was just thinking - Pro Lifers don't go far enough. They claim to believe that a foetus is a human being. But they are trying (the vast majority of them) to stop abortion by peaceful means, while at the same time hundreds of thousands of foetuses are destroyed every year. Surely, if hundreds of thousands of human beings are being killed every year it is worth killing thousands to prevent it?

Or, if not, why not?

It seems to me,thatpro-lifers appear to be motivated by a combination of religious fanaticsm and anti-woman bigotry.

Says you what?

BlackShabacka -"It's not some radical claim that a fetus is a human being, it is a scientific fact. Human life begins at conception, that is not my own philosophical or religious belief but a medical fact. A fetus, a nanosecond after being conceived, already has it's own blood type and dna."

It is not ascientific fact that a fetus is a human being. Yes, a fetus is considered human because it has haman DNA, but not a human being (person)because it can't substain life on its own. A fetusis human in potental form of being a "human being" otherwise known as a person.

Keep this in mind. A being is anphysically independent entity. An entity is a seperate bioligically independently existing thing that breeds, digest, moves lives on ITS OWN.

Regarding women and their rights,a fetus grows inside of the womans womb becasue of her permission, not because its the right of the fetus. I have never heard of the right to live inside another person as an parasite.

The fetus cant be known as an individual because it is an culster of cells and tissue that are totally dependent on its host "the mother." Yes, it has potential to become a human being but, its like saying that a sperm-egg combination has rights like a human being. A sperm-egg combination IS NOT A HUMAN BEIGN, JUST LIKE ITS FETUS PROTOTYPE. Pre-birth (sperm-egg,embryo,fetus)is a tissue cluster, a part living in and on a womans body JUST LIKE AN ORGAN, whis is made up of tissue, which is a cluster of cells. It can become a person but it is not a person.

The diffrence lies within the potential and the actual. NOTE -DONT NOT MIX UP THE POTENTIAL AND THE ACTUAL!!!!!An acorn has thedna of an oak tree and the potential of an oak tree but is not an actualtree. No one says letsbuild ourhouse outta acorns. A waterfall is potential electric energy BUT IS NOT ACTUALL ELECTRIC ENERGY. No one says lets try to power a TV by plugging it into a waterfall.If you do mix up the two and act on logic you can say hmmmm an adult is a potential corpse, so lets bury him alive orcut him up and do some research. An adult becoming a corpse is diffrent from saying that he is a corpse.

If you cry or have sympathy for aborted fetuses, then gentlemen cryforthe potential humans that you waste while you jerk-off or have intercourse with a condom.

Black Shabaka...you mention your sympathy with rape and incest victims. If you believe abortion is murder and that pre-birth should grow into a potential human, surely you should believe that that potential human (the fetus of the rape victim of course)should have a right to become a human experiencing life. Simply, if you believe that abortion is murder, you should have no excuse to excuse anyone under any circumstances to do it. I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT YOU DONT BELIEVE IN CAPITAL PUNISHMENT!!!!!!!!

You are obviously a diffrent thinker than me, but I am going to keep it real. If I was a woman and the doctor told me that my kid would become serverly retarded in a wheelchair at the 4th month of my pregnancy, I will abort it. Why should I suffer? Why should the kid suffer? You mention great black learders which is true, but what about serialkillers,rapists,pedophiles etc. The majority of people like these come about because ofa lack a parenting. Mabey the contraception didnt work for those mothers. As for me if I was pre birth and I could forsee my future in jail because of me commiting rape or murders then I would wish that I have become aborted, because in my world life sucks and I had no proper guidanceso I must go and f**k it up.

PPL GET GET AT ME I WANT OPINIONS/FACTS ESPECIALLY FOROM WOMEN.

What would REALLY happen if abortion was banned?


I can recall abortion on demand had been available to women (Any States) for most of my adult life. Re the pending SCOTUS appointment of Miers (or someone conservative) to the court, if conservatives do get the majority needed to overturn Roe V Wade, and if it is then overturned what's next?

I know this sounds a bit basic, but available abortion has been a part ofour cultural landscape, and I'm not sure how it's being made illegal would be implemented.
What do you think would happen on a practical political and cultural level if it was overturned?

BlackShabaka - A fetus is in fact a human being with it's own human dna and bloodtype, not the potential of anything. A man's 'little soldiers' or a womans eggs won't grow by themselves, a fetus will if interrupted. Just because a fetus is dependent on it's mother doesn't make it less of a human being, few people will deny a 4 month old fetus is a human being and killing it would be wrong, at one point did it 'officially' become a person?

Every reproductive cell in your body and a females body carrys a diffrent DNA code. If not, then allsibilings with the same parents will look the same. PLEASE KEEP THIS IN MIND FOR FUTURE SAKE, ALL CELLS ARE LIVING. From your white blood cells to your muscle cells. Cellslike muscle and heart cellsfrom tissue which form parts in your body. In the previous response I never said that an individual sperm and an individual egg is the potential of anything however, the term spermegg was used. A spermegg (the mixture of a sperm and an egg right after conception) has the potential to become a fetus but is not a fetus. A spermegg is DEFINATELY NOT A HUMAN BEING. The jacking off comment was a scarstic comment to poke your logic. Moments before conception, in a womans body,all of your 4 million or so sperm do have the potential to become a spermegg combination, that turns into anembryo, then afetus, then a human being andsadly a corpse.That potential is truly there if it happens.Since we are dealing with 1 out of 4mil or more it becomes more ofa possibliity. Ex#1. 10 men are capable of becoming VP of a company but only 1 can become VP. Those 10 chosen men are potential VP's if and onlyif their hard work and ethic are favored. At the moment they are not VP's only until 1 is chosen from his hard work and ethic.

A fetus certainlydoes NOT grow by itself. A fetus grows by the assistance of tissue shead from the uterus and other nutrients from the umbilical cord. This is the main reason why women DONT get periods during pregnancy. If the mother (the host) dies the fetus CAN NOT grow on its own. However, if the mother of a 5yr old kid dies, he can still survive and grow on his own. THE 5YR OLD KID IS A EXAMPLE OF A BEING. PLEASE GO BACK AND READ THE DEFINITION OF A BEING. For your sake, "A being is anphysically independent entity. An entity is a seperate bioligically independently existing thing that breeds, digest, moves lives on ITS OWN." A fetus certialy CAN NOTpreform these functions on its own. A 5yr old can certainly perform these functions on his own. A robot, like a fetus, does not generate energy to perform functions on its own. The two has to be plugged in to an external source of energy. They CAN NOT MANAFACTURE THEIR OWNENERGY.A being, say the 5yr old kid, can breathe, digest and move by itself, by and fromits own energy. The 5yr old kid is not plugged into another persons body or piece of technology, like a fetus or an android. The 5yr old lives apart as an seperate ENTITY (SEE DEFINITION AGAIN TO REFRESH YOUR MIND) not a parasite.

BlackShabaka-A human being, a child is not a 'parasite', it has a right to life and I'm glad my mother never aborted me. All medical evidence points to human life beginning at conception, it is your own interpretation that a fetus isn't "really a person". When a man and a woman even look at each other in a certain way, there's a potential human being, once they have intercorse and create one, that child will grow independently of their decisions or actionsunless they deliberatly inteferere with his growth.


Your mom simply didnt have to abort you for you not to exist. If a diffrent sperm entered her egg, then I would have been speaking to another person. A human beign is not a parasite because it can substain life own its own. A fetus however is a parasite since it can't substain life on its own and needs a constant souce of external energy to survive. For your sake go look up the definition of a parasite. Some parasites are harmful some are not. I am not denying that there isnt life at conception. Why? Simply because cells are living. The cells that make up the tissue for your heart are living cells. Ifyou seperateone cell from the heart, thenit is not a heart but considered a part of a heart. But, if those cells are put together in ideal conditions they can POTENTIALLY BECOME A HEART. See the logic? A catapellar is potentially a butterfly BUT IS NOT A BUTTERFLY. No one goes around calling a butterfly a catapellarand a catepellar abutterfly. This goes back to my point OF THE ACTUAL AND THE POTENTIAL. This is why a fetus is called a fetus and not a human being. You want to know what a dead fetus is called? A DEAD FETUS. Do you want to know what a dead spermegg combination is called? A DEAD SPERM EGG COMBINATION. NOT A DEAD EMBRYO OR A DEAD FETUS OR A DEAD HUMAN BEING. Why do you think that abortion is legal? If the fetus was a human being... then I doubt that abortion would be legal after all SINCE MURDER IS DEFINED AS THE UNLAWFUL KILLING OF ONE HUMAN BEING BY ANOTHER HUMAN BEING. Or a flock of crows

BlackShabaka -You are truly, without doubt, a sick and compassionless human being if you would abort your child just because he/she would be retarded. What makes you think the retarded "suffer", just because they're embarassing toUS doesn't mean they hate the condition they're in, they're not aware of it. That's a pathetic point anyways because any life is better then none (w/in reasonable bounds, like constant unbearable pain), I'd rather exist in some pain then not. I'll never understand that "he/she will have a hard life, let me just kill him to spare him of it", lets see and eventually he/she will die"anyways". Wait until he/sheis18and then letthem commit suicide before you take it upon yourself toarrogantly decide whatquality of life is worth living or not.

Who ever told you thatI thoughtthat the retarded suffer because the US does not accept them? They will suffer because they are severly handicapped and need constant assistance.Who told you that the US dosent accept them? Black ppl werent accepted in American society. Did blacks not suffer as slaves??? If you want to condemn me so badly then mention the millions of slaves who threw their children with themselvesoverboard to escape the projected hard life. According to you they should let their kids live till they are 18 till the parents arrogantly decide what the quality of life is worth it or not. The quality of life is a vague definition which varies from person to person. Thus, a woman has the right to dispose of any protoplasam, or tissue (the fetus) simply because its her womb, the fetus is there by her permission, its a part of her, and its most definately not a human being. Therefore she has a right to do what ever she can concerning the future of herself and her fetus. As I previously mentioned. I have never heard of the right to live inside of another creture. Especially as a parasite.

Blackshabaka - That is an unbelievable arguement to me, everyone is gonna laugh and smileonce in their lives, I can't even grasp that,imagine Antwone Fisher going backin time and asking his mother to abort him. Why do you think pro-lifers are pro-life just to piss off women, likethere's no possible way in hell they couldhave empathy and compassion for the unborn child.

Im pretty sure that the slaves laughed once in their lives. Imagine Hitler and all the evil white men who had slaves aborted. If the death of your mother was caused by a person with no true guardians in his life... then imagine that murder aborted. Imagine that rapist who ruined some girls lifeaborted. In Islam a rapist is eaually considered as a murder and put to deathbecause hekilled a part of that woman or man he raped.If every one was aborted then there will be no human life. Since every one was not aborted you will have human beings who mean good and bad. IfBooker T was aborted, then you would probably have some oneelse who would have been good as him or even better. A lot of pro lifers are ignorant religious bigots surrounded by a limitedand a thick wall of a thing called organized religion.

Heres a question. If a husband and wife decides not to have kids what is the chance of a soul (if you believe in one)coming into existance? I say 0

If your mother had a life threatning muscledisease and it depended on a dead fetus stem cells, would you accept it for your mother? If you do and believe in abortion then you are twisted.

Blackshabakka mentioned abortion being justified for rape victims. From his arguement I could have sworn that the subject of concern was the potential human being. Not the mother. The kid of a rapist can enjoy life, can he? Whats the diffrence between the retarded kid in the wheelchair and the kid of a rapist. I would say that theretarded kid is more handicapped.The point is, if a pregrancy was unplanned resulting in a possible undesirable future for the mother and the kid, then she should have the right to do what ever she fells concerning her unborn. Now to work