Every denomination is a change. Let me give you an example. When Dr. King began to preach against Jim Crow, the National Baptist Convention was not happy about it. So, King and his supporters were obliged to form a new denomination called the Progressive Baptrist National Convention. That was a change. Had this chane not occured, we would still be living in the dark days segragtion.

Speaking of Darkness, Christianity took Europe into the Dark Ages. When Islam came Enlightment came. Thus, Europe came out of the Dar Ages. Another change. Had it not been for this change, Europe would be still living in virtual caves.

So it is really not the RELIGION that is important?

It is people changing their thinking.

The believers in any religion simply stagnate until someone with initiative comes along and kicks them in the but. People just want to attribute things to their stupid religions.

umbra

abd you are trying to change the subject of me being a denominationalist. you lie..

there is not a post on here that you will find where i acclaimed anything but being a christian. not one. i don't think i made a freudian slip.

an assumption abd.

i will tell you one more time, God is not about denominations or religion. that is a bad habit of men.

the bible is true and every man that is not lined up with it a liar.

go and find where i claimed to be anything except a christian abd.

umbra, men do not need religion. righteousness is in the busom, but the will to act justly is tempered by the desires that eat at us.

God has given no religion. only instructions through men to guide men who want to be guided.

God has said that there is a given time known only to Him when He will come and judge men for their works. in christianity men have the choice to believe or not believe.

Religion and denominations of religion is man made.

True. But, it are the men who keep changing Christianity. When Saint Paul told slaves to obey their masters, that was a change from when Moses told the slave masters to let my people go. Change. Men changed it. But, it is change nontheless.

Now do we have it straight that it is not christianity that changes but men's interpetation of it and I would assume (a risky thing in a debate) that the same is true with all the different sects of islam to and including this one you are supporting presently?

Religion come from men not God. Sects and denominations come from men not God. Do we have that straight or am I still a liar?

As I have stated you will not find one post on here where I said that I was anything other than a christian. Not a baptist (although I worship in the baptist setting), not a JW, a C.O.G.I.C., nor a Jesus only, none of them. I am a christian with a little c.

some one needs to tell you that during a debate the very worst thing you can do is ASSUME. if the argument is found lacking you loose not only creditability but the edge if you ever had it.

If we are settled on these points we can procede further.

Exactly. And these stupid men and women keep changing Christianity.

They don't change christianity as I am sure you will say is the case with islam. they simply teach false doctrine and error which Jesus told us would happen

>>>18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Romans 16:18 (KJV)

>>>10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. 11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. 12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.
Isaiah 56:10-12 (KJV)

>>>19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
Ezek 13:19 (KJV)

>>>3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2 Peter 3:3 (KJV)

>>>15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matt 7:15 (KJV)

>>>17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Romans 16:17 (KJV)

>>>3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1 Tim 6:2-3 (KJV)

>>>3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2 Tim 4:2-3 (KJV)........

For the sake of clarity, let me ask you a question: Who was right, the National Baptist Convention or the Progressive National Baptist Convention? Which one was "teaching false doctrine"?

Let me get this straight with you brother. I know little about either. I do not attend conferences where they ask me to give the price of the last pair of shoes I bought or a house note. Good certainly can come from them but most are scams. The NBC or the PNBC can do nothing but tell me what the bible says.

I know myself what it says because I do as God commanded which is to study to show myself approved UNTO God (not man).

abd, the only reason we have baptist on our sign is because that the majority of christians feel comfortable with the baptist doctrine. baptist are pretty much sound in what they do teach, they get in trouble usually with what they don't teach.

In our assembly it is about the bible and what it says. We encourage people to bring their bibles and read it for themselves.

Not long ago they tried to make my pastor a bishop in the "full gospel" association. He declined but told them that if they could tell him what the half gospel or quarter gospel is that he would consider it. His point is that you are either preaching the Gospel or you are not. God only recognizes the whole counsel of the word, not partial.

There are so many crooks in the church today who are pimping the people of God. >>>1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. 13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
Eph 3:1-13 (KJV)

Cool. Th epoint is they are not the same. The PBNC grew out of the NBC. The NBC refused to support the Civil Rights Movement. I think this was at last due in part to their reading those verses where we are told to obey the slave masters. PNBC accepted Black Liberation Theology at least to a point. This is what Dr. King was about. I certainly hope you can see that Dr. king did GOD's Will.

I know myself what it says because I do as God commanded which is to study to show myself approved UNTO God (not man).

Did you know that the Soutern Baptist Convention supported slavery? My own family goes way back in the Baptist Church. We have a history of fighting slavery. But, many of us also accpted the evils of Jim Crow segregation. I am one of the few who supported Civil Rights from day one. For me, it is logical growth to become an African nationalist. Because the Baptists have failed in their duties towards Africa, I found it necessary to seek out Islam to reclaim my African heritage.

Yeah. I know exactly what you are talking about. Instead of being honest and reading the Bible verse by verse, chapter by chapter from the beginning to the end, you skip around, twist things and take them out of context. Otherwise, you would see clearly that Genesis is about Africa. And, you would see that the prophesies are anti-slavery which is contrary to the teachings of Saint Paul. It is a trick. It is a corrupt way of teaching doctrine. Baptist doctrine is about supporting slavery and just about every other reactionary and evil force in American society.

Well, no wonder you are confused. There is much more to the Bible than just Gospel. Personally, I think Prophesy is more important than Gospels.

There are so many crooks in the church today who are pimping the people of God. >>>1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. 13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
Eph 3:1-13 (KJV)[/quote]

Okay. Apparently you have not read those verses. Check out Verses 7-8: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ. Dis he not say that he was the least of all saints? Yeah, he said it. And, for once I agree with him. He was even less than the least at one point in time because he was a murderer of believers, a hired killer.

In any case, he compromised the gos[pels and the prophesy in order to appease the Gentiles. This is why he tells the poor helpless slaves who had nobody to turn to but GOD to obey the slave masters. That was a stupid and cowardly thing to do. But, it is to be expected from Saint Paul. Aftyerall, Paul was NOT a prophet.

Here is an interesting interpretation of Lenin's dream:

01 The Engineer's Plot - Adam Curtis - Pandora's Box

Nkrumahism and technology and paleface economic power games.

Pandora's Box - Ep 5 - Black Power

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