I think you need to know more about what is going on before you make the assumption that BLACK people do not think before opening a business.

Even with the soundest business plan and the savviest entrepeneurial mind, businesses do fail. And anyone who has any comprehension ofeconomic forcesknow that most businesses WILL fail within the first 3 years and in fact, most economies rely heavily on that being the case.

Business failureisnot a function of race. (as your post implied) - statistically, there are more white owned businesses that fail than black owned; furthermore, the losses of white-owned businesses are usually much greater than their black counterparts.Ask Donald Trump and themillions that he owed his creditors when his business failed and he filed for bankrupcy.

Maybe he didn't think before opening his business either....

@Fernando

In business as in all things in life there is a time for thought and then a time for action.

Noone can predict just by thought how a particular venture will turn out. You have to do it to find out. No matter how much research you do about the area you;re setting up in, still dont mean it will be a success in the long run.

I believe there is no such thing as failure. All experiences show us how better to do things next time. After all you have to start at kindergarten to end up in university.

We all got to support the Black businessman/woman whenever we can, and thats the best we can do niceone.gif

Fernando when I was reading your postI was nodding in agreement. But to be fair, most people set up businesses they are interested in or can do.

Personally I don't understand why some people think we need another hairdressing salon, just lookingaround tells you that there it is such a saturated field!

At the end of the day it us as consumers who would be laughing, because they should keep their prices down to please us!!!

@fernando

...on behalf of the many of us who go out on a limb and risk everything to open a bussiness; work long hoursto attain the dreamand ask for the support of our community (and not their criticism) as they walk on by,we graciously accept your apology!

Happiness its not that we don't want to support our people's businesses, I for one go out of my way to visit them, but using hairdressers as examples:

a) There are only so many times a person needs their hair doing!

b) Have we go to visit ALL of them to support them - if there is just too many of them what are we to do!!?

So in a way Fernando's right, sometimes a little forethought is needed.

Blackfolks did not create capitolism, white folks did. Their business model is very smart and agressive. They do research on the area, need in that area, financials, etc... This plan can be learned and duplicated. Black folks need to just do it. Maby they did'nt think area or need for their products mattered, that to be sucessful all they had to do is open it up. But bleeding pockets will teach any businessperson to do reasearch, get help.



Solomon

@ Athaba - not saying that you should support ALL black businesses - just the good ones. They deserve it.

...anyway, my issue was just what I saw as Fernando'sunfair assessment of black businesses. It is a known fact that like-business will always congregate around the same areas - especially if there is a strong anchor amongst them;all the lesser business will then feed off the spillage. So it doesn't surprise me that there are barber shops and beauty shops on the same street. That is actually good business sense.

But if you see a street of struggling like-business maybe:

1) the demographics in the area has changed.

2) maybe the patrons of those business have themselves suffered financial changes (job loss, salary reductions etc...)

3) maybe the vendors of those businesses have increased the cost of doing business etc....

My point is that you need to know more about what's going on and not just assume that black people dont think before opening a business, which was what Fernando did andthat was my only issue.

@All. Very interesting topic all round. But seems to me Happiness has answered the key points from a baisis of fact. Many of the things like in most areas people apply with the broad brush against our people are not actually true empirically. I can say that with a degree of certainty in the areas of organisation, leadership including business organisations as it concerns our people compared to other ethnic/racial communities.

As Happiness suggest a significant percentage of All busineses fail, we could differ on the actual percentages, but that would be purely academic and whether she was talking about the US or here. But that would be minor to the truth stated.

Abatha's point is a good one in terms how people see and understand business, which is crucial, as she is the customer. But as Happiness said, what was described as a legitimate business strategy, not to say there are not others, but it is shaped by many considerations eg acess/location, costs, but also viable in term of competition and providing alternatives to the customer.

It is a shame that there are some important racial differences or factors which come into play when seriously understanding black businesses, but regretably these are not the things people tend ot lock onto. Such as degrees of capitalisation, sources of capital, access to mulitiple sources of capital and all these things, levels of leverage etc...

There are some outstanding black business leaders trust me in all kinds of areas all over the world. By the way the world of business is not, or has ever been a level playing feild and I know that running several business particularly my own. Inferior white companies can get access to lucractive contracts which keeps them prosperous, or alive when high performing black ones cannot or struggle, because the former are part of a stable and established essentially white network.

So perceptions can be very misleading, particularly against a background which is essentially about reinforcing black negativity and inferiority.

@Happiness. My sister you are a plentiful woman in multiple ways. You are a woman of action and business as well....Hmmmm a case of the ice berg and its peak being deceptive to its true size. Keep up the good practical work of leading by example my sister.

As for risk. If my business goes belly up I will still have a couple of yams left and a wooden hut in my home country. But very hard work all the same.

Keep up the good work.

Excellent discussion topic of very practical import...

Fredniceone.gif

the world is full of people who don't think

there are many people who set up in businesses that fail

likewise there are many people who set up in business who succeed

the difference between success or failure in business involves more than planning it includes seizing opportunity, having you're finger on the pulse and probably the two main factors are luck and risk

many people who start businesses fail the 1st, 2nd or even 3rd time

an empty shop is not necessary and indication of failure or success in a business, the shop may just be a dimension of an otherwise thriving concern

for instance alot of Africans who set up clothes shops often operate as seamstresses and tailors and the bulk of their income will come from this aspect of their trade

I know a couple from the Caribbean who just retired after many long years running a catering business their business thrive on doing food for functions such as weddings the shop was a sideline with a small and regular clientele

look beyond the superficial, analyse and THINK a bit more before passing judgement

niceone.gif

Thanks Happiness for enlightening me.I supopose we as customers can only comment on what we see.



@ Fredblack, I just saw that we are saying the same thing! - thanks anyway.

@ Fernando

Whilst the points you raise about the 'businesses you observed' has relevance for general discussion and may in fact be true of those businesses themselves, I think the premise on which you arrived at the conclusionwhich formed the opening question to your thread is somewhat flawed.

You say you pass this one shop in Leytonstone high road and everytime you pass it there is this 'lone guy starring at the door'? This led you to wonder about his business plan and his market testing? Then you go on to say the same applied to barber shops and haridressers. Well when reading your post it made me wonder about YOUR market research and business analysis of said businesses. From your visual observation of this lone guy starring at the door you conclude that there must be some flaw in his, and the other businesses you made the same casual observation of, business planning.

Now you may be quite right (and I can tell you from experience that many business fail for the very reasons you made reference to), however there are severe weaknesses in the way you arrive at your conclusions. Consideration of the following points will highlight what I mean:

1. How long did you observe the business(es) at the time you pass them? Did you watch them for any period of time or just noted the lack of clientele at the particular moment you passed?......Could it not be that you just happen to walk by during one of the times that trade was slack (i.e time of day effect)

2. Did you observe them more than once over a period of time and witness this same phenomenon each time? Or was it at different times of the day over a period of time? If you observed them at the same time of day on each observation (assuming you came to your conclusion after several observations) you may be just witnessing the slack period I referred to above.

3. How do you know this business is not maybe one of several they have? Maybe they have a chain of such outlets and this one is their latest venture in a new area to see if they can obtain the same success theyenjoy in other areas where they have shops. It takes time for businesses to build up trade because they are not known enough when they first start.

4. How do you know (say, in the case of the cloths shop in particular) that the majority of their trade is not through shop sales to 'passing trade', but through mail order and other direct sale to established clientile that purchase in large quantities. They could well havea few big buyers and onlylook on the passing trade as small change.

5. If you have noticed this phenomenon with the SAME shop over a long period of time and the shop is STILL there, open for business, maybe that means that trade is not all that bad. Don't you think if day in day out it was just a lone guy starring at the door, and no customers, that the business would not be there for too long?

6. How do you know these businesses are black owned/run? Just because you see black faces behind the counter of establishments catering mainly to black customers does not mean their are black owned. Surely you are aware that there are many 'black' products with black faces on them that have no link to black whatsoever in their ownership or production.

7. Have your observations been limited to barber shops and hairdressers? Do you know anything about how other black owned businesses perform (travel agents, recruitment agencies, accounting practices, surveryors and solicitors etc. etc.)

All I am saying at the endthe day is that one cannot 'simply assume' from limited observation and knowledge about a thing without looking further into it. You came herepainting a particular picture ('lone guy starring at door') to put forward the notion ofpoor business planning on the part of someblack people in business and seemed not to have analysed in any depth the cases that formed the basis of your assesment and conclusion.That is dangerous and misleading for it is difficult to debate something meaningfully or arrive at reasonable conclusion to problems if there has not been a proper assessment of the 'problem' to start with.

Like I said, the points you raise may well be valid (in fact I can siteexamples where they are valid), butthebasis of your assessment leaves a lot to be desired.

Respect