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Victimhood…..do some Blacks overdo the race card!?
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Default Victimhood…..do some Blacks overdo the race card!? - 25-09-08, 10:12 PM

Victimhood…..do some Blacks overdo the race card!?

This thought was inspired by the THREE senior Asian police officers currently claiming race discrimination against the met police…..and yes it is controversial but I think the questionneeds to be asked… Now as far as I’m concerned these people are NOT black, so please don’t get this twisted from the start, in addition my gut feeling is that at least one possibly two of these Asian police race claims is utter bull do do… My feeling however aligning this point to some black people I have experienced is that some that I’ve met in my area of work, do sometimes reach for this as an excuse when they are for example pulled up about their work.. When in my own opinion clearly their work IS substandard and it is RIGHT that this is drawn to their attention…

I also recall a recent joint training session I had with the Met police connected with my line of work, where a Black constable kept making reference to racism, and his perception of his treatment by fellow white officers to the point of near paranoia. However the problem from where I stood, was two fold.. 1. He talked way too much most which was crap.. and 2. He also clearly had developmental gaps which became very apparent when we were tested on keys pass or fail tasks.. That were essentially within his key job description, but not within mine for example..

I recall that he actually failed the task, and then went ballistic and even when they relented and gave an opportunity to retake the task, he still performed badly even with me giving him really heavy hints and prompts.. From his point of view however he felt everything was against him, racism was everywhere and that he was completely the victim of the piece.. now He did have a point, but I also felt he strongly contributed to his own problems..

My thought in this context however is this. Has racism made us lean too much for the crutch of victimhood, is the so called race card overplayed when really sometimes we are at fault and in some cases our own worse enemies? Are Europeans correct when they assert that racism has become an industry all of its own and as such the fact that it is perceived that discrimination is overplayed has devalued the concept of ALL racism and discrimination claims real or not?

It is a fact that if you claim constructive dismissal from work, harassment or bullying for example the sums awarded is limited and fixed.. However if you claim discrimination or a breach under the Human Rights Act, there is no limit to the levels of compensation you can receive if you win…I wonder now if this fact more a driver for discrimination claims than the discrimination itself?


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Default 25-09-08, 11:23 PM

Not sure

It is always difficult to know the line between paranoia and fact


You ever heard of the Golden Rule. He who has the gold makes the rules!

He who asks is a fool for five minutes. He who never asks remains a fool for ever.
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Default 25-09-08, 11:38 PM

Can I venture into this subject as a European with an interest ?

I will not comment on the crutch of victimhood, it is not my place to answer that.

I believe there are certain people who play the race card because it is an easy option, the reason being it is so sensitive and almost unprovable that the benefit of the doubt is almost always given in favour of the complainer.

The question echos the Lennie Henry question "Is it cos Im black ?"


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Default 25-09-08, 11:48 PM

There is definitely something in the basic suggestion, though there's a lot of factors at work. A very interesting and necessary discussion. Will say more if time allows in the next day or so.

On the goings on at the top of the Met, have to say I've found Ghauffur's conduct of his business completely bizarre. I also think it is significant that it is Asian rather than African senior officers that seem to be lining up to sue the Met. Why that might be so is also a conversation for another time.


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Default 25-09-08, 11:58 PM

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Originally Posted by SoulRebel View Post
There is definitely something in the basic suggestion, though there's a lot of factors at work. A very interesting and necessary discussion. Will say more if time allows in the next day or so.

On the goings on at the top of the Met, have to say I've found Ghauffur's conduct of his business completely bizarre. I also think it is significant that it is Asian rather than African senior officers that seem to be lining up to sue the Met. Why that might be so is also a conversation for another time.


Glad you think so...its interesting that thus far no one has jumpedeither side of this debate and either agreed or disagreed and I also think this is part of the problem if there ias one, in that people black and white feel to scared to call it as it is...... Almost a case of the emperor's nude syndrome...

I think its hard considering all the so called 'race advisors' for example not to think that some people have gotten fat off the back of the 'race' industry and i'm not just talking black people...i'm talking all round here....

Soulrebel: i also think in relation to Ghauffur to name names..that he is taking the piss somewhat.... how can someone who is the THIRD highest ranking officer in the Met claim he has been overlooked.. overlooked for WHAT? The only other position he could realistically have is the top job, and as that other plonker Blair appears to be refusing to budge..I don't see what else he could reasonbly expect to be given... Plus isn't it funny that only NOw we hear him speak up on racism..i wonder where his voice was before his claims?


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Default 05-10-08, 09:58 PM

this is a delicate issue, its hard to define what constitutes playing the 'race card'. In my experience as a black man, it's almost expected that i play the 'race card' in certain situations.

To think that race plays no part in relationships/interactions would be naieve, however i will allow myself to become paranoid, it's a difficult balance to achieve. Even with the case of the asian officer, there is the overarching feeling fromt the newspapers that, 'Oh here we go again, another asian complaining because he couldn't do the job'.
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Victimhood or standing for what's right? You decide...
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Default Victimhood or standing for what's right? You decide... - 06-10-08, 11:52 AM

Case in point........think the BPA have made a wrong move here....

************************************************** ***************
Mayor may launch inquiry into racism in Met | Politics | The Guardian

Mayor may launch inquiry into racism in Met

• Johnson's plan said to be at advanced stage
• Black officers to urge recruitment boycott

Vikram Dodd
The Guardian Monday October 6 2008

Boris Johnson, the mayor of London, is considering launching an inquiry into claims of racism at the Metropolitan police following allegations by ethnic minority officers that Scotland Yard is plagued by discrimination, the Guardian has learned.

Members of the Metropolitan Black Police Association are so angry they will begin a recruitment boycott of their force today, urging ethnic minority applicants not to join it because it is racist. They are considering advertising in newspapers as part of their campaign.

Johnson has been considering an investigation into race and the Met and plans for an inquiry are sufficiently advanced for his senior aides to have sounded out a potential chair for the inquiry.

Today, Johnson will attend his first meeting as the chairman of the Metropolitan police authority. Any inquiry into race will be unwelcome news for Scotland Yard, which is reeling after Sir Ian Blair, its commissioner, was ousted by Johnson following a series of controversies.

Among the most prominent of these was a row which led to the suspension of the Met's two most senior ethnic minority officers. Tarique Ghaffur, assistant commissioner, was suspended after he began to sue the force for racism and denounced Blair as a racist. One of his main advisers, Commander Ali Dizaei, was suspended over alleged misconduct and both officers are under investigation.

Despite Blair's resignation, the Metropolitan Black Police Association's chiefs believe discrimination is institutionalised in Scotland Yard's leadership.

In a statement, the association said: "The Metropolitan Black Police Association will, as of today, totally boycott all recruitment drives initiated by the Metropolitan police service to attract black and ethnic minority recruits and police staff.

"We will actively discourage (through our extensive community network) potential applicants from applying to join the Metropolitan police."

It said the force was plagued by "a hostile atmosphere where racism is allowed to spread and those who challenge it are either suspended, told to shut up or subtly held back in relation to career development".

Alfred John, chairman of the association, said the boycott was needed despite Blair's departure. "We're not going to stop because Ian Blair has gone. It is about the institutional racism that takes place in the organisation," he said.

The race row began in the summer after it emerged that Ghaffur was considering suing the force for racial and religious discrimination.

He formally issued employment tribunal proceedings, then held a press conference where he professed his love of policing and denounced Blair. The force and the Metropolitan police authority say that press conference led to the suspension from duty of Ghaffur, who was joint third in charge of the Met and part of its inner cabinet. His key adviser was Dizaei, who chairs the national Black Police Association and who was suspended over separate misconduct allegations, which he denies.

In 2003 black officers began a boycott which was only ended after the Home Office pressured the Met's leadership to reach a deal. The BPA's leaders say the force has made too little progress since the 1999 Macpherson report found British policing was institutionally racist.

Tonight, a BBC Panorama programme focuses on the police's record on race and finds continuing problems.

Mike Fuller, of Kent police, Britain's only black chief constable, says ethnic minority officers often have to work twice as hard to compete with their white peers.

The programme also surveyed BPA members and found that 72% claim to have experienced racism at work, 60% felt their career had been hindered by their race and 61% said things had stayed the same or got worse in recent years. One officer said: "I've been treated worse than my parents in the 1960s. It's all very well hidden, no racist words - you're just never good enough for promotion."

The programme also reports that an investigation is under way after two Asian transport police sergeants arrived for work at their station in Stockwell, south London, and found a Ku Klux Klan emblem and other racist abuse scraped into their lockers. Only other officers and police staff could have had access to the locker room.


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Unhappy 06-10-08, 02:59 PM

Met Police racism probe 'is flawed' - Yahoo! News UK


one will need a bigger lie to cover the first one
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Default 06-10-08, 08:35 PM

If we recall the McPhearson Report "Institutional racism" and the shit we all see and at times are on the receiving end from the police I don't believe it's unreasonable to believe claims of racism from their own staff no matter how senior. The timing by Ghauffur is interesting, they haven't just gotten racist, they've been so for the all of his career. If black people are "overdoing" the race card, in the face of "white privilege" is this really a problem? If some folks have figured out how to exploit the bullshit window dressing "race relations legislation" then what of it?


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Default 06-10-08, 09:28 PM

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Originally Posted by newstyle View Post
If we recall the McPhearson Report "Institutional racism" and the shit we all see and at times are on the receiving end from the police I don't believe it's unreasonable to believe claims of racism from their own staff no matter how senior. The timing by Ghauffur is interesting, they haven't just gotten racist, they've been so for the all of his career. If black people are "overdoing" the race card, in the face of "white privilege" is this really a problem? If some folks have figured out how to exploit the bullshit window dressing "race relations legislation" then what of it?

newsstyle: Hmm maybe its me..but I do think it could be a problem.... Yes racism exists and I'm not telling people to get over it, far from it..BUT!!! Some people in my experience is using this as an excuse, rather than facing their own short comings or mistakes... I think some people are dishonest in using this tactic to wiggle out of mire of their own making..and this is what concerns me...

example i've seen people get stupid for being called for arriving late for work..and then complain its racism...my point to the person is YOU WERE LATE.. you can't be wrong and strong.....it don't matter how others are treated
late is late non!!!?


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Default Difficult to call - 06-10-08, 11:34 PM

The main problem I see in the U.K in particular is that Englishness essentially is very subtle and generally not often Direct, that is among white just as well when white meet black.

Being subtle a lot of Racism that is played out is never direct, therefore to counter it brings forth the Charge of "Having a Chip on your Shoulder". If as a Black Man or Woman you are generally not in the company of White, English (British) people then the manner in which they act would cause you to jump to the conculsion that it was Race rather than another element.

Generally race is factor about 30% of the time but which 30% ? This is what causes the confusion, for most of us.

There are a few of Us that use the Race card with is regretable, but compared to the everyday trials and tribulation the majority face on a Day to Day basis in many subtle ways Good luck to them.

A Classic example of everyday racism was working in Private Equity and having a fellow Consultant exclaim on recieving a Business Plan for funding say " Mr Babatunde" with a name like it cannot be that good a business, then nonchalently throw it aside. Of course this happens to C.V's everyday and many of us are unaware why despite our qualifications we were never called for an interview. Or even if you have a Scottish type surname, and were called forward for an intervew, wonder why you did not get passed 1st base.

So while it can be annoying if a fellow Black Man or Woman has called the Race card most time there is a 1/3 chance they were correct!


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