W.E.B. DuBois advocated the "Talented Tenth" theory, which held that the intellectual elite of the black community embodies the best hope of making inroads into American social and political life, and thereby paving the way for other blacks to follow. Also it is the Talented Tenth who could uplift the rest of the black race as well.

He said:
"Was there ever a nation on God's fair earth civilized from the bottom upward?
Never!
It is from the top downward that culture filters. The Talented Tenth rises and pulls all that are worth saving up to their vantage ground. This is the history of human progress."



The older I get and the more experiences I have with different Black people from all over, the more I'm starting to believe that this theory is our best solution.

The problem is, the few Blacks in this world who are forunate enough to get a good education, are born with natural intelligence, or acquire great wealth would rather spend it with white people having fun or show of and belittle other Blacks than use it toimprove thier home environments.
Whether we're talking about the ghettos of America, the shanty-towns of the Caribbean, or the rural villages of Africa. We don't look out for our own.

Black Matta


Any ideas why that might be?

Most of it stems from our immorality as a people.
Our own immorality and wickedness is one of the reasons why we fell from glory in the past and are struggling to survive today.

Outside of education, some of us are just naturally smarter and more intelligent than others...that's in every race.
But unlike whites or Asians where it's generally frowned upon to take advantage of people with less intelligence, too many of our people PREY on and make fun of those type of people.

Instead of establishing institutions in the Black communities that instruct the poor how to gain wealth and make livings for themselves, most of our people who attain wealth despise poorer Blacks and call them stupid and lazy.
We tend to fing rich mates to mooch off of rather than supporting eachother through poverty and lifting ourselves out.

Now I know some of our people are indeed hopeless, but most who are in unfortunate conditions are there because of circumstances beyond their control and we should be trying our best to help THEM get out instead of rubbing our success in their faces.

Black Matta

How did immorality and wickedness lead to glory in the first case?


I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

Immorality and wickedness didn't BRING us to glory...it TOOK us from it.

Most great empires and civilizations begin falling from within, like the West is doing today.

"Was there ever a nation on God's fair earth civilized from the bottom upward?
Never!
It is from the top downward that culture filters. The Talented Tenth rises and pulls all that are worth saving up to their vantage ground. This is the history of human progress."

I am glad that is a theory. My problem I see with he Talented Tenth theory is that it was to showcase 'Negro' abilities to white people and this manmade elitist world who he saw as constant in 'Negro' history. I agree with his analysis of "top downwards that culture filters" which I mentioned about rich people and their habits flow downwards affecting the poorer folks. I also agree that this current human progress and history follows what I see as the "minority group affects the majority group". But there is no way for myself to get what I call the total experience of humanity and education from the Talenth Tenth. They too are very limited like the people they tend to ostracize.

Masai

Upon hearing the arguments of both DuBois and B.T.Washington I made changes in my educational arrangement. I was on the Talented 10th track until I saw how self-serving, white dependent and full of shyt our intellectuals were/are/always been. If Intellectuals are born into a white financing base they are compromised.

The then argument was vocational Education with minimum political involvement versus Intellectualism and political involvement.

If we had focused on Vocational Ed, being Doctors, nurses and Engineers during those times we would have had a better financial base, more home ownership and real Black Power. This would have allowed us control industries. The then emerging Black Class would/could have been overwhelmingly Middles Class and better informed.

The Top down method could work but People Like Gates and other Talented 10th members do not associate with the communities they are said to represent. Gates was hand picked by the Jewish establishment as "Our" Intellectual in America. Why? Because we didn't have a bottom up building up of black infrastructure that allowed for the cultivating of the Black intellectual class.

Actually I take a little from both DuBois and Booker T.

I believe that we should focus on the trades and skills of civilization so that we can become independant as a people. Higher education mearly "fine tunes" one who is alread civilized and independant.

But we should be LEAD into civilization by the "talented tenth"....not necessarily 10%....but the minority of us who are qualified to lead.

I don't think those 2 plans would necessarily clash with eachother so I don't understand what the conflict as about between them. Perhaps because WEB was a little more intellectual and anti-white than Booker T. To my disliking, Mr.Washington suggested that we learn skills and trade so that we may "know our place" in this society. Perhaps that was why they differed.


But to your point about how smug and arrogant the "talented tenth" are towards their own people, that's exactly the type of immorality that holds us back and keeps us from progressing. If we fixed this attitude, we would be able to improve oursleves.




Umbrarand Defyfear

It's not so much about whether or not the talented tenth theory is true...because it's as close to the truth about our condition as we can get.
Who can deny that only a minority of our race world wide is succesfful and educated enough to compete globally?

The fact is only a minority of our people have achieved a sufficient among of wealth, education, and intellectual ability to live successful and indepenant lives. Most of us haven't so SOMEBODY is gonna have to reach back and help the masses.

Shouldn't we expect that minorty of our people qualified to do it rather than condescending whites?




Black Matta

Er...I think you misunderstood my question. Again...
How did a wicked and immoral regime rise to glory in the first place?

It wasn't wicked and immoral to begin with...it TURNED wicked and immoral.

Black Matta

What made it TURN wicked and immoral?

Greed and arrogance.

Our leaders became drunk off their own power. The more wealth and success they got, the more they wanted and the less they paid homage to the higher powers who blessed them with that wealth and success.

People started using the medicines and sciences for wicked purposes such as putting curses on eachother and witch-craft.

Rulers became greedy hording tons of wealth and women, while depriving their own citizens and allowing poverty to run rampant.

Instead of worship God/gods...they started worshipping thier ancestors and kings.

This lead to frustrations and further moral break-down in society until it became weak enough for others outside to exploit those weaknesses and conquer them.

This is VERY interesting...

Umbrar


It sounds like you believe in this competition crap.

If I beat my neighbor by buying a more expensive car, I pay more interest on the loan unless I pay cash. I loose more in depreciation.

You will notice the schools aren't teaching everybody accounting and telling them they are supposed to be concentrating on net worth. We are supposed to compete for jobs we aren't taught what to do with the money afterwards.

Look at the system more closely. The people we are told are succeeding are just higher up on the treadmill. It is a scam being run on all of us.

An HONOR student gets A's in everything. Even useless garbage. If he was really smart wouldn't he figure out it was garbage and not waste his time?

Sa long as you think in terms of competition there will have to be loosers. Running your life away on a treadmill is not winning.


I'm not disagreeing with anything you just said, but how does this dispute the theory of the Talented Tenth helping the others of our race?

This theory isn't about competition, but exactly the opposite.

It's about the successful minority helping the majority to reach success themselves.

Black Matta

Outsiders with less or more moral strength? Less or more immorality and wickedness?

Who knows they state of morality those invaders had.

Regardles of their level of righteousness, they were contenders trying to get in and had the ambition and motivation to use thier resources to DESTROY our weakening civilization.

Doesn't take much morality and sophistication todo that, just skill in warfare and a fierce determination to succeed.