Nice try but utter rubbish...tell me how spain & Italty manage to produce GOOD teams year on year..but England don't... Shit even Greece managed to win with noboby's yet England win jack!!! Come on now stop making excuses England just don't have it simple!!!

K - ok, you do have a point because if any of it was true Arsenal with all their non-Englishmen would have won the Champions League...if that doesn't prove your perspective then nothing will

I wouldn't say England are rubbish, they just haven't got any bottle....but then you could argue bottle is part and parcel of being good.

Actually you SPURS supporter Arsenal have won things, so lets get THINGS into perspective shall we... the fact is English players do not have the technique and that ultimately is why they get beaten so often FACT!!! If English players were THAT good then more would be littered in every team in the Premiership...

The truth is Every Top team employs fewer and fewer English talent because they do not have the SAME ball control.... Even United are replacing its English talent with Foriegners..

Hey I'm Liverpool through and through, even got their kit on while typing this...never been to see them play mind you - England are well known for playing a different game, indeed nuff players from the continent have to run leave it because they can't manage the pace or the aggression. I suppose it's like the question of whether the slugger can ever be better than the true boxer so there I agree skill will always be victorious but that said

England populating their teams with Europeans has to be detrimental if the Europeans are coming and playing their way of football which is why by default the FA now seek European managers. It's a recipie for disaster because a European manager isn't going to teach the UK style of football...and even if he did the players are not naturally gifted enough to take it up, they enter the game as slugging British bulldogs, I suspect for them it's still about winning wars instead of winning football - in that sense they have a better chance of sticking to what they know, an English manager slugging it out.

K - and remember we're not even talking about England winning the European championship we're just talking about qualifying here....amongst professional day in day out footballers the ball control argument doesn't even enter the frame at this stage.

True. The lack of ball control in the england team was obvious in the fateful game against croatia. The croatians with their ball retention frustrated england. However it seemed that whenever an english player would get closed down, they would lose composure and just pass the ball backwards or aimlessly hoof the ball. England get by on their strong defence, physical approach, set pieces and wing play. But the overall technical ability of the team is not enough.

Tobitrice - are we saing England are not good enough to even qualify for this tournament. I'd always question their ability to win it but they are definitely good enough to get in.

I'd more question their bottle and their fear of losing and if the last qualifying compain is anything tho go by I put the blame solely at the door of that eediat manager, bout he's calling back Beckham

incognito: If the English were GOOD enough to qualify then they would be competing in the European Championship..... non? The fact is if you look at the last few English campaigns to the major competitions they have struggled and typically got in via the back door... and if you remember correctly the last European championship under Hoodle England got right royally spanked in the group games...

The issue isn't bottle its technique, England cannot retain the ball through pass possession and not have a defense able to compete or go forward with the ball...without exposing the entire team.. but vitally the fact that england do not seem able to play any other formation other than 442 is the key reason why they will never do well....

If you guys could not get past Russia and Croatia to qualify for the Euros how can you say that England is better than anyone in the tourney? I mean didn't you guys tie some unknown country in the year you had to get to the tourney?

Rooney is good, but he is not even the best goal scorer on his team. Gerrard is the only Englishman that anyone would take as a true player, but he is not a creative midfielder.

England is technically not that great because they depend on speed and will and other teams depend upon one or two players who can unlock a defense in the midfield. If England ever decided to up their passing game........

But looking at the charts, even Man Utd with 7 Englishmen who have been capped only chose to start 4 of them on average. And the other big 3 have started less and normally finished higher.

Besides Everton the rest of the teams who normally start more Englishmen are always mid table teams.

English players have heart but are less technically gifted because to be honest with you, other countries seem to play football where the English seem to approach it in a business like manner.

As an outsider, I think this is it. I mean even Americans play with more freedom and creativity than you guys and we can barely kick the ball at all, but we try to mimick other moves, but our complete lack of skill at the sport kills our creativity.

So Englishmen learn how to play the sport again instead of making it business like......

[quote=safetyblitz;1476329]

Rooney is good, but he is not even the best goal scorer on his team. Gerrard is the only Englishman that anyone would take as a true player, but he is not a creative midfielder.



[quote]

Erm, have you seen gerrard play? you usually know your stuff about football, but 'gerrard is not a creative midfielder' has to go down as the most inaccurate footy analysis i've heard all year. Gerrard is a pass master of the ball, he makes bursting runs with the ball, and he scores lots of goals.

Incognito- i support england (half heartedly), but i wont hold back on how catastrophic that qualifying campaign was.

Back to the tourno- very disappointed with germany. my confidence in them has dipped a little bit and i was hoping for them to kick portugal out. on the bright side this loss probably means germany finish second and face portugal in the quater finals, so bring it on!

K - i don't believe for one second it's anything as straight forward as that. That's like saying year in year out the best national league team won the Champions league yet even Liverpool won that....or even more to the point the Brazil team (Doctor Socrates and them boys) of 1982 would have won the world cup.

England have a confidence problem, when they get it right they are a match for any team out there. They also lack consistency which is why if they were ever going to be champions of Europe it would be down to their game and a bit of luck like the draw or more over the teams their rivals get to play.

Dare I ask you based on your good enough analogy, who do you believe will win this tournament because there is no way Poland are better than England.

incognito: you're still talking rubbish, of course Poland are BETTER than England thats a proven FACT, Poland are in the competition england are NOT..simple...

England don't suffer from a 'confidence' problem they suffer from an ability problem...ie they don't have it... Croatia is a much smaller country than England, they have no major stars in their team, in fact their star striker got his leg broke yet they STILL managed to win both opening games and BEAT Germany on tactics and gile, where would England be without rooney, Gerrard or Owens.. we know don't we... Nowhere as was proven in the last few competitions when Beckham got injured and Rooney got injured... they got done over... sorry but too many excuses England are crap and thats why they can't win jack..

Disagree K - England has a plethora of talent, they just need the right tactitian. If anything they have a lack of depth where it only takes one or two players to get injured to upset the whole balance and structure of the team. Thaat lack of depth is caused by too many foreign footballers in the Premiership.