I want to hear from my friends in the UK,Africa, the Carribean, etc? What is your opinion of US blacks as a whole.

Judging from some comments on this site, we are basically some brainwashed, materialistic nomads without a culture.but i want to hear responses before I jump in.

@Burning Spear..Bruv. I really dislike when people attempt to misrepresent others and then go elsewhere and bad mouth them under their breathes. Very unmaly where I am from.....

But given I have checked all the othe threads and haven't seen anything vauguely related must be me and my "du du"[hear that Kunjufu-back off] you are referring too on the "Would African women marry non African men".


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"Posted: Monday July 5th, 2004 01:03 pm -
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@Burning Spear. I was actually being tongue in cheek. Even though I could be more serious on the point and did make exception for concious and very culturally rooted African-Americans. So possibly did not read my post carefully or chose to ignore what I said.

But even then what constitutes culturally centrerd in the US and what we would consider it, is completely different. Have you ever spoken to non African Americans who have spent time with African-Americans in Africa or Caribbean with the average African American to hear their perceptions. Whether they are ordinary people or the most concious elite, the differences in most cases are very pronounced. Read books autobiorgaphies of many African-Americans who have spent time in those countries and whether they intend to or not, the cultural differences are massive, whether they are entertainers, sports figures, intellectuals and radicals. For example many of the leading AFrican American women writers refer to African men and CAribbean men in their own countries in almost primmitive and backward terms .No they are not backward, they have strong core values around certain fundamentals which African American men do not have in the same way in many areas.

For example the role of men in those socieites is shaped by indigenous culture not western standards even if they are professional or middle class women with a great degree of autonomy and independence. So know one is saying that African Americans are not nice or attractive or whatever. And how can we as most African Caribbeans relationship with US and African Americans is older than continental Africans and all of us have first cousins etc who are born and bred African Americans. We see these differences clearly at family get togethers and a range of other things.

For example. British Caribbeans have a far stronger cultural link to their home countries than their African American family members. They not only fit into their home countries smoother but do so in far larger numbers.

Brother this is an issue which goes to the core of important issues for international black development. Because tribal and cultural links which many black people want to down play, are fundamental in shaping culture and how we look at things and I have always maintained this for a very very long time. Skin colour is a minimum indicator of commanlity and not sufficient in itself for anything other than reacting against whites.

So this issue is not only important on the interpersonal level, but also other levels.

By the way there is a difference between a steroetype and character/cultural traits. The firstr is all people of a given class do XYX or have XYZ the latter is a significant number from a certain class do or have XYZ.

Furthermore the majority of black men in this country do not or ever have dated whites. These people just have a very high profile in accord to offically desired representation. But then the social structure and patterns of residency etc in the US is fundmentally different. So accessing and being around white women is completely different in the US compared to here. So you cannot use one to compare with another as these are different social and cultural systems with different histories.

Peace Out

FB

Burning Spear responded: "For the sake of this thread I'll just back out peacefully,but you are throwing around alot of steretypes.I know alot of Black Carribeans who are Jamaican only when its convienent for them.

I have travelled throughtout Africa and visited the Carribean and the breakdown of the family unit appears to be a worldwide phenomena that appears more rooted in economics than anything else.

But to stay on topic women will marry within their comfortzones.But as the global village expands intermariage will occur.

I know many US black/Carrib/African unions.Don't follow all closely.People progress, or divorse over the usual mess, money,infidelity and the like.Becasue a brother is from Atlanta and not say Harrare should not be the deciding factor.What we as black americans need to do is venture out into the wider world.Once that is done the stereotypes will die out.
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Bro they are not stereotypes but cultural traits....There is a difference. And it does make a difference, because I had a girlfriend from Zimbabwe whose family thought I was great. But I wasn't going to be living in Zimbabwe no time sooon...Got things to do back home...and she was not leaving Zimbabwe and why should she...


FBniceone.gif

And finally......"Posted: Saturday July 10th, 2004 12:09 pm -
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@Burning Spear said:"I have travelled throughtout Africa and visited the Carribean and the breakdown of the family unit appears to be a worldwide phenomena that appears more rooted in economics than anything else".

Don't think your right there bro..The breakdown in African family in the continent is not the same and of type or scale as we have here. There is no babymother/father crisis in Africa. There are families disrupted by economics, migration war etc. There is no breadkwon in the Caribbean family in the Caribbean. The biggest issue on family matters in the Eastern Caribbean is teen parents. People there generally think folks here are crazy, especially women and that is how women view it.

My female cousins who are all highly educated and travelled black women say they would prefer their sons to marry one of their own eg Caribbean or Africans, who they met at uni or in their travels. But not women from England and definitely not the US, who are a bit like women from Barbados but without the cultural order/sophistication and constraints. Bajan women like Caribbean women love their men and country and have strong family values and that type of stuff.

Women in the Caribbean do not marry lightly and divorce in the way black women in the US do and why family warns you to mine those women. I have at least 4 aunts/uncles who have been married 60 plus years. Got cousins who have been in the US for 30 years and not kids who say this every day. A woman back home will know her husband is messing around will cuss him out or make noise but she is not going to divorce her husband easily.

I have two very attractive and very succesful professional female cousins whose husband had women. Their wive's just clap them with their heavisest cooking pot and in one case tell him to come out the house.

And the real thing which burns these women in the public nature of these men's foolishness and its damage to their public face. Look there are too many hot and attractive and desirable women in the Caribbean for a woman to think she is going to end her marriage for foolishness for what.
But in the case ofthis is a short term measure because no woman is going to order a man out of his home which he bought in the Caribbean. No police man is going to order a man off his property. At worse if things are too hot, he will be told to go by his family and kin and come back in a couple of days, which is what happens.

There is no honour or stature in being a divorced woman in them parts, unless your husband is a real dog and publicly humiliating the woman or really past the boundary. But people don't divorce like that. There is no legal profession with an interest in that kind of issue in the way there is here.

In white countries like Britian and the US where black people are more exposed to the policy and fads, and ideas of white people our families will be weaker. But not in black countries which black men run and heavily influence. Ain't happening. Is she going to get a man whose attitudes are fundamenally different. White men are not an option for the overwhealming majority and so are African American men.

I don't know of more than one woman who has an African-American husband in my island or local community and she met him in the US and returned home. Most Caribbean people in the US move with their own island or regions people.

So while I agree with your sentiments, but not the facts.


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BurningSpear I will reserve my comment. Visit blackvoices.com.I am sure you are familiar with the site. Some of the comments made by Black Americans about non American black people(especially Africans)are appalling.

@419. No diversion regarding other sites. The brother was talking about this Forum. Even though I personally think he is exaggerating because he could not counter the arguments put to him, why the averagae African woman would not run to marry an African American.

So looking at other sites actually missess the essential point in question and the reason for this thread I suggest.


FB

@Burning Spear. I have never heard of blackvoices.com and can only imagine what is on it. But from what is being suggested does that not show you what I am saying at a crude level.

Why you feel the need to start a thread like this only god knows and you may actually create the one thing you want the least...And even if some women post saying they think the average African American is great and marriage or partner for life material, that does not contradict anything I said, as we were talking about majority atttitudes.


Well we will see where this madness ends. I hope positively from your point of view...



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@Burning Spear I forgot. Did you check Midori29's thread on I Love Caribbean men which was an article written by an African-American woman. The response to that article by many outlined the offensive and patronising assumptions underlying these popular notions held by sections of African-American women.

I think Coltrane said many of these ideas came straight from Terry Macmillan's "Stella Got Her Groove Back". MacMillan is supposed to be an educated and travelled black woman. Those type of assumptions shows that this is not about serious relationships and reproducing the type of white attitudes we see in white tourists when they come to the region. Not the type of values which makes for serious relationships.

FBconfused3

i have lived in america but always identified myself as a caribbean child, as do most west indian folk will. on nappturality there is a thread where west indians were stating that they were being forced into the african american census grouping many opting to tick other

in the uk we are not denied our cultural heritage nor do we have to proclaim it in away as to make a statement. people just except that there are cultural differences.

me perosnally see african americans just as americans. americans believingthey are teh blue-print on all life has to offer. they romanticise the caribbean experience etc.

as fredblack said. its a cultural thing. i think the american lifestyle and anti-nationalism actually waters down peoples cultures.

FredBlack,



You are obviously an intelligent brother,but comprehension does notdenote intelligence.I did not single you out nor did I point out to someone specifically in my thread.I was making a reference to the overall tenor that I have felt on this board.confused2

Seems that Black American's are almost seen as "not" Black enough when some debates arein discussion.I'm not trying to start or cause a rift in anyway.I'm just stating an opinion.

@Burning Spear don't patronise me first jump on top of insult. I do n0t need your affirmation of my intelligence nor my comprehension. Even when I explain to you the difference between traits and stereotypes, you still continue with your lack of comprehenison on the issue. In fact it was your comprehension or lack of, which forced you to start this foolish thread.

You may need to check your motivation for starting this thread if truth be known and how you responded to something which is quite actually obvious.

I comprehend you very clearly. You and I were having a discussion when you raised this issue. I checked other threads to see if this was a burning issue elsewhere and it wasn't. The time you posted this nonsense is not long after our discussion.

That is a very reasonable deduction my dear Watson. You don't have to be calling anyone by name my brother and those of us who are experience on this Forum know how particular types of people operate. Becaues I do not see any threads around here where the comments you choose to highlight here appears.

So don't patronise me brother, because it is insulting.

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