I know their is white supremacy and there are a minority of whites that want to destroy the black race. but there are also those ones that really love justice and will do their uppermost to see it achieved. I find this mostly with some white woman, when some of them have black babies this may be the first time they come across racism, and they fight against it.

Also when you see those anti-racist marches they are usually all white people marching.

The blacks are usually at home chilling eating or watching TV. What do you think?

Authordox: Without doubt, Europeans can and must play a part in this process, I believe Malcolm spoke about this when he left The NOI... So the question is what part can they play and in what context..

Like Malcolm I believe that what ever partbthey play, it must be i support of our lead and with specific conditions in play..

hay Kunjufu how you doing, nice to hear from you.banana.gif

Thanks for your reply, and bringing up the great malcolm X arguably our finest leader.

The reason i started this thread was because i went to a meeting on the way forward for promoting a positive side of education to black youth in schools.

There were many positive things said but one thing that really struck me was a white woman who said that the most energetic white people who work for the upliftment of African people are those that are in close contact with these people. Either by friendship or by an intimate relationship.

This really struck me as there are so many whites that cannot empathise with the struggle of Africian people, they have no idea or understanding about the struggle we go through on a daily basis, but on the other hand their are a few that do.

And they could be very useful in speaking in certain forums that we may be excluded from.

I agree, a lot of white people experience certain things too. I think some of us (black folk) could try a bit harder though, as you stated when there are rallies etc nuff of us are at home!!

That is one thing i like about Americans, especialy places like LA. They will protest and fight when they dont like something, where we just sit at home and moan about it. Look at all the black people KILLED in police custody in UK and in LA a man just got beaten up and they went MAD!! We only get involved if it is OUR family member / friend. (although i am not saying we should go loot the shops!!!!)

I think we need to have a vision of black people as a team instead of looking out for ourselves, and i am sure any help offered by people of other races (who are genuine)is a bonus.

Peace~

God, u guyz scare me.. really.. u believe in whitefolks so much that you believe they can help u with everthing... !!... black folks from UK are punks... you realy are... whatz the matter with u folks... cannt u do things without a whiteman... whiteman doesnt require u for doing his own business..



Homer

@ Authordox
I think your question is a good one and provides a valid basis for debate and as such is definitely worth considering. However, I do so wish you hadn't gone there with:

"Also when you see those anti-racist marches they are usually all white people marching."
and
"The blacks are usually at home chilling eating or watching TV. What do you think?"
[/quote]

Why oh why did you have to put that slant of "well, whites seem to be doing more for us than we are doing for ourselves" to what is otherwise a very valid topic for discussion?

Yeah it may be quite true that the majority of people you see on 'anti-race' marches are white but how does that automatically lead to the assumption that 'blacks are at home chilling, eating or watching TV? How do you know that?

Have you ever given consideration to why it is the case that mainly whites are on these marches before making such a lazy and ill-considered throw away comment?

Did it ever occur to you that the groups that organise these things are ones whose ground swell of support and links, do not lie in the black community for a variety of political and social factors that are more complex than your simple reasoning of 'blacks can't be bothered'?

Have you ever analysed the real 'impact' such marches have had on alleviating the effects of racism on the day to day lives of blacks in this country?

Have you looked into the things that ‘black organised’ groups and black individuals (ordinary folk like you and me) are doing to combat the problems of racism?

I could go on, but the point I am trying to make is that before falling into this 'all-too-easy-to-adopt' mindset that leads to ‘black on black condemnation’ one needs to look more deeply into the ‘reality’ of a situation before making one’s conclusions.

Don’t get me wrong, I believe there are many blacks out there who complain bitterly about ‘their lot’ but are, for the want of a better word, ‘bone idle’ when it comes to doing anything about it. People whose thoughts stretch little further than ‘when to switch over from Eastenders to Coronation Street’. However, even with this being the case it does not excuse ‘lazy’ thinking on the part of those who feel they ‘know where it’s at’ when it comes to assessing the motivation of the average black person.

Respect

As to the question of whites helping blacks. Personally, when it comes to the fight against injustice, racism and unfair treatment I have no problem with fighting alongside anyone who share my aims and ambition for combating these and an array of other social evils. However, I will admit to being cautious before taking it on face value that someone who does not 'know' of my experience, or who is not a victim of the condition themselves, will be as committed and dedicated to that fight as I am. Especially when the consequences of 'righting some of the wrongs' could well affect the social, economic and other privileges/advantages that person enjoys by mere fact of being part of a group that is able to benefit from my 'disadvantage' position.

This is not to say that I can't trust whites when it comes to fighting against some of the ills that plague the black race, but I am not one who is quick to jump for joy at the thought that 'they are on my side' without some real heavy supportive evidence.

I have seen, on many occasions, where 'white support' for 'black causes' have proven to be no more than rhetoric and hollow gestures owing to the fact that 'self-interest' has proven to be a stronger motivator than 'social justice'. History has also shown me that greed, the lust for power, and desire to 'accumulate!' 'accumulate!' has been much stronger in the culture of white people than in the culture of people of my race. So for me. CAUTION will always be the operative word when dealing with these people.

Finally, the mere fact that some are in 'intimate' or close relationships with black people is not enough evidence of their allegiance for me. But then that opens up a whole different debate that has already plaqued these boards enough for my liking.

Respect

There's no doubt they can help - they pull the strings.

However I think whites would have to care about blacks to want to help and as Backatya states we'd need to know the reasons behind the caring attitude are genuine.

It concerns me that many now only take a stance because they are involved with black partners or have mixed-race children - where was the concern before? That's what I mean about not caring unless there is direct impact on their lives.

They have a part to play,but I agree with Kunjufu, we must lead.

The only way a group of people (blacks) or an individual will appreciate and duplicte something is to start from square one and go from there. In the case of "blacks" moving forward I think we are talking economically, thats the area we lag behind. Whites are not going to "give" blacks anything, but blacks can get what they want. No white person can stop you from reading (the key to forward movement) and doing your research and coming up with a plan. Thats the only way this forward movement is going to happen. Most young Blacks, especially here in America chase after these goals:

1. a rapper
2. a singer
3. a record label
4. a movie star
5. a football player
6. a basketball player

Things that come from the creative mind. Thats ok, but the problem is there is no plan to teach the young, and every story of those who made it is different so this is not duplicatable. Whites on the otherhand see their rolemodels and then do this:

1. Real estate
2. Computer industry
3. IT industry
4. Franchises
5. Work a regular job but have a 10-20 year plan to become millionaires in the stock market
6. Become lawyers
7. Become doctors
8. Learn a trade like painting, plumbing, carpentry, then do it well for years and start a company hiring those in their industy as workers
9. Open banks
10. Stock broker
etc.............

Blacks seem to chase after the glory and fame, the "bling bling" or what have you. Its a case of wanting the money "too big and too soon". Whites look farther than that, ask 10 blacks how many were left and inheritance over 100k and what will the reply be? Problably none. Whites invest, get life insurance, etc... So many of these plan whites you see are woth millions, but still work.
Blacks dont need whites to help them per-se, you cannot translate your way of thinking to anyone else, especially if the person you are trying to teach wants a handout.
We have to get these kids early and let them know there is a big world out there, and they dont have to be what society wants them to be.

In business we learned about maslows heirarchy or needs, (and whites do this every day). There are 4 steps:

1. Identify what you want to do then do it
2. Continue to do it over time
3. Master your trade
4. Then turn around and teach

Aperson on level 4 is very valuable, and thats where the real money is. In real estate Carlton Sheets ( a real estate guru) is a great example of this. He did real estate investing, mastered it, now makes hundreds of millions teaching it. How many rappers, or reacord label execs do this?
Observation is the key, just look at how they make money, it is not rocket science.


Solomon

@iyallahniceone.gif



@homer calm down.................take a chill pill.............. I'm not saying that we need white people to lead us. But you have to understand there are many white people working to uplift africian people.

you see things in life are not black and white, every black person is good, every white person is evil. Is this how it is in real lifeblknoway

I just feel sometimes we get into victim mode where we feel that everyone white is against us when that is not the case.



@backatya you made a valid point, not all blacks are at home chilling.

But bro you have to admit that we are very complacant as a people we let a lot of things happen and we just sit around and complain.

Also i am all for the upliftment of Africian people but sometimes we need to be critical of ourselves so that we can move forward.

We are brillant at making excuses but terrible at facing certain facts. When it comes to demonstrations we are always in small numbers why is this?

There are some terrible wicked white people but there are those who work for the good of people. Look at all of those who do charity work in poor countries.

You may say yeh but they have motive, but nothing is stopping blacks going out there and doing the same work.

I agree that you have to be careful about the ones you work with because some are shady.

But please remember there are many blacks that are just as shady.

who pulled the trigger that killed Malcolm X, okay we know FBI were involved but it was a black man that pulled the trigger.

there are good in all races and evil in all races.blktype

There may be some people that are the same colour as you but have nothing in common with you, when you tell them about the struggle they just look at you and laugh and say 'i'm fine'

then there are some people that from a different race but are exacatly on your wave length.
blktrainers

@ Homer

The question was not if we NEED them, it was can they help. I believe they can help as well, it is not a case of me thinking we cant do it. As i always say 'you dont have to be anti white to be pro black'.

A lot of people are quick to say mixed race people are black, but if their white parent wanted to help with the cause because of what they witness their child go through every day, are you going to say 'NO YOU CANT HELP YOU'RE WHITE'??? They may not go through it, but it does not mean that they dont understand / care / or want to help make a difference.

@authordox - Thanks



Peace~

NO, Homer is right-on-the-money. But if Kunjufu feels they can and they must… what’s stopping them, since unless I’m mistaken, they’re currently top dog?