WHAT DO WE REALLY THINK OF MIXED RACE/BIRACIAL PEOPLE? - Page 10

Invertedzero · (#226 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmahogany777

Preaching to the choir is your specialty, it seems,lol. There are BLack folks walking around with as many European genetics as African ones, like Dr. Henry Louis Gates who hosted the recent AA LIves 2, yet he has 2 Black parents and looks like plenty of Black folks walking around in AMerica, and elsewhere, I'm sure. As far as his EXPERIENCE and how he is viewed and treated in this country go, all that Irish blood he has, and 90 cents, will get him a dollar.

"Early on, he tried to engage in certain discussions with Piggy, when they were alone, about things he was observing about the group, just do some "Black bonding" if you will. . She looked at him like he was speaking another language. It was clear that she didn't view herself as Black ,a nd hadn't really lived a "Black experience". She was all about the white folks on the RV,lol. Once he peeped that about her, he stopped talking to her altogether, and she couldn't understand why disliked her and wanted to know why. He basically told her that he expected her to be able to engage with him or empathize with his experience to some degree, eventhough she was half white, why?"

First of all, that's one person. Secondly, just because it can't be 100% assumed that we live the so called 'black experience', does that mean you should belittle us, or treat us as some foreign entity that doesn't belong? Ur just the same as all dem white folks!

"Because in my experience they are not as likely to be a 'PIGGY', as BiRacials from places like the UK are."

Again, there may be a trend, but even so, what's your problem if they are?

"THat's why I stated that I give AMERICAN bi-racials the benefit of the doubt, same as I give "full blooded", Black folks. Because in my experience they are not as likely to be a 'PIGGY', as BiRacials from places like the UK are. Does that mean that a bi-racial person can't turn out not to be deserving of that? Sure. Same as a "full blooded", Black can turn out not to be worthy of it. The default position, however, is that they(full blooded or biracials) will be worthy of it, and more often than not, they are, in my experience."

'the benefit of the doubt' - what is that supposed to mean? As though everyone is in some kind of segregation. You're acting exactly like the white folk are. Perhaps for slightly different reasons, but there are still some fundamental viewpoints you seem to share with white supremacists, but for your own race. Who are you to determine whether i'm worthy to be entitled to be classed as part of my heritage!

"That's been my point the whole time. In AMERICA bi racials are perceived and more importantly TREATED(funny how folks conveniently forget that in these theoretical discussions), as BLACK, by and large. OUtside of AMerica that is not the case. Because that's not the case, bi racials outside AMerica often DON'T view themselves as BLack because they are not LIVING a Black experience, because the whites in their country ALLOW them to LIVE some other experience. So as a practical matter, THEY are NOT Black, which is why I stated that I don't view them as Black, I view them like I view white people. I would not expect a white person to understand my experience in this country as a Black person (or really even be able to discuss it with cogency), no matter how 'well meaning" they are. It's not THEIR experience. "

Again, you talk from yoru biased viewpoint. I can't speak for all biracials in the UK, a few grow up in middle class environments, where its a bit different, but on the whole i can say that isn't the case for us mixed race people living here. Strictly speaking no biracial person lives a Black experience, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE! However, many of the struggles faced are similar, even if some a bit different. We also have to put up with black people who have a problem with us. On the whole, we're viewed as black, we're often refered to as black (perhaps less so than america, i don't know), and are often discriminated against consciously or subconciously by the general population. We don't live the strict black experience (same goes for biracials in america), but we live something of the sort. All the more reason for the different racial categories to stand, as then true discrimination against black people can be measured more accurately.

Gmahogany777 · (#227 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invertedzero

[i]

First of all, that's one person. Secondly, just because it can't be 100% assumed that we live the so called 'black experience', does that mean you should belittle us, or treat us as some foreign entity that doesn't belong? Ur just the same as all dem white folks!

Who is belittling you or treating you like some foreign entity?Just because I'm cognizant of who and what I'm dealing with, doesn't necessarily mean i'm doing either of those things. I interact with some white people in pleasant ways, everyday. That' doesn't mean I am not cognizant of the fact that they are white, or expect to be able to relate to them in regards to my experience as a BLack person. I view the "Piggy" type, IR person the SAME way. Kefla's problem was that he had an expectation of her, and when she didn't meet it, he was disappointed. My expectation of her would have been that she would act, just the way she DID act. I would have gotten along with her fine, same as I would have gotten along with the whites on the trip fine........

You can't have it both ways. I'm biracial so I don't have the true "Black experience", but why are you treating me like someone who has not had the true BLack experience? Either you have or you haven't. If you haven't it doesn't mean I hate you. It just means that is one area of life(a mighty BIG ONE), that I can't relate to you on, anymore than I can relate to whites or Asians on it. It's not the end of the world, there are plenty of other things we may be able to relate on, or maybe not. Either way, that's fine.

Again, there may be a trend, but even so, what's your problem if they are?

No problem at all. You're projecting your own emotions onto what I'm saying. I don't have a problem with biracials who act like Piggy(though they are rare here in the U.S.). They are free to act however they choose, and I am free to view them the way I view them: as de facto white people.

'the benefit of the doubt' - what is that supposed to mean? As though everyone is in some kind of segregation. You're acting exactly like the white folk are. Perhaps for slightly different reasons, but there are still some fundamental viewpoints you seem to share with white supremacists, but for your own race. Who are you to determine whether i'm worthy to be entitled to be classed as part of my heritage!

It means just what it SOUNDS like it means. VERY different reasons, is more accurate, and you are absolutely right, there are some fundamental viewpoints that I share with Crackers(I learned from the best, when in Rome, and all that good stuff), I never claimed otherwise. I don't get to determine how you are classified, MR. Charlie does,lol. I do however get to determine whether or not you are entitled to be part of my PERSONAL idea of the BLack collective, whether you are prone to have divided loyalty, same as I reserve the right to determine that about 2 BLACK PARENT having Negroes with Tom/sellout tendencies. You seem to think biracials should get special treatment of some kind, in that regard. I beg to differ.

Again, you talk from yoru biased viewpoint. I can't speak for all biracials in the UK, a few grow up in middle class environments, where its a bit different, but on the whole i can say that isn't the case for us mixed race people living here. Strictly speaking no biracial person lives a Black experience, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE! However, many of the struggles faced are similar, even if some a bit different. We also have to put up with black people who have a problem with us. On the whole, we're viewed as black, we're often refered to as black (perhaps less so than america, i don't know), and are often discriminated against consciously or subconciously by the general population. We don't live the strict black experience (same goes for biracials in america), but we live something of the sort. All the more reason for the different racial categories to stand, as then true discrimination against black people can be measured more accurately.

No biracial lives the Black experience? You obviously are speaking from the experience of living in the UK. It's QUITE possible, and PROBABLE for a biracial in AMerica to live the Black experience, which is precisely why the U.S. doesn't produce as many "Piggys", as the UK does. The reason there was a phenomenon called passing in this country was because even people with negligible Black genetics who were WAY whiter than the average biracial, WERE FORCED TO LIVE THE BLACK EXPERIENCE IN AMERICA. The only way NOT to live that experience was to be WHITE or be willing and able to pass for and live as WHITE. Close but no cigar, wasn't going to do the trick for you........

Somewhere in this thread, I believe, there was mention of a case called Plessy vs Ferguson regarding a "Black" person trying to sit in the "whites only" section of a railroad car. The only thing was that this "BLack" person, was genetically WHITER than ALL biracials and some of the people walking around identifying as WHITE. Not only did the Supreme Court not give a phuck about that, they upheld the state law that stated that "Black" people had to ride in the "colored" section of the train and didn't even ponder the question of how "barely black", the plaintiff was. I'd say the plaintiff, Homer Plessy, as "barely" Black as he was, can very much be said to have been living the BLACK EXPERIENCE. Any ways that he wasn't living it, are negligible at best.

As I've said a hundred times on this Board. Some of you are under the mistaken notion that race is solely or even mostly a genetic concept. It is not. It as much a cultural concept/SOCIAL CONSTRUCT, as it is a genetic one. In the U.S., that has always been PARTICULARLY true. That makes all the difference in the world.

makelovenotwar · (#228 (**permalink**))

I would like to say hello and welcome to Mr InvertedZero

makelovenotwar · (#229 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invertedzero

Who the actual hell are you to say I wish they would choose a side! Why should we have to? I'm sick of people discussing and dictating what they think we should ior should be refered to or consider ourselves as, as though we're some kind of lost dog that's about to be named! None of you own us so stop acting like you do and let us decide on the issue and deal with it! Just shut up! I don't dictate or have an opinion on what you shoud identify yourself as.

listen mr shelton, er sorry themulattokid,er sorry zack er sorry rethoric,er sorry mainsteam,er sorry blackgurly, er mad university, er sorry sekkel but there will be no anti- black tirades here.

Invertedzero · (#230 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmahogany777

No biracial lives the Black experience? You obviously are speaking from the experience of living in the UK. It's QUITE possible, and PROBABLE for a biracial in AMerica to live the Black experience, which is precisely why the U.S. doesn't produce as many "Piggys", as the UK does. The reason there was a phenomenon called passing in this country was because even people with negligible Black genetics who were WAY whiter than the average biracial, WERE FORCED TO LIVE THE BLACK EXPERIENCE IN AMERICA. The only way NOT to live that experience was to be WHITE or be willing and able to pass for and live as WHITE. Close but no cigar, wasn't going to do the trick for you........

Somewhere in this thread, I believe, there was mention of a case called Plessy vs Ferguson regarding a "Black" person trying to sit in the "whites only" section of a railroad car. The only thing was that this "BLack" person, was genetically WHITER than ALL biracials and some of the people walking around identifying as WHITE. Not only did the Supreme Court not give a phuck about that, they upheld the state law that stated that "Black" people had to ride in the "colored" section of the train and didn't even ponder the question of how "barely black", the plaintiff was. I'd say the plaintiff, Homer Plessy, as "barely" Black as he was, can very much be said to have been living the BLACK EXPERIENCE. Any ways that he wasn't living it, are negligible at best.

As I've said a hundred times on this Board. Some of you are under the mistaken notion that race is solely or even mostly a genetic concept. It is not. It as much a cultural concept/SOCIAL CONSTRUCT, as it is a genetic one. In the U.S., that has always been PARTICULARLY true. That makes all the difference in the world.

See, you still just don't get it do you? EVEN IN AMERICA THE MIXED RACE EXPERIENCE IS NOT THE SAME AS THE BLACK EXPERIENCE! I'm not talking as in black the racial construct, i don't believe in it. I'm talking about 'black' as in genetically.

1) im sure there are a minorty of people who treat or at least recognise that mixed race people are partially white. That recognition in itself, if nothing else, CAN and OFTEN leads to subconcious connections, which in turn affect the way they treat mixed race people compared to a black person, even though they're still regarded as being 'black'. In some cases as well, it can actually have a -ve effect, as some people don't like racial mixing, and therefore may 'approve' of a black person more than a mixed race. I don't deny that mixed race people in America face discrimination and the like close to or similar to the effect of black people, but their experience is not compeltely the same or comparable.

2) Even if they were given the 'black experience', which i assume you refer to as the view of being looked down upon by some white people, their expereince in life would not be the same as yours, stop being so self indulgent to think that all of our experiences are calculated in terms of a fraction of yours. We get different issues to put up with as well naturally from having white family. A black person does not have any direct white family. Therefore different issues arise from this. Such as for one example the frustration of being rejected by your own ethnic group that your parent's family fits into. Also being labelled or discriminated by some black people who don't like you because you're light skinned, for reasons which vary, but i'm sure you can figure. There are other complex issues to do with being mixed race that don't all revolve around living the black experience. Therefore, any biracial person wherever does not live the black experience. Usually they live something similar of the sort, and in cases face as much racism and crap, but it is not the same experience. And even if they don't, what's wrong with that? You're sortof saying that everything non-black is corrupt or bad or not worthy. worthy of what? belonging to your community. I wouldn't want to belong to your personal community if thats the case. I have my black family who i was mainly brought up with and friends who accept me for who I am, regardless of how white they percieve me to be, either physically or culturally. I'd rather not have to constantly be making an effort to fit in with people who don't regard me as being worthy of their time. Its as bad as how white people thought.

3) As i've already said, what's wrong with them being a piggy, you should accept and embrace them as part of your own no matter what they're experience is. In fact all races should do that of each other, but it seems we cant even do that for mixed race people.

4) RACE DOES NOT EXIST IN THE HUMAN GROUP. HUMANS ARE A RACE. (I simply use the terms as its easier to explain something to someone -i.e theyre the relavent terms society uses. I hope for this to change someday, but for now i can't see it.

Invertedzero · (#231 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by makelovenotwar

listen mr shelton, er sorry themulattokid,er sorry zack er sorry rethoric,er sorry mainsteam,er sorry blackgurly, er mad university, er sorry sekkel but there will be no anti- black tirades here.

What is anti-black about my post? I'm anti-(some people's stupid opinions). Some black people are racially prejudiced towards us. FACT. It's saying that i don't see why i should be forced to be labelled. I shall decide that for myslef, for the reasons mentioned. I ask you this question.

Are black genetics corrupt? Because that's what the one-drop rule implies. If I have a white father and black mother, but yet im labelled black, its implying that the white race is pure, and any black ancestry turns it impure. IT IS NOT.

I don't understand why black people decide to continue following this notion.

Invertedzero · (#232 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by makelovenotwar

listen mr shelton, er sorry themulattokid,er sorry zack er sorry rethoric,er sorry mainsteam,er sorry blackgurly, er mad university, er sorry sekkel but there will be no anti- black tirades here.

Actually, have i misinterpreted what you were saying? I'm confused. Thank you for the welcome and hello btw. Sorry if you weren't saying what i thought you were.

chi · (#233 (**permalink**))

I think its fair to say that all non -Whites experience raced based prejudice or discrimination in a similiar or at least related way. A mixed race person in the US would be seen as Black for the purposes of the one drop rule, and may share the same experience with Black people who are not biracial. However I have to say that the "one drop rule" definition of "Black" seems very fluid in the US.

A person can be black under the rule, but yet seen and related to as non- Black or not as "authentically Black", (for lack of a better word), as another Black person who does not have a White/Asian parent.

I think this plays itself out time after time.

As well as the similarity or same experiences shared by all "blacks", there are also specific issues which arise from being genetically attached to Whites at parental stage for mixed raced people. I think many mixed race people share in the Black experience along with non mixed Blacks, but there are other experiences in addition to those which non -biracial Blacks dont necessarily experience, for obvious reasons.

This is why I dont understand the one drop rule in the first place.....in reality it seems that there is White and non White (of different degrees of course). Although I believe a person can belong to more than one race at a time, but then that would defeat the purpose of the one drop rule, which was supposed to get around that......lol

.........this whole subject is confusing. It should be done away with....the one drop rule is a very racist rule if you ask me.

Black_Power · (#234 (**permalink**))

the one drop rule is actually an isnsult to black people

its like whatever cant be sorted out into the other races we can chuck it into the black box under the one drop rule.

Gmahogany777 · (#235 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invertedzero

See, you still just don't get it do you? EVEN IN AMERICA THE MIXED RACE EXPERIENCE IS NOT THE SAME AS THE BLACK EXPERIENCE! I'm not talking as in black the racial construct, i don't believe in it. I'm talking about 'black' as in genetically.

YOU still don't get it. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN RACE AS SOCIAL CONSTRUCT,lol. Non biracial Black folks didn't believe in it either. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?People like Rosa Parks who had as much white and Native American blood in them as Black blood, could have sat there arguing with the Crackers trying to drag her off the bus, about how she doesn't believe in race as "social construct", and she has as much non Black blood as she does Black blood. You all are talking in ABSTRACTS, IDEALS, that has nothing to do with you getting your head busted, or lynched, for breaking these taboos,or breaking these LAWS, or having to navigate them in real life. That expereience INFORMS you. It doesn't matter whether you SHOULD have had that experience, based on your GENETICS. ONce you've had the experience you are likely to be bonded with others who've had the experience.

1) im sure there are a minorty of people who treat or at least recognise that mixed race people are partially white. That recognition in itself, if nothing else, CAN and OFTEN leads to subconcious connections, which in turn affect the way they treat mixed race people compared to a black person, even though they're still regarded as being 'black'. In some cases as well, it can actually have a -ve effect, as some people don't like racial mixing, and therefore may 'approve' of a black person more than a mixed race. I don't deny that mixed race people in America face discrimination and the like close to or similar to the effect of black people, but their experience is not compeltely the same or comparable.

Sure they do, and they may feel a little more comfortable around you, and find you less threatening, but that's not unique to bi-racials, sorry to burst your bubble. THere are white people who will tell you that they don't view Continental AFricans or Carribean Blacks,or Hispanic Blacks, the same way they view AMerican Blacks. They like them better, find them easier to "deal with". That they have "less of a chip on their shoulder", etc. There are Continental Africans and Carribean BLacks in AMerica, and Hispanic Blacks who will BRAG about the fact that Whites "LIKE" them better,feel more comfortable around them, would rather deal with them,lol. THat's just what white folks do. No need for fools to get their heads gassed up about it,lol, or make more of it than what it is.....White folks have been giving "honorary white" status to folks for years, when it suits their purposes(just ask OJ). Bi racials aren't special in that regard.

I'm gonna show ya'll something about white people, cause ya'll clearly don't understand their psyches, eventhough some of you are closely related to them....

Malcolm X use to recount an incident that a friend told him. He stated that the friend was a very dark skinned Black AMerican, and that one day they were discussing how absurd white racism is, and how insane it and most white people are at their core. He said this friend told him I'm gonna show you how crazy Crackers are. THe friend lived in Richmond,Va, and of course this was back during segregation. The friend said if I walk into this segregated restaurant dressed like an AMerican with an AMerican accent(in other words as a native born Black person), they will run me out of here, BUT if I wrap something around my head, and come into the same restaruant with a fake accent, they will serve me, and not even blink. The friend tested out the theory and even went as far as to ask the waitress in his fake African accent if the restaruant served Black people. The waitress said in her thick Virginia drawl...."No we don't and no Black people would dare ever try to come in here and eat....."

A. This concept was not always and is not always about GENETICS for these people. Ya'll keep trying to make sense of something that makes no sense. Ya'll keep trying to make insanity be sane. It doesnt work.......You'lll just give yourself a headache....No matter how much Crackers play little head games with this or that group when it suits their purposes, the bottom line is still the same(you ain't one of them), and they will INVARIABLY let the fool with the gassed up head, know that before it's all over with it. That's the beauty of American racism.

2) Even if they were given the 'black experience', which i assume you refer to as the view of being looked down upon by some white people, their expereince in life would not be the same as yours, stop being so self indulgent to think that all of our experiences are calculated in terms of a fraction of yours. We get different issues to put up with as well naturally from having white family. A black person does not have any direct white family. Therefore different issues arise from this. Such as for one example the frustration of being rejected by your own ethnic group that your parent's family fits into. Also being labelled or discriminated by some black people who don't like you because you're light skinned, for reasons which vary, but i'm sure you can figure. There are other complex issues to do with being mixed race that don't all revolve around living the black experience. Therefore, any biracial person wherever does not live the black experience. Usually they live something similar of the sort, and in cases face as much racism and crap, but it is not the same experience. And even if they don't, what's wrong with that? You're sortof saying that everything non-black is corrupt or bad or not worthy. worthy of what? belonging to your community. I wouldn't want to belong to your personal community if thats the case. I have my black family who i was mainly brought up with and friends who accept me for who I am, regardless of how white they percieve me to be, either physically or culturally. I'd rather not have to constantly be making an effort to fit in with people who don't regard me as being worthy of their time. Its as bad as how white people thought.

So the fundamental difference in experience is that biracials are sometimes NOT accepted by white folks(whom they happen to be related to)non Biracial BLacks wouldn't know anything about not being "accepted" by white folks....., and sometimes not accepted for being light skinned or having "european" features, by Black folks (which plenty of 2 BLack parent Black folks experience...). I didnt say it was the SAME experience. A Black Hispanic is not going to have the EXACT same experience with Crackers as I do. Neither is a Black from another country, going to have the exact SAME experience as I do, a BLack man is not going to have the exact same experience I do with whites as a BLack woman(there are going to be somethings he experiences that i'm not as likely to experience, and vice versa), but the experience is similar enough for them not to sit there looking dumbfounded like PIggy,lol, or acting like i'm speaking another frigging language, called N*gger, or something,lol.

I never said anything about anybody having to make an effort to fit in with people. I told you I accept people as they are, and relate to them in whatever ways that I can relate to them(if I'm so inclined based on other things about them, like intellect,pleasantness, etc). I just said that for ME the BLack experience is a big chunk of me and it's important for ME in regards to relating to people beyond any superficial levels, usually. That's me, others don't feel that way. They are as eager to forget that they are BLack as you are,(not u specifically, u generally), or being Black is just coincidental or incidental to who they are. That's a match made in heaven.....

3) As i've already said, what's wrong with them being a piggy, you should accept and embrace them as part of your own no matter what they're experience is. In fact all races should do that of each other, but it seems we cant even do that for mixed race people.

Nothing wrong with Piggy being Piggy. I told you I would have gotten on with Piggy Fabulously....I don't know why that isn't enough for you.....

4) RACE DOES NOT EXIST IN THE HUMAN GROUP. HUMANS ARE A RACE. (I simply use the terms as its easier to explain something to someone -i.e theyre the relavent terms society uses. I hope for this to change someday, but for now i can't see it.

Again with the abstractions. Nobody knows that better than Black folks. AS usual folks who wanna pop this sh*t, always want to preach to the choir..........We're NOT the ones who don't understand that. We never have been the ones who didn't understand that....