WHAT DO WE REALLY THINK OF MIXED RACE/BIRACIAL PEOPLE? - Page 13

Gmahogany777 · (#301 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invertedzero

Oh yeh, I thought in an earlier post you said:

"Nothing wrong with Piggy being Piggy. I told you I would have gotten on with Piggy Fabulously....I don't know why that isn't enough for you....."

You talk absolute bullcrap, and just lie through yer rotting teeth. This world would really be better off without racist arseholes like yself trying to cause even more division on the preservation of your race.

You're just another KKK member to me.

I could do a British people need to stay off the subject of Bad/rotten teeth riff, but I won't........

Don't be simple minded. Just because I said that I would be able to get along with Piggy and she has the right to be who she is, doesn't mean I wasn't EMBARRASED by her. I can get along with all kinds of people. You don't have to do what I do for me to get along with you or find SOME area of commonality with you. I'm a people person....... That' doesn't mean I don't form an opinion about what you do. I'm embarrased any time I see a half Black person that knows absolutely nothing about Black people(and doesn't want to), and totally tries to glom onto white people, even when they are OBVIOUSLY not interested.

Piggy spent all of her time trying to ingratiate herself with the whites on the trip, particularly one white dude that she was feeling, Chadwick was his name, and he was SO obviously not interested in her. The funny thing was, that the whites on the trip treated her almost like a joke or an oddity of some kind. They almost seemed not to know what to do with her, these were white Americans so that may be why. It's hard for Americans to deal with you if you aren't clearly alligned with some cultural grouping, particularly the one that in their minds it's OBVIOUS that you should be affiliated with. Conversely, they kissed Kefla's a*ss. Probably because he wasn't trying to insert himself in THEIR rectums, like she was. Probably because he was content with who HE was and LIKED who he was, and KNEW who he was. White folks are funny that way. Kefla would be off by himself, reading a book, they'd come looking for him...'Kefla what's wrong?" "Kefla why don't you hang out with us more?" "Kefla are you mad at us?", etc.....

Gmahogany777 · (#302 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invertedzero

lookin forward to it

oh and how can you misinterpret that, or even not mean to say that. You must be very selective when it comes to who your generalised comments are based towards...

you're just trying to play the nice guy now, stop talking crap cause you've already made it clear how you really feel.

I've been on this Board over 4 years, and have over 4000 posts, collectively. My views on this topic and others are well known by anyone who has been on this Board for a while. I couldn't play Mrs. Nice Guy or disavow what I've posted, if I wanted to,lol. I don't want to, btw.

I MEANT what I said in my responses. For the record, I RARELY, if ever, say anything I don't mean. I'm way too thought out for that. What I was conveying to Afriki, is that I didn't MEAN what I said to be taken personally by HER. I was not trying to take shots at what she said. I could tell from her response(particularly her comment about my 'long ass" post,lol) that she thought that I was responding to HER and her post, in particular. She's been on this Board for a long time, I consider her a part of the BNV family/community, as a matter of fact, she's one of the Biracial people that I present as Exhibit A, to support my views about the differences in what the UK produces, and what the U.S. produces, generally speaking), in the way of Biracials so I didn't want her to be unneccesarily offended. I don't have a problem offending people, there is a time and place for that, but I like it to be INTENTIONAL, when I do it.

Having said that though, I'm not going to take or express a position on this topic or any other topic, that I don't really feel, just because it might offend someone that I would rather not offend.

alabamagirl · (#303 (**permalink**))

Gmahogany, you only have 1,433 posts.

Gmahogany777 · (#304 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afriki

I don't normally respond to long-ass posts...especially ones that delve into an extreme detailed response to one of mine and, yet, manages to completely miss every target I set up.
But, I'm feeling rather divulgent tonight.

As Black folks in the South say, Alright sister,lol.....

I do appreciate your response Gmahogany and the thought you put into it, however, if I am reading it as a response to my post, it really makes little sense to me.

My response made little sense to you when reading it as a direct response to your post, because it wasn't a direct response to your post. I'm typically very directed and pointed when responding to someone specifically, See my responses to InvertedZero. Plus, I'll usually quote them. Sometimes I'm responding to a general, overall theme that I've seen in SEVERAL people's posts. In those instances, I don't feel compelled to quote anyone in particular, cause i'm not talking to anyone in particular.

Now, I WAS trying to put a fine point on what you and others were saying about the genetic/cultural distinction. I know and understand what you meant by what you were saying, and I don't disagree with it, fundamentally. However, you aren't the only person who was making that argument, either in this go round on this topic or in past go rounds on this topic. Most of the time the people making that argument on this Board, are NON biracial Black folks who are making the argument as a basis for why Biracial people can't be trusted and should not be considered a part of the BLack collective. As a matter of fact, the first time I used my perceived reality/reality policeman example(which you were utterly unimpressed by) was in an exchange long ago in this very thread, when someone was making a blanket statement about ALL biracials not being trustworthy, and being proned towared undermining and sabotaging our agenda,selling us out, because of dual or conflicted loyalties, EVEN when that person had done nothing to indicate they had conflicted loyalties or couldn't be trusted. I was trying to make the point the EXPERIENCE weighs just as heavy as genetics and sometimes can trump it, and that all Biracials can't be painted with the same brush, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, etc. etc....

My basis for my view is that I've had a couple of biracial people as friends over the years, and the idea that because they have one white parent, they are in denial about the experience of being a non white person in AMerica is, or loathe to comment on it, or don't notice or experience it, doesn't ring true for me. One of my best friends in high school and college, was a biracial dude. I mentioned him earlier in this thread. His biological mom was white and his father was Black. HIs dad got remarried to a Black woman, and my friend and his brother (they had the same mother) lived with his father and step mom. This dude would in one breath talk about how his mom looked like Carol Brady of the Brady bunch, and speak with affection about her, and seemlessly make a comment about white racism, and feel no compunction at all. He didn't see it as a conflict and we didn't either,lol. It wouldn't be a rah rah, down with whitey,over the top comment either, it would just be TRUE REAL LIFE OBSERVATIONS, that any regular Black person could and would observe and comment on. Hell, we'd be talking about stuff sometimes and he'd pick up on some racist nuance that I didn't even focus on at first, but after he pointed it out, I would be like, damn....,lol

That's why I a. don't have much tolerance for the "tragic mulatto I'm so confused blues", and b. don't buy into the idea that all biracials are antithetical to the interest of the Black collective. Beyond that, I got two words for ya'll......Bob Marley.....what????????

ok, so this part we agree on.

Just to clarify though, the only folks I was "popping it" to in my post were confused Mulattos who do not understand this concept and twist their necks around to either conform to or deny an equally confused society, and in the process forgetting to rely on an understanding and acceptance of sense of self.

I understood what you were saying, and I understood who you were saying it to. As I've stated before, I'm familiar with your views on this topic. I knew what you meant and what you didn't mean. I'm just not sure that everyone else did, and I'm not sure that what you were saying wasn't generating some "unintended consequences", if you will.

oh, lord. Not this sorry, ad nauseum, excuse of a metaphor. Sorry, I'm unimpressed by sensationalism.
Honestly, when I read this, I see it as a sad attempt at knocking me off of some mixed, uppity, high-horse you incorrectly "perceive" me to be up on. I can guarantee you I'm not riding that horse. And if you feel that by me merely offering my honesty about the reality of being biracial justifies a preemptive attack on what you "perceive" is my misunderstanding of the concept of being unfairly treated by whites as a non-white person in America then you are singing to the wrong choir.

Again, I've READ your posts on this topic and others, going back over an extended period of time. I know that you aren't on some "mixed, uppity high horse,type of thing,lol. That's not why I used that metaphor. Really.

The one point that you did bring up in direct disagreement to my own is that perceived reality trumps reality. I don't believe this.
I may not be any less dead...but neither is my daddy any less white.
And while I'm alive I will continue to acknowledge that because to not do so would be to deceive myself, and because, should I ever become disillusioned, by that time I won't know who I am--confusion is breeding ground for the tragic mulatto. Nope, I'd rather play it safe and perceive myself through reality, not others' perceptions.

My reason for using that metaphor, extreme as it may be, was to combat what I see as a continued glibness and oversimplification when discussing this matter. People say stupid sH*t like why did/do you all 'ACCEPT" this or that, in this very abstract, totally devoid from real life way. "oh, just because white folks said thus and so, it was so? Yes, mutherphugger,pretty much, lol. It annoys me, it's very dismissive and arrogant, and it usually comes from people who have not lived, are NOT living the experience that they are commenting on. As if one can just see oneself what ever way one chooses, and not have to navigate a world where one is not SEEN that way, and not TREATED that way, AND that once one is SEEN AND TREATED THAT WAY for an extended period of time, that EXPERIENCE does not AFFECT and INFORM them.

I guess if yt people see Africans as lazy, no-gooders then we shall perceive ourselves as such as well? Can't really follow your logic, or quite frankly the point you were attempting to make in this entry.

I wasn't talking about perceptions from others that can't be directly acted apon and imposed on you. A regular white person THINKING all Blacks are no good and criminally inclined is one thing, as long as he has no power to affect Black people's lives. Who cares? A white person with a gun and a badge who thinks that and has the abilitity/authority AND RESPONSIBILITY to make very subjective life and death judgements that directly affect real live in the flesh Black folks , can't be as easily or glibly dismissed. To not worry about THAT mutherphuggers perception, is to take your life in your hands.....It can easily be demonstrated that the many cases of police brutality/ misconduct/judicial misconduct/D.A. overcharging, being followed around department stores,unfairness we experience on jobs and myriad other indignities, that MANY Black people experience on a daily basis are the result of WHITE PERCEPTION of Black folks. So the idea that it doesn't matter what other people think, as long as I know xyz, it's great in theory, and it even works in the real world, TO SOME DEGREE, but it's not as cut and dried or as simplistic as some folks try to play it like it is, ESPECIALLY in a place with the power dynamic set up that does not favor the "perceived" group. THAT was my point.

ETA: I liked the BN rule about not having Bi/multiracial debates. I think we should kill this thread and stick to purely African issues.

I don't agree. I think it's good to get a lot of this stuff out in the open. Some things need to be said, so the air can be cleared. I feel the same way about other rifts among different groups of BLack folks. Then again, I don't know if I'd feel the same way if I was biracial, so maybe you're right......

Gmahogany777 · (#305 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabamagirl

Gmahogany, you only have 1,433 posts.

I've had to change my screename a couple of times over the years, due to technical glitches. I never change it drastically, just enough to have the system generate a new account for me, so I could friggin log in. Under my COMBINED screen names, of Gmahogany,Gmahogany, Gmahogany777, and maybe one or 2 more, I have over 4000 posts. People who have been around for a while, know that that all of those screenames are ME,lol.

alabamagirl · (#306 (**permalink**))

Multiracial issues should not be a part of this forum, period. I really feel that this thread should be closed.

alabamagirl · (#307 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmahogany777

I've had to change my screename a couple of times over the years, due to technical glitches. I never change it drastically, just enough to have the system generate a new account for me, so I could friggin log in. Under my COMBINED screen names, of Gmahogany,Gmahogany, Gmahogany777, and maybe one or 2 more, I have over 4000 posts. People who have been around for a while, know that that all of those screenames are ME,lol.

Oh, okay. I see.

Afriki · (#308 (**permalink**))

Quote:

I don't normally respond to long-ass posts...especially ones that delve into an extreme detailed response to one of mine and, yet, manages to completely miss every target I set up.
But, I'm feeling rather divulgent tonight.

As Black folks in the South say, Alright sister,lol.....

I do appreciate your response Gmahogany and the thought you put into it, however, if I am reading it as a response to my post, it really makes little sense to me.

My response made little sense to you when reading it as a direct response to your post, because it wasn't a direct response to your post. I'm typically very directed and pointed when responding to someone specifically, See my responses to InvertedZero. Plus, I'll usually quote them. Sometimes I'm responding to a general, overall theme that I've seen in SEVERAL people's posts. In those instances, I don't feel compelled to quote anyone in particular, cause i'm not talking to anyone in particular.

Now, I WAS trying to put a fine point on what you and others were saying about the genetic/cultural distinction. I know and understand what you meant by what you were saying, and I don't disagree with it, fundamentally. However, you aren't the only person who was making that argument, either in this go round on this topic or in past go rounds on this topic. Most of the time the people making that argument on this Board, are NON biracial Black folks who are making the argument as a basis for why Biracial people can't be trusted and should not be considered a part of the BLack collective. As a matter of fact, the first time I used my perceived reality/reality policeman example(which you were utterly unimpressed by) was in an exchange long ago in this very thread, when someone was making a blanket statement about ALL biracials not being trustworthy, and being proned towared undermining and sabotaging our agenda,selling us out, because of dual or conflicted loyalties, EVEN when that person had done nothing to indicate they had conflicted loyalties or couldn't be trusted. I was trying to make the point the EXPERIENCE weighs just as heavy as genetics and sometimes can trump it, and that all Biracials can't be painted with the same brush, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, etc. etc....

My basis for my view is that I've had a couple of biracial people as friends over the years, and the idea that because they have one white parent, they are in denial about the experience of being a non white person in AMerica is, or loathe to comment on it, or don't notice or experience it, doesn't ring true for me. One of my best friends in high school and college, was a biracial dude. I mentioned him earlier in this thread. His biological mom was white and his father was Black. HIs dad got remarried to a Black woman, and my friend and his brother (they had the same mother) lived with his father and step mom. This dude would in one breath talk about how his mom looked like Carol Brady of the Brady bunch, and speak with affection about her, and seemlessly make a comment about white racism, and feel no compunction at all. He didn't see it as a conflict and we didn't either,lol. It wouldn't be a rah rah, down with whitey,over the top comment either, it would just be TRUE REAL LIFE OBSERVATIONS, that any regular Black person could and would observe and comment on. Hell, we'd be talking about stuff sometimes and he'd pick up on some racist nuance that I didn't even focus on at first, but after he pointed it out, I would be like, damn....,lol

That's why I a. don't have much tolerance for the "tragic mulatto I'm so confused blues", and b. don't buy into the idea that all biracials are antithetical to the interest of the Black collective. Beyond that, I got two words for ya'll......Bob Marley.....what????????

ok, so this part we agree on.

Just to clarify though, the only folks I was "popping it" to in my post were confused Mulattos who do not understand this concept and twist their necks around to either conform to or deny an equally confused society, and in the process forgetting to rely on an understanding and acceptance of sense of self.

I understood what you were saying, and I understood who you were saying it to. As I've stated before, I'm familiar with your views on this topic. I knew what you meant and what you didn't mean. I'm just not sure that everyone else did, and I'm not sure that what you were saying wasn't generating some "unintended consequences", if you will.

oh, lord. Not this sorry, ad nauseum, excuse of a metaphor. Sorry, I'm unimpressed by sensationalism.
Honestly, when I read this, I see it as a sad attempt at knocking me off of some mixed, uppity, high-horse you incorrectly "perceive" me to be up on. I can guarantee you I'm not riding that horse. And if you feel that by me merely offering my honesty about the reality of being biracial justifies a preemptive attack on what you "perceive" is my misunderstanding of the concept of being unfairly treated by whites as a non-white person in America then you are singing to the wrong choir.

Again, I've READ your posts on this topic and others, going back over an extended period of time. I know that you aren't on some "mixed, uppity high horse,type of thing,lol. That's not why I used that metaphor. Really.

The one point that you did bring up in direct disagreement to my own is that perceived reality trumps reality. I don't believe this.
I may not be any less dead...but neither is my daddy any less white.
And while I'm alive I will continue to acknowledge that because to not do so would be to deceive myself, and because, should I ever become disillusioned, by that time I won't know who I am--confusion is breeding ground for the tragic mulatto. Nope, I'd rather play it safe and perceive myself through reality, not others' perceptions.

My reason for using that metaphor, extreme as it may be, was to combat what I see as a continued glibness and oversimplification when discussing this matter. People say stupid sH*t like why did/do you all 'ACCEPT" this or that, in this very abstract, totally devoid from real life way. "oh, just because white folks said thus and so, it was so? Yes, mutherphugger,pretty much, lol. It annoys me, it's very dismissive and arrogant, and it usually comes from people who have not lived, are NOT living the experience that they are commenting on. As if one can just see oneself what ever way one chooses, and not have to navigate a world where one is not SEEN that way, and not TREATED that way, AND that once one is SEEN AND TREATED THAT WAY for an extended period of time, that EXPERIENCE does not AFFECT and INFORM them.

I guess if yt people see Africans as lazy, no-gooders then we shall perceive ourselves as such as well? Can't really follow your logic, or quite frankly the point you were attempting to make in this entry.

I wasn't talking about perceptions from others that can't be directly acted apon and imposed on you. A regular white person THINKING all Blacks are no good and criminally inclined is one thing, as long as he has no power to affect Black people's lives. Who cares? A white person with a gun and a badge who thinks that and has the abilitity/authority AND RESPONSIBILITY to make very subjective life and death judgements that directly affect real live in the flesh Black folks , can't be as easily or glibly dismissed. To not worry about THAT mutherphuggers perception, is to take your life in your hands.....It can easily be demonstrated that the many cases of police brutality/ misconduct/judicial misconduct/D.A. overcharging, being followed around department stores,unfairness we experience on jobs and myriad other indignities, that MANY Black people experience on a daily basis are the result of WHITE PERCEPTION of Black folks. So the idea that it doesn't matter what other people think, as long as I know xyz, it's great in theory, and it even works in the real world, TO SOME DEGREE, but it's not as cut and dried or as simplistic as some folks try to play it like it is, ESPECIALLY in a place with the power dynamic set up that does not favor the "perceived" group. THAT was my point.

ETA: I liked the BN rule about not having Bi/multiracial debates. I think we should kill this thread and stick to purely African issues.

I don't agree. I think it's good to get a lot of this stuff out in the open. Some things need to be said, so the air can be cleared. I feel the same way about other rifts among different groups of BLack folks. Then again, I don't know if I'd feel the same way if I was biracial, so maybe you're right......

yes, alright sister lol. Well thankyou for taking the time to clear things up. I don't really mind being offended, at least I don't tend to carry it around with me so you don't have to be concerned bout that but I appreciate you clarifying your post...I suspected it wasn't all for me but wasn't sure you know.
In after thought now I could have been less "snippy" (that's yall's word right?) and defensive in my response.

Also, I do understand what you were trying to convey with the reality vs. perception argument...it's one I've used myself and I do consider a valuable theory depending on the individual and how much they allow their worldview to be influenced by societal view...which unfortunately is more often than not.

Anywho all's well that end's well. I'm just taking my little yellow butt out of this thread from now on lol.

Invertedzero · (#309 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmahogany777

I could do a British people need to stay off the subject of Bad/rotten teeth riff, but I won't........

Don't be simple minded. Just because I said that I would be able to get along with Piggy and she has the right to be who she is, doesn't mean I wasn't EMBARRASED by her. I can get along with all kinds of people. You don't have to do what I do for me to get along with you or find SOME area of commonality with you. I'm a people person....... That' doesn't mean I don't form an opinion about what you do. I'm embarrased any time I see a half Black person that knows absolutely nothing about Black people(and doesn't want to), and totally tries to glom onto white people, even when they are OBVIOUSLY not interested.

Piggy spent all of her time trying to ingratiate herself with the whites on the trip, particularly one white dude that she was feeling, Chadwick was his name, and he was SO obviously not interested in her. The funny thing was, that the whites on the trip treated her almost like a joke or an oddity of some kind. They almost seemed not to know what to do with her, these were white Americans so that may be why. It's hard for Americans to deal with you if you aren't clearly alligned with some cultural grouping, particularly the one that in their minds it's OBVIOUS that you should be affiliated with. Conversely, they kissed Kefla's a*ss. Probably because he wasn't trying to insert himself in THEIR rectums, like she was. Probably because he was content with who HE was and LIKED who he was, and KNEW who he was. White folks are funny that way. Kefla would be off by himself, reading a book, they'd come looking for him...'Kefla what's wrong?" "Kefla why don't you hang out with us more?" "Kefla are you mad at us?", etc.....

Sorry if I misinterpreted that, I get what you mean. For once... I agree with you there.

. But if a mixed person grows up around mainly whites then what else are they to do? Yeh, when they get older there's a chance they'll make an attempt to learn more about their black side, but some people don't. It aint really their fault they're not used to black culture n stuff. But i do get however when you say about the mixed person who despite everything admires the white person more than anything, that's just sad imo.

I assume in America its the same as England in the respect that in different areas have different attitudes. There are areas here where Black and White people get on fine, from what ive noticed usually working class areas where there's a more equal mix of people. It was like that at my primary school, noticed the difference when i got to secondary school however, where there were more middle class white. Weren't any all-out racism, but you could tell some people had their ideals. Then theres areas of the country where there's more nationalists, and supporters of the BNP, but generally they're in the minority. Most people fit into that middle category.

There are things you've said (and others) however in previous posts that I completely don't agree with and I think was unfair. Some of us get just as much crap from some black people when we try to belong to them, as Piggy did with the white people. This is why, even though I identify with black culture more, I prefer to call myself mixed race. It aint because I think i'm better than anybody, I don't care how society percieves it, its what I am, and it causes less confusion. Noone can accuse me of doing anything as far as i'm concerned than sticking to who I am.

Yeh and in the past people have just had to accept things, but I don't see why it's the case today. Don't put all white people in the same box, they're humans just like anyone else. Every race has had wars and makes mistakes, but most of those people are dead now. yeh there are still racist idiots about, and much of it, but many are open to things far more so than before. Nations change and learn. Look at Germany, while I have no doubt theres still nazi supporting freaks there, many of the people are ashamed of their country's past. I just think people need to be careful they don't go down a similar road with black power, as those different groups have on various occasions, because I get worried of that, especially with how some people go on.

Afriki · (#310 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmahogany777

Having said that though, I'm not going to take or express a position on this topic or any other topic, that I don't really feel, just because it might offend someone that I would rather not offend.

that's pretty much my feeling in the matter. Honestly I don't know how I ended up in here. I've managed to pretty much avoid this thread as most mixed-race issues don't really interest me, and especially on a forum like this. I'm pretty hesitant to get into the mix with this topic where I am one of but a handful of mixed-race individuals and the majority here (understandably) have a low tolerance for this type of discussion.