[rafa]

Originally Posted by Mos

As an Arsenal fan I was happy with a point though we could have nicked it.
What disappointed me was the way Liverpool played.
They have got some good players - Players that could play 'ball' like Arsenal - Torres, Gerrard, Babel, Benayou.

I like Carragher quote "This is Liverpool we should be beating Arsenal at home"
Have to say you are Liverpool, you should be playing better football than long ball to Torres. I think you win more games that way.

You shouldnt be happy with a point

You should have comfortably disposed of that Liverpool team yesterday - simply because its was team, extremely low on confidence- with the spine of the team missing through injuries.

hard to play fantasy football when you've key personnnel missing.

The players you've mentioned arent good enough at this level- with the exception of probbaly Gerrard and even he's not playing well. Torres was clearly not fit and got injured

We normally beat Arsenal at home so Carragher's right.

[tobitrice]

My thoughts on the besiktas game,

We played alright (or maybe we only played alright in comparison to the marseille game), but more was still needed from the team. I recently thought hyppia was losing his sharpness, but two own goals in a week tells me that his legs are getting tired and he needs replacing. For me gerrard's goal masked what was an uninspiring performance from him. It's strange that a player that has bailed us out many times over, kept us on lockdown in this match. Usually i would be distraught at our champions league position, but last season at this stage of the champions league i wasnt that interested in the champions league, and this season im even more disinterested.

The arsenal game was unsatisfactory in terms of quality. Considering the shock of the previous mid week game in turkey as well as arsenal's recent impressive form, i'd say it was a brave performance from our players. But the performance was not enough in terms of quality. We were at home and for some spells in the game we looked like the away side. Perhaps we deserved a draw, but nothing more than that. The positive from the game was that gerrard looked back on form.

P.S @ rafa. As well as Gerrard i think benayoun is decent enough to play for liverpool. If you dont think he's good enough i'd like to hear why you think so.

[Mos]

Originally Posted by rafa

You shouldnt be happy with a point

You should have comfortably disposed of that Liverpool team yesterday - simply because its was team, extremely low on confidence- with the spine of the team missing through injuries.

hard to play fantasy football when you've key personnnel missing.

The players you've mentioned arent good enough at this level- with the exception of probbaly Gerrard and even he's not playing well. Torres was clearly not fit and got injured

We normally beat Arsenal at home so Carragher's right.

A point away from home in against the top 4 is a good result.
You're not 'extremely low' on confidence. Struggling in Europe but haven't lost in Premier.

I'm sure your 'spine' would be Carrager - Gerrard - Torres (who all played). Though Torres was injured.
Crouch your top scorer last season has hardly played
Benayou is the only midfielder you have with creativity - You don't play him
Babel, Benayou, Vorrin are good enough but Rafa doesn't know how to use his players.

Apart from Pennant & Agger - You started with your 'best' team

True you normally beat us @ home unless we play our kids maybe our team was too old on sunday.

[Kunjufu]

Mos: can you also remind this person that we have Van Per Si out injuried, Senderos out injured...Eduardo not even in the Squad... Walcott, Gilberto and Lehman on the bench.... Yet Liverpool after going a goal up in the first TEN minutes at home, failed to capitalise... We however cameback and almost won the game....

At the end of the Day most HONEST gunners supporters would have taken a draw at liverpool or Man utd as a GOOD result.... in the light of THEIR spending in the summer on BIG TIME players against our lack of spending....

[rafa]

Originally Posted by moss

A point away from home in against the top 4 is a good result.
You're not 'extremely low' on confidence. Struggling in Europe but haven't lost in Premier.

I'm sure your 'spine' would be Carrager - Gerrard - Torres (who all played). Though Torres was injured.
Crouch your top scorer last season has hardly played
Benayou is the only midfielder you have with creativity - You don't play him
Babel, Benayou, Vorrin are good enough but Rafa doesn't know how to use his players.

Apart from Pennant & Agger - You started with your 'best' team

True you normally beat us @ home unless we play our kids maybe our team was too old on sunday.

1)Thats bull. Ridiculous

Being "unbeaten" means nothing.

WE were top of the table in September playing some great football - and within a space of a month we lie in 7th place -playing a style of football i havent seen us play since the Houllier era.

The players lost confidence and belief and thats clear for all to see.


2)By spine i meant our best midfielder, best defender and best forward - Alonso, Agger and Torres.

Torres only played 45 mins and got injured... Alonso same. Mascherano got injured late in the game- but had to stay on since Rafa used all his subs, so we were effectively playing you with 10 men.

You also seem to forget this was their first game back from injury- they hardly gonna be sharp and match fit are they - i'd have thought this was obvious

3)The players you mentioned, arent good enough to feature in Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal starting 11. (pennant, voronin etc).

4)We started with what looked like our "best" team but we finished with a defender playing in midfield.


5)Kids or no kids is irrelevant - we have a very good record against Arsenal at Anfield in the league. Thats a known fact - vice versa at Highbury/Emirates so i dont know what the big deal is to be honest.


Not using this as an excuse btw. Its not Arsenal's fault Rafa cannot manage injuries or problems in the dressing room. Just pointing out, that if i was an Arsenal fan, I'd see it as 2 points dropped than a "good" point given the circumstances that unfolded on the pitch.

Where do you see Arsenal going from here? Can you outscore Man Utd next weekend?


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@ totibrice

On Benayoun, I'd take him over Pennant anyday.

Babel I'd rather play as a support striker- cuz he simply cant take on his man. Just utter useless on the wings. Wheres Harry Kewell when you need him?


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@ Kunjufu

I'll give you Van Persie- but then you had an equally good replacement in Walcott - only in midweek he was being compared with Thierry Henry after that performance against Slavia prague

Gilberto wasnt injured and you didnt need him with Flamini playing so well

Same with Lehmann.

Surely given the circumstances with our injuries and poor run of form, and also with the manner you guys played us off the park,and with the chances you had - you would be disappointed

with a point? I'd see it as 2 points dropped than a good point.

Before the derby last week, I would have taken a point, but after the sending off, it would have been embarassing if we didnt come out with maximum points - total embarassment. Thankfully, or shall i say luckily we did.


In general-i agree, a point away to a rival is a good result.

[Le Moor]

This weekend disturbed me, because i saw the top three sides play a style of football, that included slick passing, overlaping and an attacking flair that ive RARELY seen Liverpool play since Benitez took over.

We all got excited about the strength of the sqaud at the beginning of the season, so its time to see exactly how well hes bought, as he virtually has a man to cover each postion.

Voronin and Dirk Kuyt look useless. How they get in the side before Crouch is beyond me. If i were Peter C i would be seriously agrieved, as he doesnt desreve to be playing such a small part in games, although he may get a better run now Torres is out. Pennant this season hasnt played well, and although i think he can play ball, he still needs to improve his game ten fold to be worthy of a place in a top side, and start scoring some goals too. As Tee mentioned, we need another Centre Half, as Hypia looks more than suspect.

[rafa]

To be fair Le Moor, we dont have as many creative players like the other top 3 teams

Rafa should have done more in the summer tbh - considering the amount of money that was available to him.

We still do play good football with the players we have

Rafa doesnt let his flair players express themselves on the pitch in the manner the other top 3 teams do.


He gets so tactical and cautious against inferior teams you'd think he's playing AC Milan.

He should just play his strongest team and get on with it... try to outscore his opponents like Man Utd do.

[Mos]

[quote=rafa;1443750]1)Thats bull. Ridiculous

Being "unbeaten" means nothing.

WE were top of the table in September playing some great football - and within a space of a month we lie in 7th place -playing a style of football i havent seen us play since the Houllier era.

The players lost confidence and belief and thats clear for all to see.


2)By spine i meant our best midfielder, best defender and best forward - Alonso, Agger and Torres.

Torres only played 45 mins and got injured... Alonso same. Mascherano got injured late in the game- but had to stay on since Rafa used all his subs, so we were effectively playing you with 10 men.

You also seem to forget this was their first game back from injury- they hardly gonna be sharp and match fit are they - i'd have thought this was obvious

3)The players you mentioned, arent good enough to feature in Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal starting 11. (pennant, voronin etc).

4)We started with what looked like our "best" team but we finished with a defender playing in midfield.


5)Kids or no kids is irrelevant - we have a very good record against Arsenal at Anfield in the league. Thats a known fact - vice versa at Highbury/Emirates so i dont know what the big deal is to be honest.


Not using this as an excuse btw. Its not Arsenal's fault Rafa cannot manage injuries or problems in the dressing room. Just pointing out, that if i was an Arsenal fan, I'd see it as 2 points dropped than a "good" point given the circumstances that unfolded on the pitch.

Where do you see Arsenal going from here? Can you outscore Man Utd next weekend?


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1.Unbeaten means nothing !! - They always say a sign of good team is not losing when not playing well. Liverpool were up for the game - The first 10 mins you didn't show a lack of confidence and belief.
In fact we started nervy and got better as the game went on.
BTW - You lie in 7th place but win your game in hand and you be 3rd.

2.Agree those our good players but you should have a squad capable of replacing them.
Hypia shouldn't be your 3rd best centre half.
Crouch (scored a hatrick against us last year) should have started with Torres on the bench.
If they were not fit don't play them - Your best players don't necessary make the best team.
Why wasn't Sissko on the bench if Alonso wasn't fit instead you end up playing a defender in midfield?

3.Apart from Crouch, all the players could play 'ball' Rafa's style is alien to his team thats why you are not seeing the best of them.
Pennant is a good player- Could have done well at Arsenal.
Vororin is a player with good movement (Rafa's words). Getting him to cover our full backs is not the best way to use him.
Benayou is a good player that would suit Arsenal (but again he's a one-touch player) - Long balls is not his game.

4.Why didn't you bring on Benayou for Alonso - One creative player for another.

5. Point was a bit tongue-in-cheek but you're right you have a good record against us at Anfield another reason why we're happy with a point.

Still don't see it as a bad result - we knew Liverpool would do anything not to lose, regardless of form, you were home against the leaders in a game you had to win. Liverpool getting the early goal made it harder for us as you defended in numbers. Disappointed with the miss chances but happy with the result.
You've held out against Chelsea & Barcelona - One thing Liverpool are good at is defending.

Arsenal vs Man Utd will be a tough game but feel confident as we're home and Man Utd will make a game of it and attack.
Don't think it's a case of outscoring each other - Both defences are good -
Predict 1-0 Arsenal

[rafa]

Originally Posted by Mos

1.Unbeaten means nothing !! - They always say a sign of good team is not losing when not playing well. Liverpool were up for the game - The first 10 mins you didn't show a lack of confidence and belief.
In fact we started nervy and got better as the game went on.
BTW - You lie in 7th place but win your game in hand and you be 3rd.

2.Agree those our good players but you should have a squad capable of replacing them.
Hypia shouldn't be your 3rd best centre half.
Crouch (scored a hatrick against us last year) should have started with Torres on the bench.
If they were not fit don't play them - Your best players don't necessary make the best team.
Why wasn't Sissko on the bench if Alonso wasn't fit instead you end up playing a defender in midfield?

3.Apart from Crouch, all the players could play 'ball' Rafa's style is alien to his team thats why you are not seeing the best of them.
Pennant is a good player- Could have done well at Arsenal.
Vororin is a player with good movement (Rafa's words). Getting him to cover our full backs is not the best way to use him.
Benayou is a good player that would suit Arsenal (but again he's a one-touch player) - Long balls is not his game.

4.Why didn't you bring on Benayou for Alonso - One creative player for another.

5. Point was a bit tongue-in-cheek but you're right you have a good record against us at Anfield another reason why we're happy with a point.

Still don't see it as a bad result - we knew Liverpool would do anything not to lose, regardless of form, you were home against the leaders in a game you had to win. Liverpool getting the early goal made it harder for us as you defended in numbers. Disappointed with the miss chances but happy with the result.
You've held out against Chelsea & Barcelona - One thing Liverpool are good at is defending.

Arsenal vs Man Utd will be a tough game but feel confident as we're home and Man Utd will make a game of it and attack.
Don't think it's a case of outscoring each other - Both defences are good -
Predict 1-0 Arsenal

1)Yea being unbeaten is a sign of a good team - provided the team is winning. Playing shit and winning is a sign of a good team.

We could stay unbeaten for the entire season and yet finish mid-table or even relegated in fact. Being unbeaten means nothing if you're not winning - something we havent been doing for a while.

Win our game in hand & we'll still be behind Arsenal and Man Utd - whereas few weeks ago we were top of the table - level on points with Arsenal - Man Utd werent even on the radar.

Theres a reason why we didnt stay top - poor form/results, manager bust up with the assistant, rotation - all this had an affect on the players. If you dont think it does, then its pointless carrying on with this discussion.


2) Well Rafa had to play Hyypia - he had no other alternative- unless he plays someone from the reserves.

Yes I agree best players don't necessary make the best team - but yet again you miss the point my good friend - the team as a whole have been playing rubbish lately. Big players included.

Exactly I agree - i wouldnt play players who arent fit - whichs why Sissoko didnt play.
Crouch should have started i agree - but as you said individuals dont necessarily make the best team - whether he would have made a difference on his own is debatable - considering he's rubbish every time he played this season.


3)Pennant is all run but no end product. Assisted Zilch, Goals Zilch - cant take on his man like his Brummie days - ive been disappointed with Pennant so far this season- - but then again if the whole teams is playing crap- I dont expect Pennant to come up with the goods on his own. As you said individuals dont necessarily make the best team

I'd play Benayoun over Pennant anyday everyday everytime.


4) I cannot answer that question- he did come on for Voronin though. Back to your point again, best players dont necessarily make up a good team. We've been very poor in our attacking game over the past few weeks.


5) Yeah we did defend in numbers given the circumstances- whichs so unlike us to be honest - being at home and all.

It was a game we just didnt have to lose - considering we lost in midweek. We rarely do park the bus in that manner - especially at home;

Whichs a Shame really- if it wasnt for the confidence thing and unfortunate injuries to key players- it would have been a different game altogether guaranteed - possibly a different outcome as well.


When did we "hold on" against Chelsea and Barcelona?
Cant be last season as they were our most comfortable & convincing displays ????
Are you referring to the old games in the late 90's perhaps - when Overmars scored that wonder goal

[Le Moor]

Another crap display and what did i tell you about Dirk Kuyt......useless. Starting to think that Benitez got lucky winning the CL, cos he sure as hell isnt impressing with his man-management skills at present.

[Kunjufu]

LOL....Now he realises...btw Le moor where are you now in the NBV league? LMAO...