Please don't say you want both because that avoids answering the question and it makes it boring.


People of generations of the past were exposed to very little however that very little they were exposed to tended to be highly valuable to their development in terms of gaining wisdom and understanding of the purpose of life, and leading very fulfilling and satisfying lives.

Generations of today have endless opportunities to indulge in their interests and are exposed to variety of experiences and yet we seem to be restless, unfuliflled, and we even seem to have a shallow appreciation of the experiences we have had and many times depressed.

Where is it all going wrong?
Should we seek fewer experiences with a specific ultimate goal in mind or should we experience things for the sake of experience?

@Flow..Been meaning to say this for a week or two. You really post some excellent threads. For real and this is no exception.

Totally agree with your summation. Not sure how to answer but it does appear you are spot on. I love debating but what I find is it is almost impossible to seriously reason with I would say the majority of people and what is worse many of them love to talk and argue. But they know abosolutely nothing of what they speak often so I can't even sum up the energy.

In fact I am usually a spectator especially at functions where women gather whether it is family etc and they love to debate and argue and wonder why I simply do not participate. I find men have more depth even when they know less in bredth and do not pretend to. I don't think it is unique to sex even though there is a greater tendency I would suggest. I mean a brother will know foot ball or what's going on in the community or a particular incidentand we can talk that all night but transfer that to most other areas and people are lost.

But with nodoubt women are worse genrally, particularly as they tend to talk more definietly in my family men will start a conversation and simply get muscled out by blabbing women. And my can they talk and have energy.

A few sisters have real depth and it has nothing to do with education but socialisation. But I find generally they know lots of little things which really don't pull together to constitute any real depth on anything. Men have odd hobbies eg comics and can educate you and talk all night or cars etc.

The education system is no doubt critical to this but also what people actually think knowledge is, also popular culture promotes a sense of knowing which is illusionary. Soishow people's minds operate.

Had a discussion with a younger femlae cousin about tatooing she jumped up with all her authority and then started to spout of the biggest crock of crap you could imagine. But the thing though she thought she was right and I couldnot even get a sentence in so abandoned the excercise and stared at East Enders or something on the box. Can't be asked bro.

Life is short.



FBniceone.gif

Flow@..........

I think I know what you mean and for what its worth I believe its all down to being in a disposable world.Nothing is off any great value....cost yes.....value no.People experience everything....first or second hand via TV. Anybody can experience relatively easily and cheaply what was hard won till a few years ago.You can "buy" time in a hot air baloon or a racing car....stand inches from super star athletes or pop stars....climb in the Himalayas or ski in the Alps,Scuba dive the Barrier Reef.....if not in person "virtually" on TV .There appear to be no barriers,no taboos,no restrictions.

It is probably the ease of availabity that makes you say what you said....its a poser for sure.

And for what its worth I dont think most of us appreciate what we experience....or learn from it....we all tend to know a lot about nothing....but know less and less about what is really important.

Geoff

@ FB - its a pity you didnt answer Flow-Unclever's question; I am sure he/she was not looking for a treatise on "who knows more: men or women?"

Sometimes, I am just baffled by your answers....

@ Flow-unclever - without a doubt bredth of knowledge and experience is more pertainent than depth. I am too tired to go into much detail, but I will say that a panoramic view of life...however fleeting....can capture in an instant what a lifetime of single vision can never teach you.

experience for experince sakes...without a doubt.

@Happiness baffled is much a product of the reader than the person who makes the statement. Things general in society impact on people in different ways. People are not level playing feels or interpret things in the same way. I bet you an money if you spend time with Jews you will see they have very deep understanding of things and not superficial people regardless of what the dominant culture is.

So I understand what I am saying very well. Because society is say superficial does not mean it impacts on people in the same way. I can tell you in a second there is a fundamental difference in how we take these things on. For example I know men who will talk in great depth on a range of things regardless of education. But not many women who are more educated. The books you read interests shapes the mind.

My wife has a brilliant incivise mind but it is not very deep but very quick and sharp far more than mine. Sisters no different

For example you may not know this but women are far more prone to many of the popular ideas and notions in society than men and if you taped conversations of people talking you will see that. Men generally understandstructure better and hence more critical.

Theyactually think differntly and moved by other thingsIt is no secret men develop deeper and differnt types of conciousness than women hence why they are more overtly political generally and if you ever taught or was in that environment it would be apparent in a second as it is on these forums. Look regardless of education men dominate more complex discussion not women. That is a pattern which is well established. Study populuar subcultures who creates them and why and what it tells you about how people think and process.

So if you are baffled nothing wrong with that. I am not and that is what is critical here.

Sit and listen to my female family members with some exceptions and it is like listening to a televison programme or magazine how they take things on but with no real depth. Simple as.

Glad to clarify that. I trust you can check some books on pyshiology and the workings of the mind and come back it may clarify any bafflement.

FB

@flow Happiness was helpful in making realise I answered in the specific first not the general. You said

Generations of today have endless opportunities to indulge in their interests and are exposed to variety of experiences and yet we seem to be restless, unfuliflled, and we even seem to have a shallow appreciation of the experiences we have had and many times depressed.

Where is it all going wrong?
Should we seek fewer experiences with a specific ultimate goal in mind or should we experience things for the sake of experienceral.

I would say your statement is a bit wide for me. My starting point is surely it is how people have been taught to reflect or use their experiences and their different capacities. Some people may be more prone to this than others, which is the point that bafflled my dear Happiness. It is not uniformed. Some are more likely to buy into that others not and it depends on the context does it not?.

For example some may for example seek all kinds of sexual experiences others not or forms of excitement. It difffers anddoes not lend itself to a general response it would seem to me.Somethjing may be fashionalbe and popular and a must have experience but it is all highly contingent it would seem to me on specifics. Hence my example of popular attitudes eg what people take on. Men take on some and not others or less inclined to while both party takes on others.Again who is restless not really sure?.

Do you mean an never ending search for something? If so who beauseI am not sure who that applies to and if true.

That is the best I can make of this one. People are not sponges and do actually discrimate on what they take on and not. What appeals to them and why that is the case.

Make sense now Happiness.? People and genders have different dispostions. Not complicated at all.



FBniceone.gif

flow-unclever wrote:

Quote:

Please don't say you want both because that avoids answering the question and it makes it boring.

Quote:

I have both then already, not all that muchI want to experience anyway..Because I find most things that people do to entertain themselves boring, andthey only do itbecause other people do it anyway. If it doesn't have alasting effect or a learning curve then it's pretty much worthless in the wider scale of things.. With depth, I attain that with something that is purely mine. Me myconsciousnessand it's mind and body. People of generations of the past were exposed to very little.

Quote:

And because of that they had more time to think things through, and come to better conclusions. Older people especiallyof generations past were much much morewiser than almost all people alive today because of that, fewer distractions.

Quote:

Have you read popular science, todays science books? Compare it tosomething written even as little as 70 years ago and you'd think the planet had gone backwards in its evolution. Most offer little depth and there is nopassion in the work, since it's basically someone elsesego spin of another person'sideaanyway. That's generally like howall people live today. They want to be like everybody else but themselves, mainly because that's how we are taught to think from quite a early age. No wonder they get angry alot and depressed.

Quote:

People then were exposed to very little yet somehow had more of value to say, and certainly more to offer the world.. Better teachers too because they had more depth.

Quote:

However today people are spoon fed, and think they have depth when they actually have none. Reading a book or watching something on telly doesn't give a person depth or experience, it onlygives them information which is useless unless it's practiced andunderstood, then it becomes knowledge, and if one desires to act on that said knowledge correctly then it's wisdom, which is depth of thought.. You only have to browse through the majority of the topics on this and any other forumto see where most people's minds are.

Quote:

On oneside you have people who seek mental stimulation, and on the otherside you have those who seek emotional stimulation normally via arguing over something that in reality means jack squat. "Ok I'll insult you, becauseI want to hurt your feelings." Generally is stupid, fun yes, but still it's silly. Normally happens with certain people who aren't very smart but who claim to be intelligent and normally drop the worduniversity at some point.

Quote:

Can you say that people desire depth? I can't see it anyway, no way do they.People can't desiredepth when most people think they already have it no matter what age they are. Too much book knowledge, no practiceor experience of said knowledge, thus no understanding, just allmouth.

Quote:

Emotional depth they have though,yah,people have that, so much so they're bordering on crazy without even knowing it..

Quote:

If people desired depth it they'd have it and work at it, they'd spend time thinking things through. Instant replies or commentsto something or someoneisn't really thinking things through at all, itmerely shows that that person is over-emotional, and does little mental work own their own.

Quote:

Just watch how Prime ministers question time works. These are the people who are supposedly leading the country. Have you ever heard someone say "I'll think about that" or "I'll putthat into consideration"in there? Would you say these people think and have depth.? Would you say that arguing and rejecting everything the opposition throws at you a good way of making decisions. No one comes to an agreement, no conclusions about anything,just a simple "We're right you're wrong because you're the opposition." A rather dumb process in the running of the country if you ask me.

Quote:

Peopledo desire emotional stimulation over mental stimulation believe me.

Quote:

Just look at what people argue and talk about these days. Anything too deep in reply to themand their mindsshort circuitand it's "Oh I think you misunderstand me." or they're insulting. One or the other depending on the intelligencelevel. It'sno misunderstanding though it's just that the information isn't presented tothem so thatthey can understand it fully. I.e you're not capable quite yet of understanding what is said. Simple as. Then theyjust try and turn around their lack ofunderstanding onto the other person. It would help if they learnt to listen first.

Quote:

You may know how a TVoperates but could you build one? Most can't obviously since they haven't the knowledge or depth of thought to pull it off. They merely just have the information. The same goes for everything else on this Earth. You learnhowonce you practice it, which is the experience which would bring the how to knowledge.

Quote:

Most people today especally the kiddies around think mere information constitutes as knowledge andexperience. It's why most of them are dumb in comparsion to say people of even 20 years ago.

Quote:

Quote: You can't properly think if you can't sit in silence to hear your own thoughts, half the time people don't even know what they're thinking about, since they just react react and reactto every piece of stimuli available to them. Not helped by the fact that 1, they either have the TV on in the background, and 2, if it's not that it's the radio. You can't think 100% if you're distracted thinking about something else around. And you can't think about one thing if you're not focused on one thing. For example if you're focused on your emotions you're not going to beable to think straight about the now, since you're not focused in the now.

Quote:

Quote: And people wonder why they're more car accidents every year. The answer is obvious really if but stop to think about it. How many times do people have to repeat themselves these days. "Can you say that again", "What did you say?"or the best one I hear today is, "I don't think you fully understood", or "You misunderstand me."

Quote:

Quote: Truth is it's almost always the other person who misunderstands because they're too busy thinking or going off on oneinstead of listening to what is said.. Just walk around town and look about, most people look like they're in a trance. Yes even you.

Quote:

Quote: In a nutshell too many distractions make people docile.

Quote:

however that very little they were exposed to tended to be highly valuable to their development in terms of gaining wisdom and understanding of the purpose of life, and leading very fulfilling and satisfying lives.

Quote:

Simply because they were not as distracted as much as todays people, also they weren't over-emotionallike people are today. They didn't go postal merely because they had lost their purse or because someone didn't share their world view. In fact they didn't go postal when bombs were being dropped on them let alone a mere wallet displacement.

Quote:

Less distractions equalsmore focus on the present moment, more focus equalsmore knowledge and understanding of the present moment, more understanding equalsmore mental discipline, which equals better conduct in the moment and of course more knowledge and wisdomof the moment mainly because they'e focused and learn or have learntmore from the presentexperience.

Quote:

Children learn quicker than adultsbecause they have less on their minds when they're young, they're more focused in the present moment and enjoying life. Adults however are busy thinking and learn little new past the age of 18, unless they're highly intelligent.

Quote:

They lead fulfilling and satisfying lifes because they didn't spead all their time worrying about the past nor creating what if scenarios in their minds constantly, i.e worrying about the future..

Quote:

The main cause of mental illness is being distracted, too much thinking from here to there minute by minute, day by day, constantly throughout the years isn't going to do anyone much good. Most people today are close to schizophrenic, only they call it a mood swing now.. Pah they don't even know what they're swinging from.

Quote:

Generations of today have endless opportunities to indulge in their interests and are exposed to variety of experiences and yet we seem to be restless, unfuliflled, and we even seem to have a shallow appreciation of the experiences we have had and many times depressed.

Quote:

Hence my schizophrenic comment. It's mental illness. Maybe if they turned the radio or TV off now and again they'd work out why they're depressed in silence. Depression is a lack of creativity in my opinon, can't create much when you're constantlydistracted can you now..

Quote:

Silence is abnormal to people these days though. They were born surrounded by constant noise.

Quote:

Humans live in an unnatural environment sothey ain'tgoing to think naturally, nor act naturally, you think it's screwed up now?, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Quote:

Where is it all going wrong?

Quote:

Well at least you recognize it as a problem, most don't.

Quote:

Waaaay too much typed, probablyunnecessarilybut I generally don't answer questions directly anyway, unless I see the reasoning and intentbehind the question.

Few monthes ago I was helping someone with her GCSE Maths and Physics. I observed that the National curriculum was too keen to teach them how cd players and mobile phones work rather than the fundamental ideas of electromagnetism which could be transferreed to any stages of technological age. Basically their knowldge of how Cd players work and how mobile phones function will only be useful as long as these consumer products are in the market the moment they become obsolete all those years invested on education which was meant to be useful to them for life become wasted years. Physics lessons are no longer lessons to train the minds in understanding the physical forces interacting with matter but have become lessons on how man has made use of these forces for his comfort. i am sure similar conclusions can be drawn on other subjects.

Which makes me ask certain questions about IT degrees.

Probably certain academics would love to return to the traditional purposes of learning and scholarship but we live in a materialistic world where anything that is done needs to have financial justification if a certain knowledge does not have an obvious economical advantage people see no point in teaching it or learning it.

Traditional scholarship is based on the student going to the teacher under an understanding that the teaching being the one with knowledge determines what to teach the student nowadays students tell the teachers what they should be taught which is a mark of an arrogant society. In the past one of the fruits of knowledge was hummility and modesty nowadays the first step to knowledge is arrogance and it breeds even more arrogance.

I would have....................and think I have Depth. I was born with an old head on my shoulders, God-given commonsense and an upbringing that taught me that to know of something is to think about it logicially not jump into the experience.