the mass of africans in the uk at present, descend from immigrants who have come here over the last 50 years.

what do people think is the future of the race within the uk?

what gains should we expect for our people here in the next 3 to 5 generations?

Quite simplyI think we will just become more English'fied'. Its happening already!

Plus it would be a natural thing to become.

I actually things would be far better really.

One of the major problemsI have with today is with the, 'fresh off the boat' people in our midst now.

They have not lived here long enough to know the 'score' so to speak, yet they come telling us how it is!!!

They tend not to see the racism that some of the 'dyed in the wool' people see, or they don't see it in the same way.

Because of that they think that everything is alright. Until they learn! lol!

By then I think there would be a good significant amount of us who would be able to fight the whites with their eyes more open.





The fight begins a lot sooner than that, but by then it would be more established.

@Breadfruit. Brother had to respond and share some work and views with you. My concern is on the infrastructial or assett dimension and its strategic implications. A commmunity like any organisation or business or army must have particular stuctural assetts to be able to successfully negotiate the mulitple complex problems they have and it is almost an inverse statistical relationship that the weaker a community the more problems it has to overcome.

I was up late working on stuff and doing a lot of reading on an area of socio-economic policy and some of the information I read to say it is disturbing is an understatement. The key and most vital institution which determies all else the family is the most important indicator of social health we can use.

Now we can argue about the actual figures or whether the methodology used by scholars X or Y has a distorting effect of so and so percent or that plain stats by themselves are misleading etc. But regardless, it simply not possible to say a whole group of experts in a range of areas and different nations can come to similar conclusions and all be wrong, especially when they concurr with what most of us have been saying from day one.

The weakest section of the black community is the African-Caribbeans, no doubt or question and we all know why I should hope. The family unit is being attack by two fundamental and potentially devastating forces the very high degree of mix marriage or relationships that is man and woman, and most deadly of all is the concept of fatherless families. Mixed race relationships while not on, actually is not as harmfull and can be used astutely to our interests, but not in the case of single parent familes.

What is interesting the concept of fatherless families has been cited by serveral leading social policy experts as the biggest threat to America not even black America, but the nation as a whole. But what is worse and people like Kunjufu can back me here that from the first post I ever wrote on this matter I said openly what I am going to say now and it was not based on serious study of the specialist literature just experience and using your eyes and head.

The reason why fatherlessness amongt our people here is the one thing that fundamentally affects or survival and capacity is this. It is one of the few if only areas in the whole of black decision making where people as rational decision makers benefit in multiple ways by taking an action which harms black people at our core.

I said this long time because the amount of women who I know choose fatherlessness despte what they say. Because all the research on male attitudes to fatherhood across the world shows me what most men raised with father's no intuitively. That men see their children as indivisible from them regardless if they are good or fathers. Children are fundamentally part of the package and not divisible in male pscyhe.

It is an all or nothing scenario.So women cannot impose particular change on how men see their families as they would prefer to walk. My father sees his role as absolute over me. Nobody or outsider or agency dare step into his business or mymother would never bring them in his affairs becausethe consequences would be like dropping an atomic bomb. You undermine that man once there will never be a second time.

In the case of other situations maleslose and have little rational interest generally to bring children into this world in poor circumstances the only beneificaries are particular groups of black women or women period because the same calculations can be seen in studies of other countries and the explanations given for preganancy.

Equally without exception the needs of the child or the demands of parenthood play little consequences in these decisions. This is even more prevlaent in nations with a developed welfare state which creates incentive no matter how minimal of material benefits and protection which does not acrrue to the father who is seen immediatly as the perpertrator and there is tons of studies of whites and all kinds of western nation where fathers period are deliberately portrayed in that way. As many white academics said one of the sucesses of the feminist movement of the 70's was the creation of the image of the father as demon which pervades social policy.

In fact I was reading an excellent book about how fathers are portrayed in popular media image compared to the emprical realty. Some men deserve that image however like all these things its prevalance bears no relationship to reality as the same way the image of female victims who are being massed raped to become council and housing associatins and welfare mummies. As I called it the "myth of the one jook pregnancy".

So in short we are in serious shit street because to be blunt we have a potential 5th column element whose emotional or other wants drives them t bascially destroy our communities and all the evidence shows that absent fathers increases the risk of children on every social indicator from emotional health , physcial health you name it, more likely to be poor, involved in crime and go on to reproduce more of the same and increasing degrees of problems.

I received an e-mail from a leading white Professor on this area who I needed advise from and he said brave man to want to discuss these things. Not because we are wrong far from, but it is not politiacally correct even though all intelligent people can see clearly that this consistency not only here but in other countries cannot be explained by male behaviour but concious decision making of women.

At the same time other writers have correctly said that the death of communitty activism in our communities is in effect a death sentence on us, because their is no major cultural challenges being made or practical alternatives being provided or enough leadership with sufficient quality to tackle the brancches of these various issues.

So when two of your most critical pieces of military machinary of literally limping and we have a coumminty essential more involved in problem identification and taking about ideals and not addressing the fundamental reality we are not in good shape.

The sad thing is this as you know why you created this thread. Policy professionals, strategists,academics or very serious and intelligent thinking people actually think about what is down the road. The average man and woman don't give a back foot their small lives is their world. So of course what happens rather than acting we carry on until the predictions and reality meet and then immediately into crisis mode and panic but nothing to actually address the issues with.

I don't think looking at the objective facts coldy things look good at all.

FB

Breadfruit

Yes we are finished in this country at the rate we are going. Continental Africans as they are born and grow here under the dominant culture and contunue to NOT enforce their own culture will go the way ofus Carribeans. Mixed relationships will become the norm and Blacks will be replaced numerically by amixed raceclass within 3 generations.

There will be more opportunities for Black people to work within government and the armed forces may even have a few Black generals. But our overall economic power will dwain and we will become even more dependent and look for less reasons to develop as a community. Blacks will become more marginalised than ever. Mixed race will be the new acceptable face of Black.

In a nutshell look at America and see what happens when a minority is within a white dominant society for generations. Because of the relative small numbers we are here in/ multiply the effect X 5.

I take it pessimissim is allowed. As a force Black people here /unless there is some major social upheval/ are finished.

A white man once said to me.. " I love the way you Black acknowledge each other even when your strangers... I envy your community spirit"

I agreed with him. Inside my head I was thinking you dont know the half my friend. That spirit done from long time. Every ****er is out for themselves here. People here have no need to unite under the banner Black/ African. We are too sated and too weak in every way.

Thats why I spend my time looking for land opportunities in the Carribean.

Britain in 50 years time is not an attractive proposition for this Black man. Let alone 20.

@fredb & mansa

yes africans

"a people without a vision are dead"

historically, as i have said before on these boards, africans dont seem to endure as constant communities, in britain, over many generations


there's definitely a systematic function at play

the inability to learn from history condemns us a group.

garvey's words: organise or perish!!!

simple tings


my pan-africanism is alive - i grew hearing stories of maroons and africans who arrived post-emancipation (which include my family) been harassed and dis-respected by settled africans in jamaica, colonialism had now deemed different or superior

that was in the 19th century


( ironically much of the progressive organizational work done on the island has its roots in this very same people – and those who take the history and progress of our people very seriously )

simple tings: to study our own experience in diaspora - to have pride in what we have done, lessons learnt – who we are.

as fb has stated many time here, leadership rests with a few.

but i believe, great leaders only arise from great people - there has to be a qualitative mass from which come great men and women.

the british, as mansa implied, have always limited its african population in terms of its numbers.

for all the constant media scaremongering about blacks "swamping" the nation, africans make up but 2% of the populous

and without numbers, economic and political power, self-determination is just a dream

but

africans endured slavery - a european nation state organised holocaust - centuries in duration

we are an ancient, blessed people

who's history is not one marked by failure, but of meaning and purpose

this is the way of those and that we hold high

and right now that purpose, is the struggle

What is our struggle in Britain anyway?

Personally, I'm here for the education, opportunities, and to influence policies here so that it becomes possible for the same education and opportunity to be available in Africa.

I don't think we're going to be able to change British culture to the point where this feels like Africa. (apart from the shocking weather, which whatever else happens isn't going anywhere!) I don't think that was ever on the cards. Ultimately thats the killer. Because even if every trace of bigotry was cleansed from every British man/woman in the country, cultural differences/misunderstandings, practically speaking, will affect us in the same way racism does.

All I'm looking for is to do my part to get Africa justice, then retire back in Africa somewhere beautiful and as close to the equator as possible...

When Africa has strength at least comparable to Europe's (it might take a long time, but I know we can do it), then I'll consider our struggle here over.

Given that view of our struggle, I don't need the UK to preserve a thriving African community... Though it would be nice to leave some monuments for our descendants to come and visit in a few generations!

@Breadfruit that is the key issue of leadership supply. You need a big enough supply and activity and movement to create real high calibre leadership class out of which we get the really big people of history. Right now basic supply not even a trickle.

@Mansa..Must it be Jamaica?



FBniceone.gif

Fred

No it dont have to be Jamaica at all. Ideally yes. Want it to be with all my heart.But notuntil the public security situation is sorted out. Not building a house that has to be gated off from the world..and grilled up to form a fire hazard at best.

But I say one thing/ Im fully confident thatmost African dominatedCarribean islands will appeal to my sensibilities..i.e not Cayman or Bermuda..

Keeping my options open for real.

@Mansa. Old story bro. Heard it too many times. Strategic tip used by others. Choose an island where there are a small JA community already. Get the best of both worlds also make good links with peeps from home there, education, insights and links which can set you up or increase options when situation eventually improves back home.

FBniceone.gif

Preemptive strike

Given I accept such stats (which I dont)...

You could think outside the hating UK box and realise that the actions of the folorn 40% actually drive the rest of us who wont follow, to become MORE disenfranchised and yes if you insist on labels more conscious.

No group is a group of one hive mind. We are not the borg. Yes our small numbers have made us weak andin addition we are relatively new here. You could see that the actions of the large number of sellouts and so on make the rest of us fixate on that issue because it is so crucial to us. Yes we have to spend time trying to fix this problem, this mean we have to take a hard line on IR relations here and debate the sellout issue in detail. We dont have time to be playing about. The 60% need to fix the 40% and pull them in check.

Yet when we do this you attack us for being "blacker than thou" whatever the heck that meansconfused3You mock us with labels like conscious and I see in your tone it is more of a slur than a compliment but in such a situation of 40% what would you have us do?? Simply be quiet and watch the process continue?? Join in ourselves?? Somewhere something is wrong and it needs fixing... You can mock and sneer as much as you like but trust me, its a serious thing and we cant leave it alone.

We like those people LESS than you do, so to tar us all with the same brush is hugely insulting and provocative.

@DM I was going to respond and say PS has things slightly confused. First the concious voices in this country are not the ones with the white partners generally as a rule. Secondly, you simply cannot compare the concentration and depth and numbers of blacks in the US to here. Also our disribution and density in parts of the country simple means one thing white parnters. The disrproportionate numbers of black men to women who first came here set one pattern, followd by interacial schooling and a whole heap of factors.

But also proportionately I would think this country probably produces as many if not more concious people than in teh US and more who actually go to Africa and have meaning ful relations. Check the typical attitudes of many US peeps to people here.

So things are far from simple even though not good.

FB