It is unrealistic to expect black people to unite in Britain or internationally. Discuss.

Is it 2004 and groups unite around religion, politics, nationality...Can they unite successfully based on their colour, without a commonly perceived external threat?

What do you asblack people think about the potential for black "unity". Is it possible?Is it desirable?If you think it is desirable, what kind of "unity"? What wouldit be in aid of? What goals would you like to see realised?

Please note: I have put up a controversial point of debate that DOES NOT reflect my views on this topic.

What do you mean by unite?

From what I see this is more of a Caribbean/African American than an African issue. I could be wrong. Caribbean’s and Africans are roughly 50-50 in terms of representation in this country, but Caribbean’s have been over represented in most issues. There's nothing to really hold us together.

Unite for what?

I know what I wanna do with my life, but it seems that most black people here (2nd/3rd generation) don't even know why they were born here, what there grandparents (or parents) wanted for them.

I think that individual Nationalities know what they're doing. I don't see as many black people around where I live, but I've noticed that (generalised statement) Africans seem to be pushing for themselves. Nigerians seem like progressive people, all the ones that I’ve spoken to really seem to have forward momentum.

One of my brother's went to a club some time last week, because he was invited by some one of his 'friends'. He felt like he was being used. He told me that he felt that he wasn't like some of the other guys that he used to hang with, that he saw recently. Most of them are kinda limited, music, music, music. That's all they think about, talk about. At one point he was gonna follow there lead into music. They ain't ever gonna touch black girls, but you ain't really missing out. How can you have unity, when a fair number of the guys seem to think of the girls from there own group as foreign?

Like me they’re from a Caribbean background. But they never really had a different home life to the traditional English upbringing. There’s a little variation in speech, and some different food, a little bit of music, few paintings around, but nothing drastically different. Kind of like a watered down version of the Caribbean. Like alot of Caribbean’s they may of gone through an identity crisis (I did, it wasn't very nice). There's no difference between you and the rest of you friends, but you know your black, and your treated differently, because people assume you come from a different backgroud.

Seems like they take on the ready made personality given by the media.

Popular black culture (bling and music) given as our real heritage. As we've seen though, it doesn't have enough depth and bredth to encompass all the differen't aspects of society (religion, education, etc)

Incidently I think that African Americans have the same problem. From what I see, they are not that differen't from white Americans in culture, but the skin........
All those hand locks ('gi me some dap') clothing, seems like there trying to find an identity. Like usual I've simplified, but I don't have time to elabourate.

Uniting for what? Like I said there are no real black institutions, no ties with home countries. No culture to define you.

Why would you want to sell black people there own food?

Why do you want to organise us into professional clubs?

What's the point of congregating together? Talk about what?

All the serious fighting for equality is (largely) done. You can have a relatively decent life without trying, so there's nothing for most blacks to push for. So all we in the rich west selfishly talk about is IR dating, skin tone etc.

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Why do I think that some of those topics are selfish?

The fact of the matter is that Britain and America are rich. I don't like some aspects of living here, but my parents worked hard, and I live pretty well. If you've been watching the news, listening to popular opinion, one of the big issues is immigration. In the foreseeable future there isn't going to be another big African/Carribean migration to rich countries, so we can live in comfort, and in return we're supposed to completely forget about the plight of African's world wide. The thing is, is that even maybe 25yrs ago, we were getting hassled like something else. With the rise of the far right/BNP this kind of stuff is starting to stir again.

Seems like this generation is the lost generation.

Me personally, I’d like to work with anyone who wants to elevate blacks status world wide. I don't think that Britain’s the center of the world (it definantly isn't the centre of the black world), and I don't know if I’ll be living here forever.

A disproportionate number of black people seem to be too concerned with running, skipping and jumping for England, draping themselves in the union jack, playing music, and talking about white girls.

One of my brothers is going to university this year. He's thinking about changing the place he's going to because there isn't going to be a large black population where he's been accepted. Alot of us want some roots and identity. some of us feel lonely (me included).

Sorry if i didn't answer the question properly.....I just wanted to put some ideas down.

Ayousha you kind of make me wonder why you want to talk about Islamaphobia so much? Got our own thing to deal with. LOL we got our own thing to deal with, but lets talk about others.......

@ Ayousha - is this black unity in the UK or worldwide?

@Ayousha

:-)

Big topic/great topic/about time it was discussedtopic coz it's the most important topic.

Black Unity - Wow?

I believe that only serious black men can achieve it - by a combination of kick ass intelligence and brute force. :-)

You see when black men start reminding people whose done most of the ass kickin that's led to the opportunities they know now enjoy - it will firstly raise the self esteem of all black men and simultaneously provide a real model not role model for the young ones to follow and surpass.

You see boys, it wasn't the scholars or educated blacks as they like to call themselves or the so-called black leaders that havegotus this far -It was ordinary bad boys like you and me.

Yeh we're the were the ones that get harrassed by the police,banged up, chucked out of school, kept out of legitimate employment and told how bad we are by every fool who thinks they've made it.

So of course it stands to reason that we are most likely to hit back first - coz we aint got no crossover appeal. Aint nuthin in this shit for us that's worth preserving. So unlike the scholars (who no one listens to anyway because no ones got a clue what their on abouthalf the time) we don't use useless bigs to make our points we use our fists.

Coz at the end of the day that's how works isn't it? Isn't kickin asswith a view to gettin paid happenin in Iraq right now? - only thing is some of those Iraqi brothers are kickin ass back. Guess they learnt how it works too.

But I'm sure they could get all that American trailer and ghetto trash out of their country sooner if they weren'tweakened by that mosttroublesome family member - the Uncle Tom!

S/He comes all guises S/he is everywhere - s/he can be rich, poor, male, female, best friend, preacher, cell mate or cellout mate, wherever you are he'll be right there telling you how wrong you are to want to unite with your own kind andfree yourselffrom oppression.

You sees/he's got crossover appeal - remember that?They get the job you didn't get, the education you didn't get, they get paid the money you have tomake other ways or work ten times as hardin some shitty low status job for.

That's why they can come telling you how no good you are. But when you know the facts and tell them about themselves they can't say jack coz they know they're gonna get jacked up.

When a was young bwoy amongst hundreds of ther young brothers fighting in Brixton and gettin our heads buss' by the Police, I didn't see any poofs muslims, career women, scholars, educated middle class blacks, feminists, babymothers or any other such fools who now think they are better than me -

Until of course after the fighting and the benefits were being handed out - I got up early that morning to collect mine but the que was so long I had to drop out - because all of the above were in front of me.


More later

What id like to know is whats the alternative. I was too young to take part in the riots but I remember them clearly. I also remember family talking how when they got the chance they would fire some licks on a police bwoy as the level of harrassment then was rediculous. The late80's wasnt that great either.But black unity. I believe it is possible and necessary. But only once it is common knowledge among the youths coming up that ALL black people share a common history, have a common enemy (Uncle Toms and those who hold us back,). Education is the key I think. But for us to ally with any and which group seems to remotely share our aims is suicide.

Lets remember there is European Unity wherever they find themselves in the world. Based on common aims and their shared history. That is why the black man/woman finds racism in whichever Euro country. Its consistent. Because its a united effort.

Anyway must get back to work...

Black unity??? Easy to say in words very difficult to attain in reality - reason being after all those riots, fights for equalitythe youths of today have it easy. They have certain privileges that blacks of yesteryear did not have, it is not perfect but they cannot see this because all they are after is personal gain and the race for material needs.

Talking to someblack youths and even some my age alotdon't understand institutionalised racism or even fully understand racism in itself because they never experienced it with such vernim as the past. So in saying this why would people unite in the face of adversity in which they cannot see - fighting against a blind force.

Unless black society in general fix up and stop harping on about IR dating, 'professional' women, black man not being up to scratch,dead beat mums and dads fix up and stopping thinking because of life choices one is better than the other,and move together as one. And most importantly educate the children and that does not stop at making sure they are attending school because the education system is dumbed down and wants to create robots, its about teaching them about black history.

One song I think by Whitney says it perfectly

I believe the children are our future/TEach them well and let them lead the way/show them all the beauty they possess inside/give them a sense of pride and make it easier/let the childrens laughter remind us how we used to be

Black unity? Never gonna happen. You only have to look at the subject matter of the majority of topics on this forum to see what people think about for the most part. It may happen in Africa itself one day mind, but anywhere else. Not a chance,too many peoplehave thedog eat dog mentality I'm afraid.

How can Black people unite whenwe are educated,housed,fed,employed by whites?

This argument in the US is as old as dirt.Please folks in the UK do not make the mistake that we made in the US. Political "power" without economic power behind it is an illusion.

If blacks can't united in Africa because of tribalism, wishing for it on a worldwide scale is a fruitless exercise.I remeber the riots in Washington DC after the death of MLK.Though I wasthree, the fear was so thick.riots achieve nothing but Black homes, and businesses being destroyed along with Black lives.

Ayousha what is it that black people are meant be uniting against or for?

First of I think its stupid to be expected to unite just because we are black, as we are a very diverse people and the only thing most of us have in common is just the colour of our skin. There is the whole African/Caribbean divide. I have a South African background and during my time in the UK I have come across Ghanaians, Nigerians, Kenyans, Somailians, Zimbabweans......etc and I have very little in common with a lot of these people. Even amongst South africans there are 11 different ethnic groups. I could go on but I really don't see why everyone expects us to unite since we are all so different. I say live and let live. History has shown that when "black" people have needed to unite they have.

In conclusion yes it is unrealistic to expect black people to unite(even in the UK), the cultural differences are vast.