Brothers Hating on Obama

BrooklynGal · (#1 (**permalink**))

I was just having a conversation with my two Black male co-workers (there’s only three of us colored folk in my department), and was astounded by the complete open hatred they both have for Barack Obama.

We were discussing this ridiculous article about the Black ‘bourgeoisie’s’ response to the Obamas after which they started with their hate.

These two brothers at my job are very upwardly mobile and can be described as ‘bougie’. They are highly educated, both have high-yella Black women and for all intents and purposes, consider themselves to be yuppy, living a white life in Black skin. (By the way, these are the two brothers who were so mad about not being invited to the Lebanese co-worker’s wedding).

They are quite unlike the brothers I worked with at my old department who were yuppy but all voted for Obama and love him.

I don’t know where this extreme hatred for Obama springs from, but during our conversation, they kept going on and on about how ‘useless’ he is. I still don’t know what they mean when they say ‘useless’ because when I asked them to explain, they just hid behind a whole lot of obfuscation. And they seem to take the fact that he’s President very personal. I mean, they are just frowning like a mofo.

I’ve been seeing this in a number of Black men – since before the election, Black Afrocentric men or Black ‘bougie’ men who either call Obama a ‘coon’ a ‘tool’, ineffective, powerless, a robot or whatever.

It’s almost as though many of these brothers were ‘mad’ at him for running, for reaching for something they thought he didn’t or shouldn’t deserve. Or for whatever, who knows...?

Now I voted for Obama. Not because I thought he was gonna be some Black panacea and fix all my wounds, but basically because he’s Black and I wasn’t gonna vote for them damn crackers. I do not expect my life to change in leaps and bounds under Obama. I consider him to be a politician and not a ‘Black Leader’. I knew that all along, even when I early-voted for him and I am not ashamed to say I voted for the brother coz he’s Black and that’s it.

But I don’t get this extreme hatred a number of Black men have for him. It’s like they need to say the most hateful things about him, his manhood, his intelligence etc.

And I see this mostly from two sets of Black men: The hyper-Black Nationalist Afrocentric brother, or the Ultra-Edumecated Whitified Black Bourgie Yuppy.

Never from regular round-the-way brothers working a nine to five. At the Barbershop where I get my hair cut, from the brothers in the mailroom at my job, from just ‘regular’ cats, I don’t see this deep hatred for Obama and I wonder why?? In fact, most of these cats are quick to say they know ain’t nothing gonna change but they have photos of him, Michelle and his family all up and down the barbershop walls and mailroom.

All my male Caribbean and African friends have nothing but love for him and voted for him (though some have been rabid Republicans in the past). I don’t hear this extreme hatred from them. None of my Senegalese, Nigerian, Trini, Jamaican, Guyanese or Belizean male friends have brought out the vitriol like some of the AA brothers I know or work with.

And I’m trying to wrap my mind around why?

I mean, on the one hand, I can get the Afrocentric angle about him not ‘doing anything for Black people’. But who said that was gonna be his mandate?

Then on the bourgie angle, I just don’t get it. Sometimes I think it’s a backlash from Black men who are used to being the ‘shining example’ first-this first-that brother and ain’t too happy that Obama’s come along and upset the HNIC cart.

Or maybe I’m just blind and something deeper’s going on.

DtotheJ · (#2 (**permalink**))

Can't speak for the dudes...but your on the right path when you mention the resentment that educated dudes may feel.

insecurity

Dudes like to feel special....like they are doing it big.....

these same dudes feel awkward when they are around dudes who are doing it unquestionably top level status way....

whether it's seeing a brother pushing a Bentley....brother from harvard or other top flight highly selective school, or some other "level" that they they haven't reached themselves and probably won't.

biggest snobs I've ever met in my life are people who are doing good things but come from backgrounds where they think that what they are doing is bigger than it actually is.
my college friends and other people I know who are secure in who we are..don't get into the snob behavior....

Out here in Jersey.......the mayor of Newark got the same treatment.....he has presidential level credentials...he's modernizing the city and the area.....and his presence makes insecure brothers feel awkward....

If you look down on people because you have "more" than they have.....you will feel uncomfortable around people who have "much more" than you have.

*Also..Barack isn't in any of the "greek" ahahahah letter organizations..so they can't even claim him as a frat brother

Obama is well educated.....handsome...beautiful family....equally well educated wife...happy marriage......doesn't cheat on his wife.....is down to earth and NOT a snob...and happens to be president of the United States...

Hard to convince yourself that you are the alpha male when Barack is on tv... ahaaha

BrooklynGal · (#3 (**permalink**))

@D,

The other thing that is so shocking is how these Black men have to do their utmost to emasculate him.

And please note, this is not a pro-Obama post. This is about Black Male Behavior towards another Black male.

Why the emasculation? Why the need to call him a 'boy' or 'weak'?

It's almost as though the only way they can feel like 'men' is by putting down his manhood. And yet, he seems like a full straight up man to me and a whole lot of other people. We ain't heard nothing about him being shiftless or having a coupla kids on the outside, or being DL or just being no count or chasing white women or high-yella girls, or cheating on his wife. If anything, unlike so many brothers, he's quick to say that his Black wife is his 'rock', that he wouldn't be who or where he is today had it not been for her. He doesn't appear to have any of those very many mental illnesses so many brothers have.

It really is odd and troubling, not just with this Obama situation, but with a lot of Black men here in general, where they must 'bitch a brother down' in order to feel that they are superior to him.

**

This was my argument with the two brothers:

Basically, the Afrocentric cat or the Ultra Bourgie cat is weighed down by a sense of 'hypermasculinity'. The Afrocentric cat sees himself as a 'warrior' or 'leader' or 'elder' or whatever. Basically, he sees himself as the 'head' of all Black folks, the one whose gonna show us the way out the forest. Who appointed him to that position is a whole other question in itself.

Then on the other hand, the Ultra Bourgie brother's 'super-maleness' stems from his accelerated 'accomplishments' in the white world. In essence, he views his masculinity based on how similar he is to accomplished white men. He has the education, the white (or foreign) or high-yella wife, he lives around white folks and talks 'white'...

And then, along comes Obama.

For the Afrocentric cat to see the 'very white' Obama (regardless of the fact that he has and loves his Black wife) who doesn't try to gain the Afrocentric cat's favor or approval and isn't threatened by him and his 'warrior status', well this just astronomical and upsets the entire Black World Wagon. I mean, how dare he? And how dare Black people fall for Obama instead of the Afrocentric brother who is meant to be our 'natural' leader?

For the Bourgie Brother, well, here comes an even more bourgie brother Obama, who not only is half white and is loved and friends with super high-tech white folks, but dammit, he has a straight up Black wife and is 'Black' for all intents and purposes.

**

Our argument went round and round. Of course, the brothers said I'm just 'confused'...

Funny you mentioned Corey Booker mayor of NJ. I always liked him and couldn't get what the anger some of my people displayed against him was all about.

Anyway, I do get your point.

Weyland · (#4 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by DtotheJ

Can't speak for the dudes...but your on the right path when you mention the resentment that educated dudes may feel.

insecurity

Dudes like to feel special....like they are doing it big.....

these same dudes feel awkward when they are around dudes who are doing it unquestionably top level status way....

whether it's seeing a brother pushing a Bentley....brother from harvard or other top flight highly selective school, or some other "level" that they they haven't reached themselves and probably won't.

biggest snobs I've ever met in my life are people who are doing good things but come from backgrounds where they think that what they are doing is bigger than it actually is.
my college friends and other people I know who are secure in who we are..don't get into the snob behavior....

Out here in Jersey.......the mayor of Newark got the same treatment.....he has presidential level credentials...he's modernizing the city and the area.....and his presence makes insecure brothers feel awkward....

If you look down on people because you have "more" than they have.....you will feel uncomfortable around people who have "much more" than you have.

*Also..Barack isn't in any of the "greek" ahahahah letter organizations..so they can't even claim him as a frat brother

Obama is well educated.....handsome...beautiful family....equally well educated wife...happy marriage......doesn't cheat on his wife.....is down to earth and NOT a snob...and happens to be president of the United States...

Hard to convince yourself that you are the alpha male when Barack is on tv... ahaaha

lol can related to much of what you have said. many "black men" and i use that term loosely (men that is) feel just becuase another brother excels with ease and does not subscribe to the stereotypes of what a person should be. laughable to the extreme, little boys with little pathetic yuppie culture. You should go to some parts of Africa and you will find the same attitude as those New York brothers.

Men who are comfortable in their own skin don't ask little boy questions, and get their panties in a twist, they just do. That's the definition of manhood, those New York brothers fail to understand.

Prince Hakeem · (#5 (**permalink**))

Hence why my views on a lot of so called Afrocentrics have changed in recent times. These clowns kill me with their nonsense. I've said before that Barack Obama has never claimed to be a Pan Africanist and neither has his wife. But you had fools in the U.S.A and over here over zealously hating on the man and it's like, wait until the guy sits at his desk first before you come with the barrage of criticisms and disdain. They remind me of the same people berating the movie Pursuit of Happyness because the brotha only made it in the 'white man's system', yet these are the same ones who complain about black people being limited in the workplace. Make up your damn mind.

We don't need a black leader and to be honest, in this day and age I can't see one person ever taking the black nation worldwide by storm like the days of MLK and Malcolm X. Those were very different times and a lot has changed and diversified since. But everyone is either waiting for the second coming of Malcolm, or they think every black person in a high position has an obligation to be some kind of messiah. If the person claims, then fine, hold them to task. But don't think just because someone is highly melanated that he automatically has the power to break off all our shackles. It's like I mentioned on the ligali thread months ago, if Obama's presidency motivates black people (men in particular) to rise up and see the importance of hard work and dedication, then isn't that a good thing? My wife LOVES Michelle and every thing she stands for and sees her as just one model of inspiration.

I swear, some of these 'hotep' jokers need to let go of that pie in the sky mentality and see the wood for the trees.

DtotheJ · (#6 (**permalink**))

As far as the afrocentrics..

I'll cut them some slack..for 2 reasons..

1....it's natural for Black people to be wary of ANYBODY that whites seem to like so much..we do it with entertainers...athletes, and public figures...in fact we tend to turn our backs on those who have "crossed over"

2. fact that obama is president is something no person could have predicted....everybody is having a hard time wrapping their heads around it..it throws most of what you beleive off balance..so you have to readjust your thinking to make sense of it.

the real workers in the community will continue to do their work and legitimatley criticize the things obama does, doesn't do, or lies about

the "talkers" whose entire system of beliefs is predicated on convincing others that whites don't want.....won't allow.....are keeping you down..WITHOUT presenting ways to combat this... are gonna flip it and say he's an agent of the white man...etc.etc...and continue to list all the problems in the world without 1 solution or alternative.

BrooklynGal · (#7 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by DtotheJ

As far as the afrocentrics..

I'll cut them some slack..for 2 reasons..

1....it's natural for Black people to be wary of ANYBODY that whites seem to like so much..we do it with entertainers...athletes, and public figures...in fact we tend to turn our backs on those who have "crossed over"

2. fact that obama is president is something no person could have predicted....everybody is having a hard time wrapping their heads around it..it throws most of what you beleive off balance..so you have to readjust your thinking to make sense of it.

the real workers in the community will continue to do their work and legitimatley criticize the things obama does, doesn't do, or lies about

the "talkers" whose entire system of beliefs is predicated on convincing others that whites don't want.....won't allow.....are keeping you down..WITHOUT presenting ways to combat this... are gonna flip it and say he's an agent of the white man...etc.etc...and continue to list all the problems in the world without 1 solution or alternative.

On a level, I feel you.

On your first point about Black folks who've 'crossed over', that's because most of the Black folks who've done that in the past have sold 'us' out real quick when they got to the other side after building their reps and successes on 'promising' they were down with us or whatever. But what did Obama ever promise Black people? I admit ignorance on a lot of his agenda vis a vis Black folks because I didn't follow the whole pre-post election mania. Like I said, I just voted for him because he's Black and his wife looks and sounds like a sister that's got her head screwed on right. If she had been some siddidy jive chick, I wouldn't have voted for him. I took him and his family package, the folks he had around him etc into consideration when measuring his worthiness. But even though that was an influence and 'nice', I pretty much voted for him coz I wasn't voting for those crackers.

On your second point, I think the best thing about this Obama presidency, at least from an African American perspective, is that it forces some of us to break out of long held paradigms. It is unlike anything a number of Black folks ever imagined possible and personally, I'm just hoping it's gonna make a whole lot of folks start thinking again; start getting our minds out yonder because the past is gone and things gonna be something else once Obama's gone. So you best get prepared.

***

On another tip, this is where I'm stumped, especially with Afrocentrics. I mean, come on now... Did people really think America was gonna get a Khalid Muhammad into the White House? Many Black folks are/were aware that the only way a brother would ever get to be president is if he wasn't trying to rock the boat and was 'acceptable' to white folks, so what was so 'surprising' to Afrocentrics about Obama?

I'm not that stumped about the Bourgie Black folks... not really. Because siddidy Black folks have built their whole identity on being 'better' than the rest of us colored folks and this whole election of a man (and his wife) who were outside of their Martha's Vineyard mentality threw their world off its hinges.

**

But really, what concerns me, like I said above, is Black male behavior against a Black man who obviously, in no way shape or form, fits the stereotype of a 'dysfunctional' Black man.

You feel me?

DtotheJ · (#8 (**permalink**))

Obama doesn't have the HBCU stamp, doesn't have the Black frat stamp, doesn't have the Black minister stamp, doesn't have the martha's vineyard AME church old money black boule' society stamp,

Him doing what he does despite not being affiliated with any of these "prestige" holders of the black community....takes a lot of wind out of their sails....and makes them lose prestige.. seem less relevant or important

and he won without openly courting any of those "important groups'..

In that way.......the average dude can relate to both he and his wife better than the "elite" can....he was a kid from non wealthy background who worked his way to the top.

His unquestionably black wife by his side...as an equal partner....makes him appealing to those who respect that.....and less appealing to those who don't respect that.

Denzel Washington is one of the biggest stars in the world..and among Black women..perhaps THE biggest star.....he's handsome..can act....etc..and the fact that he's married to a an unquestionably Black (equally talented)woman( for years) makes him more appealing to those who respect that.

Buu · (#9 (**permalink**))

In a way you can't really blame these brothers or anyone else for their "emotion confusion" about obama's presidency, if you remember how his election campaign was run, just like every other election is run, where nothing is ever said about policy, the media basically painted him as a messiah, kept to the rhetoric about "hope" and "change", just essentially painted him as a blank slate for people to envision for themselves their own images of him, and marginlised issues and policies...

Bredder Tukoma · (#10 (**permalink**))

I really dont understand the premise of this thread. Why shouldnt certain black men with political standpoints dislike Obama? In case Im missing something here is he something to aspire to? All this psychoanalyis cracks me up. How about it being simply that he's an apparent black man who is fronting the biggest and most powerful group of white people and their system. Whether he has a black or Malaysian wife is immaterial really. Captain Sambo had a black wife and kids. And what?

So this 'yes we can!! "we are capable too"' mantra that gets chucked about is cringe material for myself and I suggest many others. "It shows the world that black people are not stupid/ that we too can have brain/ and have a black family and do real important stuff succesfully". Which might be OK and a source of inspiration for many people /but how about people who already know the above facts intriniscally through themselves and those around them. What then? Are we to be indifferent? Or see the role for what it is and what he chose to do. Which is the front man for one of the main countries in this world that currently and in very recent history have been involved in covert wars/ destabilisations/ assasinations/ arms suppliers and various dastardly deeds towards African countries. People supposed to forget that? Thats one reason for major dislike..

Reason 2: Using your 'own' to work against you. Yep dislike that shit. And before someone says that working in Sainsburys/ or for the local municipal authority is the same as being debreifed on covert CIA operations and supporting degregation and exploitaion of black people worldwide. No sorry its not the same.

Nope sorry certain black men cannot and do not support other black men fronting and making decisions in dubious white organisations. Neither are they amazed and proud when an black man becomes head of the UN /WTO/WHO/OR/CIA/FBI/Walmart or any other cracker organisation that serves to keep people under pressure. If it aint changing nothing why is there confusion when said front man is distrusted and disliked.

Obama can go to hell.

DtotheJ · (#11 (**permalink**))

If you don't work for a family business...and you got promoted to a higher position tomorrow you'd celebrate and maybe throw a parade for yourself...

if you were to be appointed the head of of the overall company or organization you currently work for......you'd feel remarkable sense of responsibility/accomplishment..and I'd bet money that people who know you and your family members would feel proud of you and FOR you...

that's true for 99.99% of the people on the planet...

Why is it not supposed to be true for Barack Obama?

============================================

For those who say that he's fronting the evil machine.....do you think that him being there as opposed to someone else makes things even 1% better.....or makes 1% more of positive net impact?

There are domestic and international issues that he'll have a direct hand in....which impact everybody living here....and I don't subscribe to the "it's all the same thing" theory....he's an infinitely better choice than what the alternative was.

Buu · (#12 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by DtotheJ

For those who say that he's fronting the evil machine.....do you think that him being there as opposed to someone else makes things even 1% better.....or makes 1% more of positive net impact?

What's your point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DtotheJ

There are domestic and international issues that he'll have a direct hand in....which impact everybody living here....and I don't subscribe to the "it's all the same thing" theory....he's an infinitely better choice than what the alternative was.

So let's talk about his appointments. All pro-Israeli hawks.

Let's look at this policies and actions. $1trillion bailout for the banks, blocked efforts to allow home owners breaks or file for bankruptcy.

DtotheJ · (#13 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buu

What's your point?

So let's talk about his appointments. All pro-Israeli hawks.

Let's look at this policies and actions. $1trillion bailout for the banks, blocked efforts to allow home owners breaks or file for bankruptcy.

and on the flip side...one could point to his appointee for attorney general, his credit card reform law.....and his other polices and actions.

I'm not a politico but for every decision you disagree with, or think is wrong..i'd bet there's one that you might agree with.

I'm certain mccain palin would be doing a better job.........according to ......hahahah some.

Kunjufu · (#14 (**permalink**))

I'm currently reading Obama's first book late I know but it is a very interesting insight into him and you can almost see the pathway that led him to where he is now....
What is interestying reading his thoughts is that the views that Brooklyngal observed seems to have been an ever present part of his life.... I also have to say that unfortunately that although Obama is the vehicle for this critque of ourselves... I think its more widespread and pervasive than just him..

I know I've personally experienced more than once the type of behaviours that you observe BG, and i know my friends who have done well, have also suffered a similar fate... You alway imgaine that other black folks would be 'happy' 'proud' that one of their own is making it and give some support... But I found the opposite to be true...

My wife who became a manager of place of work after serving under two joker WHITE managers imo, recieved through the post a letter basically threatening her and warning her not to pass her place... That really shocked me...that someone could actually sit down and type with malice that type of thing and post it to our HOME address BEFORE she actually started the job.. although it was anonymous it was definately from a 'Black' person...can you believe that!!!?

I think reflecting on this that it almost appears that some of us will put up with shitty, crappy WHITE managers or organisational heads.. but will not tolerate even a Black person in the position wether they are half decent or not... I think it goes back to slavery and people still unable to cope or reconcile people with black faces being in a position of power..

The behaviour towards Obama was almost identicle to those I've seem on a much smaller scale...The far Blacks doing their utmost to tear down the man, BEFORE he even got into office, and what was even more disturbing was that they weren't even giving the SAME or any type of pressure on McCain/Palin who were being racist to the core...

Then there was Jesse Jackson...and the now 'infamous' comment andthe 'who does he think he is'...which is interesting seeing as I don't remember any of them calling Bill Crosby a '******' for saying as much and worse on the same subject... I think some people honestly jumped on the Obama bandwagon because they NEVER thought that he'd be elected, and that this would reinforced their already formed views on racist,...It was intersting that when it became obvious that he could win..how these same people started to lay into him something fierce... In the end some of us will never ever reconcile with other who do 'better' than themselves..

DtotheJ · (#15 (**permalink**))

on another note....

my sis got me some obama shirts during the election.....when I wear them ow people look at me like I'm wearing an 8 ball jacket or some other played out fashion that's no longer in style....

you can't find anybody wearing obama gear anymore....F that....the shirt still fits...i'm rocking it..

BrooklynGal · (#16 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buu

What's your point?

So let's talk about his appointments. All pro-Israeli hawks.

Let's look at this policies and actions. $1trillion bailout for the banks, blocked efforts to allow home owners breaks or file for bankruptcy.

I was hoping we could all stay on topic but whatever.

To the points above,

I don't get this. Would it be better if they were anti-Israeli hawks? I mean, I don't get it.

Also, about allowing home owners breaks, what homeowners specifically?

My man and I own a home and have faithfully paid our mortgage for years now. A couple of months ago, when the economy was hitting the tank and we were worried about losing our jobs, we approached our lender to see if they might be willing to work with us on lowering our interest rate just in case. We figured since we'd been on it all along and hadn't ever gone in the red, we would be the prime candidates.

The answer? No.

They weren't trying and aren't trying to work with us on nothing, because we have proved that we can pay and have never defaulted.

And now we've seen the value of our house go down because of foreclosures in the neighborhood. Imagine that. How we feel.

I have friends who went and purchased huge homes in Jersey, Upstate or over in Rhode Island. People who make the same amount of money we do and definitely couldn't afford what they bought. Some lost their jobs, some saw their pay get decreased. Now they can't keep up with payments and are bitching about the fact that there's no reprieve for them. These people knew they couldn't afford those homes yet went ahead and bought them anyway. So they're supposed to get some slack or a break and not folks who've been paying on time and bought homes in places they could afford??

What about those folks who've seen debt on their homes outweigh the value (and they aren't defaulting) because of foreclosures?

.

BrooklynGal · (#17 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunjufu

I'm currently reading Obama's first book late I know but it is a very interesting insight into him and you can almost see the pathway that led him to where he is now....
What is interestying reading his thoughts is that the views that Brooklyngal observed seems to have been an ever present part of his life.... I also have to say that unfortunately that although Obama is the vehicle for this critque of ourselves... I think its more widespread and pervasive than just him..

I know I've personally experienced more than once the type of behaviours that you observe BG, and i know my friends who have done well, have also suffered a similar fate... You alway imgaine that other black folks would be 'happy' 'proud' that one of their own is making it and give some support... But I found the opposite to be true...

My wife who became a manager of place of work after serving under two joker WHITE managers imo, recieved through the post a letter basically threatening her and warning her not to pass her place... That really shocked me...that someone could actually sit down and type with malice that type of thing and post it to our HOME address BEFORE she actually started the job.. although it was anonymous it was definately from a 'Black' person...can you believe that!!!?

I think reflecting on this that it almost appears that some of us will put up with shitty, crappy WHITE managers or organisational heads.. but will not tolerate even a Black person in the position wether they are half decent or not... I think it goes back to slavery and people still unable to cope or reconcile people with black faces being in a position of power..

The behaviour towards Obama was almost identicle to those I've seem on a much smaller scale...The far Blacks doing their utmost to tear down the man, BEFORE he even got into office, and what was even more disturbing was that they weren't even giving the SAME or any type of pressure on McCain/Palin who were being racist to the core...

Thanks for bringing it back to topic Kunjufu.

What really amazes me is how PERSONAL Obama's successes/failures are to these brothers (and others)I was talking to. I mean, I know the three of us at work hated Bush, but it certainly wasn't personal and these two fools at my job weren't emailing me every negative story they could think of about Bush, the way they do with Obama.

And you are on to something with your comment about Black folks being comfortable taking all kinds of shit from white folks but flipping out over an Obama 'mistake'. This man never claimed to be Captain Save-A-Negro.

Now whether or not the majority of Black folks thought or believed he was gonna save their ass is a whole other issue. But from all the Black folks I know (and I know many), the consensus is the same: "nothing's gonna change on the street but it sure is nice seeing him and his family up there". Basically, it's that simple with all the folks I've talked to. Whether they are 'right' or 'wrong'... who knows?

Weyland · (#18 (**permalink**))

Kunjufu i know what you mean, especially about the part where other "blacks" would try and tear you down before they see you in a position of power, jealous low life scum, I’m sorry for your wife. I’ve seen this behaviour in the work place too many times, and I stay clear of these types of “black” people. Nothing good can come from self hating Negroes.

Kunjufu · (#19 (**permalink**))

I tell you I have become more convinced that its a throwback to the slavery mentality thing, the Obama election underscored it for me... Imagine people were ready to HAVE Palin/McCain in power BEFORE Obama WTF!!! Does anyone remember that infamous ad featuring a Mix race sell out breed saying as much.. or that Utterly wotless breed BEGGING, not asking, BEGGING McCain to take the fight to Obama... Did anyone notice any Jews BEGGING, any Irish BEGGING..but here we have a BLACK man practically in tears BEGGING a WHITE man to take down a BLACK man running for office... My god!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooklynGal

And you are on to something with your comment about Black folks being comfortable taking all kinds of shit from white folks but flipping out over an Obama 'mistake'. This man never claimed to be Captain Save-A-Negro.

Trini · (#20 (**permalink**))

This is an extremely interesting issue isn't it? And to be fair I don't think there is any one reason as to why these guys are hatin' on Obama in this way. I think that the answer will lie in a number of the factors that were mentioned.

My view on this issue of necessity comes from a U.K perspective but I travel a lot and am in the U.S. all of the time. I have noticed the depth of feeling against Obama from certain quarters., here and abroad. When questioned there is rarely a sensible rationale for their vitriol. The "allegation" I always find most amusing is the "he's nothing but a figurehead" argument. Let's get real. The position of President of the United States has not changed. In reality U.S presidents have always, at least to an extent, been figureheads, frontmen for the various (truly powerful) interests that they represent. That has always been the case. Bush, Reagan, Clinton were all equally powerless. So Obama is no differemt to all the others. That said, a lot depends upon how we are defining power. There are clearly different types of "power" and influence. For me the "power" of that office lies in all that it symobolises. It represents the U.S and all it stands for. And let's face it what it stands for by and large has never included African people. So the fact that an African is occupying that post is a HUGE deal.

It's such a huge deal that I didn't follow the Obama campaign very much at all as I was convinced that I would never see an African American president of the U.s. in my lifetime. . My more insightful mother followed almost every step of his campaign , right from the beginning, and can legititmately say that she thought he would win. i was under no such illusion. Almoot up the moment he was giving his acceptance speech I was convinced he would lose. Intelligent, articulate bother with a beautiful (clearly African) wife and family. I mean let's face it he had no hope. It sill amazes me , and will for a long time, that he was allowed to win.

So irrespective of his political rhectoric (again standard amongst politicans) I don't expect Obama to radically change the polictial landscape. It's not really within his behest. But he has made an enormous difference to a large body of people (including me) who believed that it would never happen in our lifetime. Regretabbly (and we could frankly go on forever about why this is endemic in our race) certain sectors of our society cannot bear to see others suceed. That's just the way it is. So I know where Kunjufu is coming from. I saw it time and time again when I was running my own succesful business and even more so now that I am a partner in a bigger firm and am seen to have made it (their definition of success not mine). More often than not when I meet brothers and sisters in the course of my work they are not happy for me . To be fair who is?? It can be lonely at their "top". But that's life. I'm sanguine about that now.

Reality for me? Was reading "The Times" the other day before work and seeing an enormously lengthy sycophantic article in the most reverential tones from that startingly conservative rag ,about how stunningly wonderful Michelle Obama is. I almost whooped with joy. Because you can bet that even a year ago this is not something that the times would have have imagined they woudl have to do. Paying homage to a wonderful African woman. It lifted my spirit and I am personally delighted that they are where they are.

T

Trini · (#21 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunjufu;1505996 [COLOR=darkslateblue

I tell you I have become more convinced that its a throwback to the slavery mentality thing,[/color]COLOR]

Hi Kunjufu. Long time. A quick p.s. from me, which is I think that you are quite right on this one.

The sad thing is that this negative and backward mentality is like an undiagnosed disease. Plenty of people in our community have it but don't even have the insight to recognise that they're sufferers. I see it ALL OF THE TIME. I ran my business for a long time and did ok. Regretabbly , and this is the God's truth, this was largely despite of and not because of my brothers and sisters. How sad is that? It was a real eye opener, for someone who is really supportive of her own, a rude awakening. People weren't just negative but actually tried openly to work against in the hope I would fail. I saw some real messed up crap.

To be fair though for most people (not just those in our community) when they see someone else doing well, or achieving what they would like to achieve but can't, it shines a very harsh light on their own perceived inadequacies. So rather than focusing on themselves and what they do nbest they fixate negatively on you and your sucess. That can be a bitter blow.

There is no, one size fits all, answer. For me , I live my life, focus on what is important, and don't let the bad minded people affect my life in any way. Life's too too short to focus on all of their debilitating negativity..,

T

Kunjufu · (#22 (**permalink**))

TRini..Hello and yes it has been too long bt far.....back on topic whilst i totally agree with you, I think one of the issues for me is that.. if some of us feel inadequate by people like Obama.. then Do nothing, but what i hate is that these are the people who go outta their way to bring people down with foolishness... Can't tek dem set of people..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trini

Hi Kunjufu. Long time. A quick p.s. from me, which is I think that you are quite right on this one.

To be fair though for most people (not just those in our community) when they see someone else doing well, or achieving what they would like to achieve but can't, it shines a very harsh light on their own perceived inadequacies. So rather than focusing on themselves and what they do nbest they fixate negatively on you and your sucess. That can be a bitter blow.

There is no, one size fits all, answer. For me , I live my life, focus on what is important, and don't let the bad minded people affect my life in any way. Life's too too short to focus on all of their debilitating negativity..,

T

jett Black · (#23 (**permalink**))

Mofo's need to stop hatin and just get on with their lives,yes, like Trini said could be that Obama just shines a spotlight on their own perceived inadequacies or what they believe the pecking order should be.
I can think of about 50 other Black men who deserve that venom before Obama does.

And it may well turn out that Obama is nothing more than window-dressing in the store front of democracy but the mere fact that this presidency stretches our children's imagination is enough for me.
I like Obama the human being,even though he has and will continue to make decisions(along with his advisors,who after all are the "real president")which I think are wrong.

By the way I have been on what I call Obama grey hair watch,my man is getting seriously snowy up there,wouldn't be surprised if he's back on the fags full time too.

Buu · (#24 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooklynGal

I was hoping we could all stay on topic but whatever.

To the points above,

I don't get this. Would it be better if they were anti-Israeli hawks? I mean, I don't get it.

Please don't push simplistic arguments into my mouth. statistics after statistics have show the overwhelming majority of the american people have consistantly been in favor of a two state solution. That is recognition of a Palestinian state along 1967 borders with Palestinian rights to self determination.

Again my point just in case you missed it:

That is the will of the american majority. That is a democracy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooklynGal

Also, about allowing home owners breaks, what homeowners specifically?

My man and I own a home and have faithfully paid our mortgage for years now. A couple of months ago, when the economy was hitting the tank and we were worried about losing our jobs, we approached our lender to see if they might be willing to work with us on lowering our interest rate just in case. We figured since we'd been on it all along and hadn't ever gone in the red, we would be the prime candidates.

The answer? No.

They weren't trying and aren't trying to work with us on nothing, because we have proved that we can pay and have never defaulted.

And now we've seen the value of our house go down because of foreclosures in the neighborhood. Imagine that. How we feel.

I have friends who went and purchased huge homes in Jersey, Upstate or over in Rhode Island. People who make the same amount of money we do and definitely couldn't afford what they bought. Some lost their jobs, some saw their pay get decreased. Now they can't keep up with payments and are bitching about the fact that there's no reprieve for them. These people knew they couldn't afford those homes yet went ahead and bought them anyway. So they're supposed to get some slack or a break and not folks who've been paying on time and bought homes in places they could afford??

What about those folks who've seen debt on their homes outweigh the value (and they aren't defaulting) because of foreclosures?

Obama PUBLICLY stated he was in FAVOR of allowing home owners to renegotiate their morgages and would allow changes in the laws that would put home owners in a position with lenders, that was stated PUBLICLY to the rabble. Then the ACTIONS that follow was that he blocks these same efforts, while the rabble remained uninformed on his "new position". Obama is a smart guy so he knows what must be said PUBLICLY, because that is what the rabble is OVERWHELMING in support of.

Again my point just in case you missed it:

That is the will of the american majority. That is a democracy.

You didn't mention the 1trillion bailout so I take it you already gather what was the postion of the majority of american people....

BrooklynGal · (#25 (**permalink**))

Buu,

I didn't mention the bailout because I was against it. I'm not pro-Obama or anti him. I don't swallow or disbelieve anything/everything he says hook line and sinker. It's not personal for me.

But didn't he just call for two states? Palestinian and Israeli. Now I do know that. It's why the Israelis are up in arms about his call for a cessation of construction in the occupied territories.

And you're right, he's smart. A real politician.

Back tomorrow. I gotta get dinner on the stove...........

Out.