asked.

Not intentionally brushing off your comments, but you are attempting to do exactly what many Christians do when they are losing an argument. They introduce spurious scripture to confound the subject.

As for my Biblical knowledge, I don't think you've been on BNV long enough (or at least I haven't seen you) to make that statement with confidence. I know the Bible better than any minister/preacher that I know, as I have a publication on the subject matter that is on hold at the moment. Either way, I have spent many threads debating Biblical issues here on BNV. After a while, I just got tired because I realized it doesn't matter. You cannot introduce rationale to someone going off of belief, especially when most of their beliefs can't even be corroborated in the very book they claim to follow. Most people believe whatever their developmental environment tells them to believe. Most Christians, Hindus, Buddists, Muslims, Hebrews/Jews, and so forth practice their respective religions for no other reason than it was inculcated in them at an early age in some form either at home or a pervasive environment around them...and has almost nothing to do with any sort of spiritual enlightenment what so ever.

So today, I avoid those scriptural arguments, but ask a simple a question...."when was hell created?" It is also good to answer when, why, and by whom, so if you would be so kind, then go ahead and answer that too.

........we are already living in hell.. nothing could be worse than the suffering we see on a daily basis...children being raped in war tor lands, man made plauges : pestilence, famine, war, death .... what is worse...

So now shemsi in this post you are trying to convince me that you know the bible better than ANY preacher that YOU KNOW and would make a statement like you made in the opening post I am suspect bredder. I will hold you to the same standard you hold me to which I will admit that I can not live up to because I am not as smart as you are. But I do know some things and what I do know I am not afraid to state emphatically and unlike you it seems and not ashamed to say when I slipped up, goofed or made a mistake.

You want debate but only as long as you control the dialogue. sorry debate is not that way. run and hide if you may but it seems from your opening post that you were "inquiring" or were you simply baiting and got hooked on your own hook?

You said "if" hell was created, kind of a silly question from my stand point. The question has a tail on it to attempt to sully God as a reactionary being which would in fact refure His omniscience.

By use of the word and the connitations it seems as if you do have some knowledge of a place.

Hell was made at the time of the creation of earth. Here is a clue for you...where is the earth the hottest? What direction is the shoel? The bible is pretty specific when speaking of the place called hell directionally. bible scholar...

And as pc as you hold me to being why would I even address a question that was flawed initially with error that was obvious to me? If I asked you a question about the Oakland Raider Hockey team would you assume that I meant football and answer and again assume that most people would question both our knowledge.

mr shemsi...bible scholar....

you are correct mike, but this one is man made. it could be so different if men were not consumed with self and other passions that neglect the innocent and powerless.

no more heros mike. men are now molded into caves dwellers. we go out by day or night to scavage and then go back to our cave and avoid the carnage you mention above. the old catchall, "noting I can do about it".

My bible has told me of this time. I have read in other teaching of such an era.

Name me one suffering that can be tied to God as inflicting upon men. Just one. All are man made. All can be tied to something man did or didn't do. God mentioned famine coming for certain actions or inactions of men. But show me the finger of God in AIDES, Famine, Weather catastrophes, wars, rape of children.