Just caught this also.... what do people think of the 1st point he makes about the idea of a divine being constantly watching our every move... And about his view that religion is not good..in effect..

What the clip and then express a view.. please no sermonising from the bible, talk from the heart or please don't bother.,... any preaching will be removed you have been warned!!!



An additional companion to the this thread...

I think human beings think of the divine as only humans can. In human terms. God is vengeful. Loving. Good. Will be vex with you if you displease him.. even giving 'him' a gender.

Its all ridiculous.

You are right about one thing, he exposed hannity for the dolt he really is. but to say that he dispelled the notion of the argument for God is not the case at all. in fact hannity is not one who is well versed on Christianity at all. his politics is only of trying to get the so called religious right to vote for republicans.

i also think that the argument that God does not exist is as irrational as Him existing.

universes imploding, stars buring up has little nothing to do with the order of God. man's misuse of the God given earth realm has not one thing to do with the soverinty of God i dare say. the only thing i would question God on would be His decision to give us freewill rather than make us zombies. men in general can not be trusted to even run his own life let alone be his brothers keeper.

My first impression is that the whole arguement is based on the assumption that "God" is something separate from "Man"...some spooky, etheral Being that "exists" on some other plane or in some other dimension.

It is just as worthy of consideration to posit the possibility that God is Man, and Man is God....which of course would require consideration that there is much more to Man than we have believed or assumed.

Morality, I think, is best defined as that which serves the highest good of all. Therefore, deciding what is "moral" requires an indepth study of Creation and the Laws that govern it, and then using the knowledge gained from such study to settle on, or decide which behaviors facilitate Survival of the Whole, and which behaviors hinder or threaten the Survival of the Whole.

I wasn't particularly impressed with either Hannity or Sharpton; but the Brit's arguments can be dealt with once you get him to consider another possibility of the reality of "God".

RM

I did not see the peice...but it is striking over my years to see men try and boil existance down to chance happenings. for what looks like jsut being able to not have to give due benevolence to to anything his own will.

one only has to understand who benefits from anarchy. if men ever decided to put himself first in every circumstance we will really have a jolly tyme of it.

Jehovah is so patient. but His judgement will surely come.

He is merciful and gives us the choice of heaven or hell.

I've watched both clips, first of all personally I reckon Hitchens will out argue virtually anybody, if anybody comes to him from "the book" he will make mince meat out of them due to the simple use of reason.

I agree that religion is not good, for the simple fact that people are unable to keep their beliefs personal. Just because people believe it doesn't means it's true plus the many have always been found to wrong anyway. The 3 main religions are nothing more than political tools. But back on point, I've heard the audiobook of "god is not great" it's a good book with a lot of insight, the main point is that he doesn't state that there isn't something insomuch as what is on offer from the 3 main religions is nonsense, which I agree with.

Personally I think it's the reverse of this, what you said is the order, if our sun goes tomorrow, it would kinda put a spanner in the works in what people think is gods order.

What we call religion is basically a belief system. What you trust in. Everyone of us trust in something. How you got to giving your attention to what ever you trust in is another matter.

Some are not well thought out or reasoned to be sure. I do not like to compare my trust in Jesus Christ to religion because it is not a religion. Yes it is very personal to me to be sure. How I got to this point is not at issue presently. But it is relevant.

I was a skeptic and got into "the book" by trying to disprove. The book of Proverbs caught my attention and here I am 25 years later.

One thing I discovered is that there is most definately a force that is working against the good of mankind. This force is very powerful and if it could would destroy the earth in one fell swoop. This force is not the greatest power in the universe.

There is another Power at work. This Power is for the good of man. The lesser power is very subtle and preys on man three areas of vunerability; the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life. Man is played like a top when he does not control these areas of his life.

Our biggest problem in being kept from the truth of life is that we are still suffering from the 'confusion of tongues' that caused man to divide up into sects. The power that seeks to destroy man and all that is has since that time used base men basically through the pride of life to vex the psyche of man and cause some many to doubt God.

What we call Christianity Jay Jay does not have to be debated, because it is the truth. Because I am a Christian it does not make me superior to any other man. This is a fault that sorely hurts our effort to show the world God in our lives.

What then is the difference between you and I? It is simply that I have access to God. I have been restored to a relationship with Him that was destroyed when the first man Adam decided to try his own way.

One poster said it best when he quoted Ghandi I believe it was. I believe it was said that Ghandi was addressing a Christian and told him, "I like your Jesus, I like your book, but I don't like your Christians." It is indeed a fact that we for the most part do a poor job of representing our belief system.

Everyone does indeed have trust is something, however that trust is built on a past track record and not faith, faith is a belief,to give you an example.....Two people you know very well asks you to loan them something which is valuable to you, one of them is very reliable, always returns promptly and never gives you any hassle, the other never returns anything, always gives you headache and hassle. Which one of those friends would you have the most faith in? or should I say trust?

Let us not confuse trust with faith or belief.

However I do agree to some extend that there is a battle between good and bad over the control of man, although "God", "Creation" is not in this battle, it is man's own battle to overcome should we decide to wake up.

Regarding Christianity and it being the truth. if I was to lock yourself a Muslim and a Jew in a room to discuss the truth for 365 days, on the 366th day I returned and opened the door, the 3 versions of truth will come out the same as it went in, because it's nothing more than your opinion of what you think the truth is.

So what is the difference between you and I? I would never be naive or arrogant to say that I have access to God whilst insinuating that you don't. Like the ancient Babylonians would slaughter a sheep on a moonlit night and remove its liver, if it was in good condition it boded well for the coming year, they had access to God also, didn't they? Like a certain ancient sect of Rabbi's (moy, I think) who circumcised infants and removed the tip with their mouths and spat it out, they had access to God also, didn't they?

You either know or you don't know, in my case I know what it is not.

I do agree with what you say about faith.

but i say that faith is acting on trust and belief.

i can believe that a plate of greens and corn bread will keep me from starving if i eat it. and i trust that it is healthy for me and yet if i never eat it...my knowledge did me no good. i did not exercise my faith in my trust and belief in the knowledge of the greens.

arguing truth about faith will not come to very much except an argument. I have been taught as a Christian that arguing is not what is expected of me by God when challenged. I can certainly answer inquiries when asked of my Faith, but argument is not an option.

God expects me to love my enemies and to show what is inside of me rather than talking about it.

what people believe or disbelieve adds to the harmony or takes away from the harmony of our earthly existance.

i have heard from several members how we can imagine God into existance i would think in what ever flavor we want Him to be. And there are those who for the sake of argument refuse to accept the existance of a higher being.

Thinkers from time immortal have jumped on the question of whether life is chance or directed. in either case it seems to me that we ought to be trying to solve our issues in accord with the big picture.

if life is just chance we are in trouble, if there is no higher being we are in trouble. if life is left up to each individual, then we are in big big trouble.

are we really a leaderless herd....

@k the 1st video does not show

as from the 2nd video
all i can say is look at all societies that have lost religion connections or lost their way their morals have dipped

religion can be bad but can be good too all depends.

you are so right lady Day, but it is not the 'religion' per se but the men and women who take it and use it against people.

a world without morals or ethics would probably be a very chaotic place.