WHAT DO WE REALLY THINK OF MIXED RACE/BIRACIAL PEOPLE? - Page 9

Afriki · (#201 (**permalink**))

meh.......

BLACKCHAT · (#202 (**permalink**))

Hey "makelovenotwar " why do you care what these people think about us? They are not apart of our community. For you to come in here as (a black?) and bring in the thoughts of confused racist misfits is disrespectful. Don't you think we get enough racism from racist whites already?

While your at it about black features:

Lewis Hamilton fans

Many may argue that the spanish are about the same skintone as some half black half white mixed race people.

Many in the uk are raising whole generations of mixed race people who can't deal with the reality of the one drop rule, which is almost worldwide. Even in places where there isn't a significant black population. Unfortunately we will get the majority of the racism because some are placed in our group. Even theones who we don't consider apart of our culture and community.

DARTHLORD · (#203 (**permalink**))

Why has this thread been moved to the Under 25's forum?

Is MAKELOVENOTWAR a white supremacist supsect?

Is MAKELOVENOTWAR a confused/deluded, frustrated and angry hostage of white supremacist racists?

Are MAKELOVENOTWAR's musings on eradicating diversity and cultural differences in this society a serious cause for concern in addition to right wing rubbish?

Is MAKELOVENOTWAR's analyses rational or just a harsh reflection of her own emotional issues stemming from the fact that she may have had little or no contact with a biological parent classified as Black/Non white?

What has led MAKELOVENOTWAR to the conclusion that persons classed as Black feel:

A need for person classified as Mixed Race?

The need to be compensated by persons classified as White?

Suggestions:

It may be beneficial for MAKELOVENOTWAR to research the legacy of slavery and it's psychosocial effects on the African diaspora to date.

This may help MAKELOVENOTWAR to realise:

Persons classified as Black in the West continue to be socially engineered to self destruction this is the result of immediate generations of enslaved Africans were socially engineered to provide mentally weak yet physically strong Black male offspring for long term economic benefits and psychological independent future mothers to produce the next generations of the above. MAKELOVENOTWAR would do well to appreciate this legacy forms part of the reality of persons classed as Black in the diaspora today.

The economic opportunities and percieved success enjoyed by immigrants from Central &South America,Africa(to some degree),Asia,The Middle East and the Far East are irrelevant considering the different legacies these communities have notwithstanding their cultural backgrounds and other mechanisms which serve to afford them foundations on which to build. As opposed to a slave/slave making mentality as have been imbibed into the African psyche during the last 300+ years.

(The above is not an endorsement of the Willie Lynch Letter.)

pattypan · (#204 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmahogany.

When I see a mixed race person from the UK, South AFrica, Brazil, or a few other places, I consider them mixed race and don't view them any differently than I view a white person. Don't expect anything from them or trust them(unless they show and prove).

This suggests that you view all white people as the same. That's no different from a white person viewing all black people as the same. As for not expecting anything from or trusting: a black OR a white person should not automatically trust or have expectations of a stranger from their own background without good reason.

A biracial person will often be seen as black by members of society but rarely as white. To a certain extent you become what you are perceived as, even if that is incorrect.

Ignoring people who are obviously biracial for a minute, people who clearly show as either "black" or "white" will always be considered so even if they know their family history is not quite so straightforward. If you face discrimination because of your ethnicity it doesn't matter if the discriminator has got it slightly wrong, it won't make you feel better.

What I'm getting at is that a lot more people are actually biracial that those that are considered to be. A biracial person is not twice as good as the next man but is not only half as good either.

Gmahogany777 · (#205 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by pattypan

This suggests that you view all white people as the same. That's no different from a white person viewing all black people as the same. As for not expecting anything from or trusting: a black OR a white person should not automatically trust or have expectations of a stranger from their own background without good reason.

I DO view all white people the same when it comes to most things,( in a general sense), I've never claimed otherwise and don't care whether its different or the same as what a white person does or doesn't do(there are things that white people do that I think Black people SHOULD do more of). ; but that's not what I was alluding to, with that comment. I also was not alluding to any PERSONAL trust of strangers, like letting them borrow my car, though it's interesting that this is what you concluded from parsing my comments. I was being hyperbolic , to some extent, not necessarily literal.

I was alluding to a commonality of racial experience, therefore worldview, and therefore interests. A biracial person in America is more likely to have the same experience as a Black person in AMerica, than a bi racial person outside of AMerica,is. It's difficult to explain, but even when Blacks in AMerica are total and complete strangers, there is usually an understanding and a certain worldview regarding race and it's machinations, how they play out here. Sometimes words are not even necessary to communicate about these things. In my experience, most biracials from AMerica can and do participate in those conversations, and even INITIATE those conversations as well as non bi-racial Blacks. MOst AA's assume that about "biracials" until they prove otherwise, same as we do about "full blooded' Blacks.

I'll give u an example. There is an MTV show called Road Rules. Some years back they went through Australia by RV, and there was one Black dude on the show, named Kefla from B-ham,Alabama, and one 'mixed race" chick named PIggy, who was from the UK. Everyone else was white. Kefla got along with the whites on the RV, but missed being around the Black folks at home. Early on, he tried to engage in certain discussions with Piggy, when they were alone, about things he was observing about the group, just do some "Black bonding" if you will. . She looked at him like he was speaking another language. It was clear that she didn't view herself as Black ,a nd hadn't really lived a "Black experience". She was all about the white folks on the RV,lol. Once he peeped that about her, he stopped talking to her altogether, and she couldn't understand why disliked her and wanted to know why. He basically told her that he expected her to be able to engage with him or empathize with his experience to some degree, eventhough she was half white, why? because most American bi-racials WOULD have been able to, that's why. The American experience typically ensures that they are able to do so , that's why. Not so much , in other places.

THat's why I stated that I give AMERICAN bi-racials the benefit of the doubt, same as I give "full blooded", Black folks. Because in my experience they are not as likely to be a 'PIGGY', as BiRacials from places like the UK are. Does that mean that a bi-racial person can't turn out not to be deserving of that? Sure. Same as a "full blooded", Black can turn out not to be worthy of it. The default position, however, is that they(full blooded or biracials) will be worthy of it, and more often than not, they are, in my experience.

A biracial person will often be seen as black by members of society but rarely as white. To a certain extent you become what you are perceived as, even if that is incorrect.

That's been my point the whole time. In AMERICA bi racials are perceived and more importantly TREATED(funny how folks conveniently forget that in these theoretical discussions), as BLACK, by and large. OUtside of AMerica that is not the case. Because that's not the case, bi racials outside AMerica often DON'T view themselves as BLack because they are not LIVING a Black experience, because the whites in their country ALLOW them to LIVE some other experience. So as a practical matter, THEY are NOT Black, which is why I stated that I don't view them as Black, I view them like I view white people. I would not expect a white person to understand my experience in this country as a Black person (or really even be able to discuss it with cogency), no matter how 'well meaning" they are. It's not THEIR experience.

Correctness has nothing to do with it. It wasn't CORRECT when our ancestors were brought here as slaves as Mandika, Hausa, Mende, etc, and THEY were all lumped into the same group and told they were the SAME. They were not the same people, but because of their same Hellish EXPERIENCE, they BECAME he same people. That's how that works........

Ignoring people who are obviously biracial for a minute, people who clearly show as either "black" or "white" will always be considered so even if they know their family history is not quite so straightforward. If you face discrimination because of your ethnicity it doesn't matter if the discriminator has got it slightly wrong, it won't make you feel better.

Again, you're stating things that have been the theme of every post i've made in this thread, so I'm not sure what we're supposed to be disagreeing about........

What I'm getting at is that a lot more people are actually biracial that those that are considered to be. A biracial person is not twice as good as the next man but is not only half as good either.

Preaching to the choir is your specialty, it seems,lol. There are BLack folks walking around with as many European genetics as African ones, like Dr. Henry Louis Gates who hosted the recent AA LIves 2, yet he has 2 Black parents and looks like plenty of Black folks walking around in AMerica, and elsewhere, I'm sure. As far as his EXPERIENCE and how he is viewed and treated in this country go, all that Irish blood he has, and 90 cents, will get him a dollar.

Black_Power · (#206 (**permalink**))

lol @ thats story about "piggy"

I had a simular story to that at college but her name was sarah...shocked the hell outta me that someone who clearly was more black in appearance that white had NO connection with blackfolks at all nor wished to...

Now I might have upset a few people here but I think in SOME cases its has to do with the absent father and what the mother and extended family (white side) treat the kid. I know of a white neighbour of mine who has a mixed race grandaughter and in my view treats her like a special needs child making her get up earlier that her white siblings because her hair takes longer to prepair and other foolishness...always pointing out that she does this n that because she is black (like she loves chicken and is a good dancer) shit like that can make you wanna block out the blackness just to fit it.

I swear people dont know how to deal with children sometimes..

chi · (#207 (**permalink**))

...lol....I will never forget when I was younger, there was these two kids who were looked after by a White childminder. These people brainwashed them into thinking they were White. They were Black, the only thing White in them was their teeth. I remember being in absolute shock when we started talking to them and they said they were White, even at that young age I confronted the children of the White caretaker......only to have them say, yeah we dont see them as Black, they are White!

These kids were the colour of whoopie Goldberg....I shudder to think how life has sent them crashing to earth as they grew up.

Not only that, they were having some sort of party for one of the children, so ofcourse me and my sister went (with our foolish selves)....only to be turned away by the Dad, because there were " too many N*ggers in house already."

BLACKCHAT · (#208 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmahogany777

Preaching to the choir is your specialty, it seems,lol. There are BLack folks walking around with as many European genetics as African ones, like Dr. Henry Louis Gates who hosted the recent AA LIves 2, yet he has 2 Black parents and looks like plenty of Black folks walking around in AMerica, and elsewhere, I'm sure. As far as his EXPERIENCE and how he is viewed and treated in this country go, all that Irish blood he has, and 90 cents, will get him a dollar.

Gmy, I would totally believe that most Americans see biracial people as black if it wasn't for folks like Tiger woods. The man looks more black than Gates. Yet that doesn't stop him and others from rejecting the label. Did we mention that he was beating up as a very young child and called a monkey? His father didn't want him to have anything to do with his AA side it seems. He coined the pharse Cablinasian .In the past America was big on the one drop rule but there were still people like Tiger woods. Why do you think the black American population stayed at 12 percent for so many years? Many biracial Americans pass over into hispanic or white. Like that author from the New york times.

The UK is a bit different. Most mixed race people live with a white parent,and some only think about the white side because thats what they grew up with. You have some who travel abroad to other European countries and they don't know how to deal with the black experience when its in their face. What they fail to realise is mixed race people who are half Asian half white don't get the same racism. The black popultions in caribbean has more history,or a better understanding than those in the UK.

Gmahogany777 · (#209 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLACKCHAT

Gmy, I would totally believe that most Americans see biracial people as black if it wasn't for folks like Tiger woods. The man looks more black than Gates. Yet that doesn't stop him and others from rejecting the label. Did we mention that he was beating up as a very young child and called a monkey? His father didn't want him to have anything to do with his AA side. He coined the pharse Cablinasian .In the past America was big on the one drop rule but there were still people like Tiger woods. Why do you think the black American population stayed at 12 percent for so many years? Many biracial Americans pass over into hispanic or white. Like that author from the New york times.

You think Tiger looks more Black than Gates? How? I've seen and known plenty of Black men that look like Gates, some in my family. THere is nothing a-typical about the way he looks as BLack folks go. Tiger looks Asian to me. He looks like plenty of Black Amerasians who were the product of Black Asian mixes, like AMerie, Sonja Sohn from the Wire, etc. You see them a lot in the Black community in America so he's not unique(I grew up with plenty of them in the DC area, Black Fillipino mix, usually), but that's not a TYPICAL Black American look. If I passed Gates on the street, I wouldn't think twice about his racial background.

First off, you should never confuse the way white people view/treat Biracial or even "fully Black' celebrities, with how they treat regular everyday Biracials and non Bi racial Blacks. White people will often bestow "honorary white" status on Blacks who have become very successful at something, whether they are bi racial or fully Black. White rock establishment people routinely talk about how they don't really see Jimi Hendrix as Black,(though he had 2 Black parents and came out of the Black Blues music scene, played with the Isley bros, etc). That's just something they do, so they can take credit for whatever the accomplishment is. That is not something that is extended to non famous, non rich, non accomplished bi racials,lol.

Even with Tiger's father not wanting him to identify with being Black and Tiger's proclamation of Caublasianess, and white folks supposedly not seeing him as BLack, his white golfing peer, and his white female friend commentator, still haven't been able to refrain from making comments about him that prove that they do indeed see him as Black, even as barely BLack as he is. I assume that you mean that TIger was beaten up and called monkey by white people, as a child. THat would seem to support my argument that even someone as barely Black as Tiger, is VIEWED AND TREATED as BLack, by most whites, at least until they become rich and famous, and even then, it will rear it's head now and then.

You're comments about Blacks passing over to the other side, like the dude from AA LIves 2, PROVES my point. If the majority of white AMerica didn't view AND treat biracial Blacks or just Blacks with copius amounts of white blood as Black, why would those who LOOKED TO THE NAKED EYE LIKE WHITE PEOPLE, feel the need to PASS for white? Why not just exist in AMerica looking like a white person, but not hide your Black background/blood. These very white looking "Black people", felt the need to pass BECAUSE once white people knew you had ANY Black in you, it was a WRAP. It didn't matter that you LOOKED white. BTW, it wasn't BIRACIALS who soley, or even typically passed, historically. If by biracial, you mean persons with 1 white and 1 Black parent. The majority of people who passed had 2 Black parents. They may have had 2 Black parents with lots of white blood, or they may have had white blood from further back in their fam. THat's why it wasn't uncommon for ONE sibling to be able to PASS and the other one NOT to able to Pass, like the dude from AA LIves 2. These people were completely and TOTALLY rooted in the Black community.

Just because some one has a white parent doesn't automatically mean they will look white enough to pass, and just because someone may have 2 Black parents(because remember even VERY lightskinned white featured people with minimal Black blood were considered Black and were likely to be part of the Black community), doesn't mean that they won't look white enough to pass. THat's why this issue is so complex and not solved by easy or glib conclusions. There are any number of Black people from families where there is NO recent white relative, that have been able to pass in this country, OR that look as white or more white than some people who have 1 Black parent and 1 white parent.

Afriki · (#210 (**permalink**))

I'm sorry but Tiger Woods looks straight up Samoan, Fijiian, Polynesian, whatever....anything but black to me. I've just never looked at him and said that is a black man. I've always thought, that's an Asian man with some black in him.

I'm not uncomfortable with him claiming non-black heritages, seeing as how he looks (and essentially is) the part. I've never seen him be militant about it, but he talks about it so much because people ask about it so much. Don't you think that's the number one question he was asked when he first came out? People wouldn't ask unless there was a strong-enough presence of another race than black.

He probably coined the term "Caublinasion" because it became too much to relate that his father is of mixed African American (50 percent), Chinese (25 percent) and Native American (25 percent) ancestry, and my mother is mixed Thai (50 percent), Chinese (25 percent), and Dutch (25 percent) ancestry...which makes Woods one-quarter Chinese, one quarter Thai, one quarter African American, one-eighth Native American, and one-eighth Dutch
*the above info came from Wiki

Clearly, if you do the math, the man has more Asian in him than anything else. And only a quarter black.

BLACKCHAT · (#211 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmahogany777

You think Tiger looks more Black than Gates? How? I've seen and known plenty of Black men that look like Gates, some in my family. THere is nothing a-typical about the way he looks as BLack folks go. Tiger looks Asian to me. He looks like plenty of Black Amerasians who were the product of Black Asian mixes, like AMerie, Sonja Sohn from the Wire, etc. You see them a lot in the Black community in America so he's not unique(I grew up with plenty of them in the DC area, Black Fillipino mix, usually), but that's not a TYPICAL Black American look. If I passed Gates on the street, I wouldn't think twice about his racial background.

What I mean is Louis Gates is obviously black,and Tiger woods has more black features than him.

Quote:

First off, you should never confuse the way white people view/treat Biracial or even "fully Black' celebrities, with how they treat regular everyday Biracials and non Bi racial Blacks. White people will often bestow "honorary white" status on Blacks who have become very successful at something, whether they are bi racial or fully Black. White rock establishment people routinely talk about how they don't really see Jimi Hendrix as Black,(though he had 2 Black parents and came out of the Black Blues music scene, played with the Isley bros, etc). That's just something they do, so they can take credit for whatever the accomplishment is. That is not something that is extended to non famous, non rich, non accomplished bi racials,lol.

Why not? They created the one drop rule not blacks. I think being black is more than skintone or which catagorey they place you in. For the mixed race or biracials who want to think they can be black or forced to because of the one drop rule . I mean AA, and blacks in the UK from the caribbean or Africa have a history and culture/s. Some of the mixed race and biracial people who grew up in and learn that culture are the ones who are treated as black. Anybody else is seen as other or whatever.

Quote:

Even with Tiger's father not wanting him to identify with being Black and Tiger's proclamation of Caublasianess, and white folks supposedly not seeing him as BLack, his white golfing peer, and his white female friend commentator, still haven't been able to refrain from making comments about him that prove that they do indeed see him as Black, even as barely BLack as he is. I assume that you mean that TIger was beaten up and called monkey by white people, as a child. THat would seem to support my argument that even someone as barely Black as Tiger, is VIEWED AND TREATED as BLack, by most whites, at least until they become rich and famous, and even then, it will rear it's head now and then.

What I'm trying to say is culture is more important than which catagory whites place him in. He doesn't see himself as black. Most AA don't see him as AA. Whites see his pigment and place him with AAs. If Tiger was grew up like Halle Berry or UK singer Miss Dynamite, who both were raised by white mothers who took up black studies(in the case of ms dynamites mother) with a black experience. So hes cablinasian even if whites treat him as black.