Class in Black British society

coolman · (#1 (**permalink**))

I feel that the black middle-class, here and all over the world, is isolating the black working class and under-class. I, as a black working-class man, feel CHASTISED BEYOND BELIEF, by the black middle-class. I get that vibe from black middle-class people on here, and in or around society. Do I have reason to feel this way? Do you feel this way about yourself, as a working-class person, or person from the under-class?

Forget the fakeness and light-hearted banter, covering up the REAL problems. Let's discuss this.

NomadaNare · (#2 (**permalink**))

Could you please provide more details? I am from the USA so I dont underastand what you mean when you "vibe". What have they done? Do they leer at you or, do they make disparaging comments? Are they actively campaigning to get rid of some primarily lower-class black institution or law? Could you disclose more on the situation that you speak?

umbrarchist · (#3 (**permalink**))

I'm in the US and similar crap is going on here.

Part of this seems to come from British culture however. Working with your hands is LOW CLASS. Working with your mind is HIGH CLASS.

My perspective on this is somewhat unusual because I studied electrical engineering but dropped out and went to work for Panasonic as an audio technician. It was lots more fun than EE school and I got payed for messing with electronics all day instead of going into debt for irrelevant courses. You cannot troubleshoot electronic equipment to the transistor level without using your hands and your mind. When I went to work for a high end audio retailer plenty of White people with money bought expensive junk that I would only sell if they gave it to me. But everyone is supposed to think it's great because of the name and the high price.

When I went to work for IBM things got even more strange. IBM Customer Engineers used MAPs, Maintenance Analysis Procedures, to fix computers. These were big binders full of programmed instructions to follow to fix the computer. Put your probe on pin 27J, is the red light flashing, YES or NO. If yes do this, if no do that. I didn't have to know ANYTHING about electronics to fix the computer. In fact IBM was the only place I went when I was job hunting that didn't give me an electronics test. I was sick of them after 4 years but I figured that was long enough to get me into the computer industry.

While I was there one of the Black CEs talked about the people that rode a certain public transportation line saying they were "smelly under the arms." Plenty of people that think they have risen in society want to look down on someone else, it makes them FEEL BETTER about themselves I guess.

Of course now IBM has layed off a lot of people and is now out of the PC business. People who were in the computer biz in the old days but really didn't know computers may be in trouble today.

umbrarchist

Mokele Mbembe · (#4 (**permalink**))

Coolman

We discussed this a while ago while using diifferent terms of course and the response from the black middle class online was... interesting. Same way some comfortable people and raceism apologists make play down and deny that racism even exists, these people will try their damndest to stifle any such discussion on class.

Carter G Woodson's essential book "miseducation of the negro" is quite central to this even 70 years on. Check the first fivechapters especially.

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CA95616 · (#5 (**permalink**))

define middle class please

umbrarchist · (#6 (**permalink**))

http://wordwebonline.com/en/MIDDLECLASS

The problem with this definition is that it doesn't take social evolution into account. Doctors and lawyers are traditionally upper-middle class. Where does a computer programmer fit in? They didn't exist before 1945.

What is the relationship between class and income. A good plumber might make more than a high school physics teacher with a masters degree but who is higher CLASS?

umbrarchist

Mokele Mbembe · (#7 (**permalink**))

Any definition of class can not focus singularly on one aspect such as education, parents, social status or salary.

It must encompass all variations. IMO certain professions, accents, school backgrounds, parents carry much much more weight when discussing class than mere salary.

David Beckham makes more money than your bank manager ever will yet would you assume that your bank manager (assuredly a middle class ocupation) is of a lowerclass thanDavid Beckham?

For me how I see it, class is largely a status thing... The ramifications of which are LARGELY ignored by black people but do not be fooled. It is as present and meaningful now as ever. Class affects you to amassive extent yet some of us don't even acknoweldge how. Some of us don't know.

Incognito · (#8 (**permalink**))

There is social class and a class of values. Where black people have gone wrong is they have been assimilated into the Eurocentric social classdictating things like "you are what you drive" and has many of us living this life of "who wants to be like the Jones's"

If academic achievement defines class then I believe not everybody was born to be academic success stories, does that mean they are lower class? To me definitely not which is why if we as race are going anywhere we need to focus on our class of values.

Whetheryou arean academic achiever or a soldier on the front line, or both,everybody has their role to play in the quest of the uplifment of Africa and African peopleworldwide...the last thing you do is think your role givesyou anyright to point your finger.

CA95616 · (#9 (**permalink**))

@coolman

its important thatwe know YOUR definition of class before I or anyone else can really contribute to this thread.

coolman · (#10 (**permalink**))

The problem is bigger than the definition mate. I think the above posters explained it well too.

CA95616 wrote:

Quote:

@coolman

its important thatwe know YOUR definition of class before I or anyone else can really contribute to this thread.

CA95616 · (#11 (**permalink**))

so how can u feel chastised by a group you cant identify?

Cmasta · (#12 (**permalink**))

Im taking you guys saw the Documentry bout class on Channel 4 last nite hmm?

Miss Brighter Days · (#13 (**permalink**))

hmmm this idea of class.

I think itcan be a difficult thing to discuss. Becauseits hard to define.

At what stage do people stop being working class and become middle class. What are the major differences between the classes? Whats the difference between someone who is upper middle class and lower middle class?

To be honest i dislike the whole idea of class especially within the black community- but i am aware of its existance - and the foolishness of people start thinking they are above others - because of the type of work they do, the circles they mix in etc.

Class is a hard one. so i will be interested to see how this thread progresses.