I realy believe there are many black people who want to becalled 'Black Professionals' who actually wish they were not black, andI dont mean they want to be white they just dont want to be black.I have been to some serious underground places and have met some whatI can only call 'Real Black People' who have been to University have degrees and hold down some serious heavy weight jobs, these people are still part of our community and do notjudge or condem any other member regardless of what they do, yetI have been to varius different so called professional group meetingsand have left feeling these people are full of themselves and live only toactlike the white man as best as they can, looking down on those who prefer to be and act themselves. I do beleive the 'Black Professional' exists but I dont think they go around shouting it out, they just know who they are andwhat they are.

wow- yet another topic on this message board that doesn't really seem to address all the angles.

I can see what your saying, although I'm not sure why blacks aren't allowed to be conservative. The topic "pompous black professionals" doesn't address the fact that manyprofessinals (or at least- people that want to be) have a tendency to become conservative. BTW- being conservative does not mean 'being white" or "not being black".I think it's one of those laws ofhuman nature. I think ego comes with the territory too. It's definately not a proprietary black issue.

The topic should be renamed "why do professionals become condescending assholes" LOL.

A fool is a fool, arrogrance is arrogrance, being self centered is being self centered which can apply to anyone regardless of if they are black and a professional.

@Yt

I think you missed the point blkbuttkickI am not saying there isanything wrong with with black peopled who are qualified as professionals in their field of employ. What I am saying is that many black people are trying to be like or act like white people and are calling themselves black professionals as a result of their efforts. The problem is that they condem people who do not wish to act in the way oftheEnglish man, accusing them of being criminals sport-smileyjust because of the way they look blkrainbowfroor even in some cases because of the music they listen to or the places they go.



Oh by the wayI hava a professional qualification blkscholaryet dont call my self a 'black professional', Ialso condem all drug dealers (apart from doctors and chemist who trying to save lives) and criminals alike.

Those people that you call gutless are the very same people that are sending money back home to their families, these are the people that are trying todiscourage the youths from turning into criminals by showing them that it is not what material possesionsa person has thatwill makes themhappy (as believed by many of the 'black professional criminals') its whoand what theyare inside. I believe the important thing in life is to help others to be happy rather than trying to make your self happy - if you have a problem withunderstanding thispoint think about it from a love making point of view - for it is then that you will find real happiness.

Savage Om lol you hit the nail on the head niceone.gif

Not saying that some so called balck profs are pompus, But that probaly down to them believing their own hype. As nowadays having a professional academic qualification is nothing new if not fro the plain and simple fact that you can even buy the piece of paper if you really wanted to.

Those wid a holy than though attitiude are soon deflated with a few choice words if you really think about it lolbless

Isis

@ yt and Kareem

I am not upwardly mobile becauseI have never been downwardly anything, so if you are down and trying to get up i can only wish you all the best. Just to let you know, to me my parents and their parents before them and anyone elses parentswho havemanaged to bringupchildrento beproud of themselves in this society are the people who I see as 'Real Black People' niceone.gif

@YT

you are right I am srugling with this topic and will give it up thanks for the encouragement.
offtopic.gif

Fredblack wrote:

The problem which we are confusing, is the middle class as defined in popular discussion, is a particular type and created and promoted to meet the needs of white institutional power[or only allowed to evolve in a manner consistent with that need] eg for representations and political promotion of racial pluralsim and equal opportunties. Notice you hardly ever get more than a few if that of blacks in the same department, with any kind of authority even when there are quite a few. ...

Even in areas like social work, and those kind of face to face professions, which whites run from now, and there are quite a few black people in them. Notice, you never ever get black people controlling any part of the machinary. You may get one manager, but never several in the same line or chain, somehow defying statistical probability they will find one way or another to ensure white people are mediating power at every level, even in terms of the dyamics of a predominantly black team. Simple statistical logic all things being equal, would predict that there has to be a critical mass of black professionals in those types of organisations who must control important parts of the machinary. But they don't ,and it is not an accident or black bad luck.

They are not a class, in or for themselves, to use the classic Marxian term, but exist for the purpose of others. These people are only a class, given their different social position eg being a professional, nothing else, and their ability to differentiate themselves, largely in the eyes of white people, and ordinary black folk. They do not have class conciousness and think or see themselves as a special group with a particular social function and purpose.

Most of them are not even particularly bright, in terms of independent intelligence and thinking for themselves, because that is not a requirement, for why most of them have thier positons. Colin Powell was not brilliant or outstading at anything, neither was Condalessa Rice. Compliance and 'fitting the bill', is more important than technical brillance. The most radical and bright members of the black professional class are educators eg teachers, tutors academics, and members of the business class[Booker T, Garvery et al], which is no surprise because historically and traditionally they have always been, because they tend to be bright critical people, who seek truth and independence. We can include a couple of doctors and lawyers into that mix, but not many.

Most black middle class members, are not conservative Savage, because you need a backbone, principles and beliefs to defend the things that make you a conservative. I am a cultural conservative, from a conservative Caribbean family, but socialistic in economics. That means we defend marriage and family eg black family, black men and women and make no apologies[we are not from the offspring of the master who constituted the first indigenous Caribbean elite, we are AFrican blacks, not red brown or whatever]. My father married a bueatiful poor girl, but would never accept marrying out and sharing our sweat with foreigners[whites/Asians etc], defend and promote the belief in god in all things, and defend a body of civic and social values about justice and basic equality, and are unashamedly nationalist eg we run our own affairs not whites. We want their influcence out of our lives. We do not beg or bow. Have no problem with promoting wealth creation, both in serving one's family and community, and as a precondition for genuine social development; not to buy more foreign goods BMW' and other western foolishness to make foreigners rich at our collective expense. This materialism, is not part of the culture of the class I came from, but is part of the new consumerism of contemporary capitalism/globalism.

The middle class in this country [Savage] are not conservative in any way, save to conserve white dominance. As Franklin E Frazier said, in his masterpiece and classic 'Black Bourgeiosie', these people don't have the ambition, moral or human capacity to be a proper middle class. Hence they build nothing, here or abroad. No educational, social or political infrastructure of note.No cable television stations of note, no film industry of note, no serious commercial or banking infrastructure, of note, no foreign infrastrucutre of note, need I go on. So they are more dependent than any other middle class in this country. They want to be guest and children in other people's yards than being the boss in their own. They talk about belonging to this country and society, so why are they creeping around like children. Why can't they be as mediocre as the average white professional or be as outrageous or say and do the same things?


Brilliant observations/references Fredblack. I agree with almost everything you just posted, and have to retract my original argumentabout 'singling out black professionals as an incorrect anchor for this discussion'. I still stand by my guns about the professionals becoming conservative/condescending though, because I keep having to perform the unpleasant task of deflating the egos of a couple of close family members- and it doesn't have anything to do with the white man LOL.

@ Fred Black

No disrespect taken, I thank you for your response. I can understand what your saying, as I have been to many of those so called professional meetings and could not understand why I felt out of place, howeverafterreading your post Ifeel I have more of an understanding. I have a family business which I run along side my wife, brother and his wife we hopeour children will join us or at least be able toreap the bennefit from the fruits of our labour.

I think the main reason I was attending these meetings was to meet people who wanted to help othermembers of our communitywho may notbe as fortunate as we are have been so far in life, with a view to offering some sort of assistance or support, not critisism or condemnationbut what i found was people whoseemed to be full of themselves.blksnore

First let me say it is really good to enter a Blacknet once more and ready some very well thought out threads.

It seems on the so called Black Middle Class threads - that all black people are concerned about is music and sex.

Fredblack: Post was particulary Good.

"To look down or illtreat someone from lower status than yourself, was a very serious thing and a sign of ill-breeding, but also ungodly, and to do damage to family reputation"

is a particular case in point. All to often in such Meeting or Networking environments things seem like a Niche\Cliche. In deed not very welcoming places at all.

That said. Dillinger started out making repeative mistake of not differeniating between Race & Class. The two are separate and yet cross over.

So errrr

Tell me

JUST WHAT EXACTLY IS A BLACK PROFESSIONAL ANYWAY??

Some woman describedherself that way and had me thinking,what didshe mean?



What jobs count? what are the criteria? Is it salary or expertise? which fields?