[quote]All I did was sit down one day and started reading The Bible without the benefit of some liar or hypocrite to confuse me. I started on page one, chapter one, verse one in The Book of Gensis. Lo and behold! I immediately caught the preachers in one lie after another. Right there in Genesis, I learned this:

Genesis 16:3 (Whole Chapter)
So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.
(Bible Resources, Online Bible, Read the Bible, Search the Bible, Bible Study Plan, Passage Search, Keyword Search). It was impossible to miss it because it was about the first time that I had read it and it was was right there at the beginning of my reading project. Like or not. Call it whatever you want to call it.


Actually, all of this is verfified in many other places. One of them is here: Front for the Unification and Development of Africa and Arabia.

So? Did not Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him) say this:

Matthew 5:17 (Whole Chapter)
Do not think that I have come to do away with or [John Wycliffe, The Wycliffe Bible.] undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them?
(Bible Resources, Online Bible, Read the Bible, Search the Bible, Bible Study Plan, Passage Search, Keyword Search)

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you are right um, darwin was another.

I saw a television program that said Christians were claiming that about Darwin shortly after his death but relatives who were present denied it ever happened.

Your statement is the first I have ever encountered of Marx doing that. As famous as Marx is that should be common knowledge by now IF IT WERE TRUE.

UM

Well maybe it was darwin, instead forgive me. in fact i do believe it was him.

It rather seems as if sarai giving hagar her handmaid to abraham is the only thing in the bible that you have respect for abd, is this correct. confirms you as a "cotton picker" brother.

the bible is what it is. we christians take the bitter with the sweet.

this is the power of the bible, it corrects if you are correctable, it enlightens if you are open to enlightenment, it saves if you can accept the fact that you are lost.

it is not a romantic novel that simply bolsters the image of God to mankind. it shows the love of God in the death of Jesus on the cross and his wrath in the end judgement.

one thing abd that comforts me in the fact that nothing surprises me. The bible has revealed all to mankind who seeks to know. it tells me that in these the latter days men will become more and more wicked.

it shows me abd that the church will fail in it's commission as all the other dispensations to man. it is readily seen to any believer who will seek to know the truth.

knowing this in no way means that i should give up the struggle and whimp out. nor does it make me suicidal in my deportment. as the world continues to decry christianity and we become the oppressed and persecuted i will never deny my saviour abd.

He has done too much for me and the world. The love of God for man was shown at Calvary as well as His hatred for sin. His power was shown in the ressurection from the grave of the saviour Jesus Christ.

I mention a few days ago abd that the USA is not mentioned in the prophesy of the latter days even in the Revelation and the final battle against Israel. do you have any thoughts on why the USA is not mentioned when the whole world comes to the valley to extinguish israel. no one is with her...>>>14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Rev 17:14 (KJV)

and yes Jesus did say that He came not to do away with but to fullfill them. and He did just that. the things that shadowed His coming were made nought though, the temple sacrificing that pointed to His coming and dying for sin. He did that at Calvary sir, that the Lord.

But do not kill is still in tact as well as the law against adultry, beastiality and the like....

[quote]I am indeed a cotton picker. A real cotton picker. And a darn good one at that. I could get my 200 pounds almost every day. What about you?

What I care about is simply truth. In this case, it is about Sacred Truth. Therefore, we must be very, very careful about how we "interprete" The Bible. I read Scriptures literally. I accept them just as I read them except where I have good reasons to suspect that they have been tampered with or altered.

It is costomary in polygamous societies for the husband to gat his wife's permission before taking a second wife. So yes, Sarai gave her approval to Abram's taking of Hagar as his wife. As I understand it, Sarai gave him Hagar as his second wife. It is true that Hagar had been a maid or even a slave. But, what is clear from reading the verse is that when she became Abram's wife, she was no longer a mere maid. She became the Mother of Many Nations. In other words, she became a great Queen Mother. She is the Mother of all of the Arabs and all of the Muslims and half or more of the Africans. (Peace and Blessings be upon Abraham and and Sarah and Hagar). Frankly, I do not see why this is so hard to accept. Except, some cults simply want to spread lies and confusion.


I will believe that when I see it.

Whoopi-do!. No Muslim "denies" Jesus. He is accepted as one of the greatest of all prophets. (Peace and Blessings be upon him)

Okay. You are not going to get me all caught up in all that there non-sense. In the first instance, I have never seen any clear reference in the Scriptures that Modern Israel is to exist in the the first place. I think it is all a big lie. Furthermore, I know of no verses that claim that there is going to be a war against Israel. Frankly, I expect the zionist project to end in total failure. It runs against the nature of things. It is false. A big lie.

If you think otherwise, you are welcome to show me evidence to back up your opinion.

You should avoid reading too much Revelation. It may confuse you. What you need to do is read Genesis and Exodus.

If you believe, which I doubt, read Genesis, Exodus and Leveticus.

abd,

once again cousin you are jumping to conclusions. i never said that hagar was nt the mother of the arab people as the bible says. i only cited what thet bible said in that scripture and the fact that she was a maid was in there. no big deal. god uses what some sees as 'little people' to do big things.

hagar is cool with me.

as far as you accepting Jesus as just a prophet. you missed it sir. He is the son of God.

The old testament which you revere and place higher than the new is about the 5 books of the law, the 12 books of history, 5 poetry, 5 major prophets and 12 minor prophets.

All of which point to Jesus' coming to save mankind. God in the flesh. Manifesting His love for man and His hatred for sin. This is why you miss the point of who God is. You can not phantom an awesome God taking the step he did to save man. How He humbled Himself and took on the nature of man and yet sinned not and died for men to pay the price for sin, DEATH and pure blood.

your vision of a ruler of king would be if he choose 50 subjects to sacrifice instead of Himself. God is far above your ideals and disdain for His choice. At one time before I read the bible I wanted to be a Jew, thinking that it must be wonderful being of the tribe by which Jesus came.

But when I learned of the afflictions of the Jews because they were choosen and disobedient I shudder that I ever thought such. more jews per capita will go to hell than any other nation on earth.

no prophet is greater than his prophesy...

The word "God" has been used over 150 times in this thread.

The word "technology" has been used twice but only by me.

Now the videos I posted relate to technology and economics and the first brings up socialism in Russia though I don't recall it in the second video which involves Nkrumah.

But that video involves a hydro-electric dam to process aluminum.

Do you think God understands physics which is necessary to comprehend technology? Do you suppose God lets people into heaven if they can't get their priorities straight? Anybody can pretend or delude themselves that they know about God. You have to PROVE THINGS correct by making them work in physics and technology.

umbra

Do you really have to do that um or do you have to have egg heads that can process that information for us. the study of physics and use there of will eventually come down to moral decisions um i rather believe.

so just as you have declared that physics is your litmus test in the end so is your ethics or the lack thereof. and again like the a bomb we ignorants will have virtually nil in the testing and decision to make a couple of them.

so what is the harm of us ignorants to go to the end process where you dread to tread and ply ethics because you won't or rather refuse to?

hmmmm?

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you dread to tread

You can believe I dread to tread if you want to. I really don't care. About all your arguments come down to is ego anyway.

I provided a couple of videos to tread that were actually about the topic but so far I don't know if anyone has even watched much less applied any thought to them.

I have read each gospel at least twice and the Gospel of Thomas and The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ and own 5 Bibles but I mostly don't bother discussing religion or ethics. It is curious that most of the people who would make the decisions to use nukes aren't smart enough to have invented them. But it looks like it will be lots of people with cars that wreck the planet not a few launching nukes.

So it still comes back to economics and technology.

um

[quote]But, you are absolutely incorrect. What you are failing to recognize is that everything changes. True, at one point she was not Abaraham's wife (Peace and Blessings be upon him and her). But, the Bible clearly says in virttaully every translation that Hagar became his WIFE. Why try and twist and deny this fact? The truth is Hagar (Peace and Belssings be upon her) is probably the greatest woman in human history, excepting perhaps Eve (Peace and Blessings be upon her), the Queen Mother of the whole human race.

This is crucially important. It is important because we live in a time and place when we must re-learn to respect African women. Hagar (Peace and Blessings be upon her) was an African woman. And, she is clearly greater than even Mary, Mother of Jesus. So, please do not try to deminish her by calling her "little people". She was in fact a great woman. Muslims recignize this simple fact. All Muslims from all parts of the world and from all cutures and ethnic groups venerate Hagar (Peace and Blessings be upon her). It seems that only misguided Christians and zionists have a problem. But, denying this obvious fact will in no way cahneg the fact that at least 25% of the world's population is committed to venerating Mother hagar (Peace and blessings be upon her)

hagar is cool with me.

Prove it. Show us one verse where Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him) claimed such.

The old testament which you revere and place higher than the new is about the 5 books of the law, the 12 books of history, 5 poetry, 5 major prophets and 12 minor prophets.

My friend, please understand how offensive it is to a Muslim to have anyone or anything compared to GOD. Qur'an explicitly warn us againsat such foolishness.

What you are talking about here is nothing more or less than the paganistitic notion of blood sacrifice. Islam is against blood sacrifice.

Any blood sacrifice is paganism. It does not matter how many are murdered. All murder is wrong and unacceptable.

...

No man is comparable to GOD:


Al Ikhlâs
Surah 112. The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah

112:1 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
Qul huwa Allahu ahadun

112:2 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
Allahu alssamadu

112:3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
Lam yalid walam yooladu

112:4 And there is none like unto Him.
Walam yakun lahu kufuwan ahadun