they were discussing about that Historian who said that Jews were just blowing it about those Gas chambers..(something that Idont agree with) even though i agree that holocaust hast been made a huge business by some elements such as Weisenthal institute which claims that by year 2025 there will be thousands of Nazi Holocaust survivors in the world

now thousands of holocaust survivors in the year 2025?..i mean ww2 ended in 1945 right?

back to topic

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THERESA VILLIERS MP





Title: Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
Career: Theresa Villiers became an MP at the last general election.
Promoted to the Shadow Cabinet in December 2005, she is one of four women on David Cameron's frontbench team.
A former MEP, Theresa Villiers was a barrister before being elected to the European Parliament in 1999.

this London conservative MP makes me feel that David Cameron's cONSERVATIVEhave a secret agenda ..

You can watch again:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...me/4742468.stm




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http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstatv.htm

[align=center]Selected Death Tolls for Wars, Massacres and Atrocities Before the 20th Century
Page 2

[align=center]List of Recurring Sources[/align]

[align=center]Alphabetical Index[/align]

[align=center][Support This Site][/align]
Our ignorance of history makes us libel our own times. People have always been like this. -- Gustave Flaubert[/align]
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my calculation is that for every million people who lived in the 20th Century, some 45,000 died by violence.]
[*]Table 6.1 lists Annual Warfare Death Rates. The median for the 25 pre-state societies listed is 0.45%. The middle one-third runs from 0.3% to 0.6%. This indicates that if a region had population of, say, 1,000,000 typical primitives, 3,000 to 6,000 of them would be killed in war each year. That comes to about 450,000 (±150,000) per million per century, which nicely fits the 120-160,000 killed per generation in Table 6.2 if we assume some 3 or 4 generations per century.[/list]According to Carl Haub, some 1138 million prehistoric humans were born between 50,000 and 8,000 BCE. According to the above analysis of Table 6.2, 170 million of them would have died in war.

Or instead, we could apply the analysis of Table 6.1. Assuming an average prehistoric population of 3 million, this indicates 4500 KIA each year worldwide, or 189 million for all the years between 50,000 and 8,000 BCE.

For later history, let's assume that from 8000 BCE to 1500 CE, the world's primitive population stayed about the same -- at 5 million. (After all, population growth would be confined to technologically innovative societies -- you know, civilization.) With 0.45% of them dying in war every year, this adds up to another 214 million killed in primitive war.

In total, all this indicates some 400 million people who died in primitive war before the primitives were wiped out or absorbed by civilization. Two caveats, however:

1. This does NOT displace WW2 as the worse thing that people have ever done to each other, because it's not a "thing". It's a category. The proper comparison is not "primitive war" vs. "World War II"; it's "primitve war" vs. "state-level war".
2. Don't you go tacking these 400M onto any kind of "death by government" category, because Keeley (and other anthropologists) specifically describe the societies in this category as "non-state".

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Slavery
[/i]: 3,000 Israelites killed by Moses for worshipping the golden calf.
[*]Numbers 31: After killing all men, boys and married women among the Midianites, 32,000 virgins remain as booty for the Israelites. (If unmarried girls are a quarter of the population, then 96,000 people were killed.) [*]Joshua:

• Joshua 8: 12,000 men and women, all the people of Ai, killed.
• Joshua 10: Joshua completely destroys Gibeon ("larger than Ai"), Makeddah, Libnah, Lachish, Eglon, Hebron, Debir. "He left no survivors."
• Joshua 11: Hazor destroyed. [Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews (1987), estimates the population of Hazor at ?> 50,000]
• TOTAL: if Ai is average, 12,000 x 9 = 108,000 killed.

[*]Judges 1: 10,000 Canaanites k. at Battle of Bezek. Jerusalem and Zephath destroyed. [*]Judges 3: ca. 10,000 Moabites k. at Jordan River. [*]Judges 8: 120,000 Midianite soldiers k. by Gideon [*]Judges 20: Benjamin attacked by other tribes. 25,000 killed. [*]1 Samuel 4: 4,000 Isrealites killed at 1st Battle of Ebenezer/Aphek. 30,000 Isr. k. at 2nd battle. [*]David:

• 2 Samuel 8: 22,000 Arameans of Damascus and 18,000 Edomites killed in 2 battles.
• 2 Samuel 10: 40,000 Aramean footsoldiers and 7,000 charioteers killed at Helam.
• 2 Samuel 18: 20,000 Israelites under Absalom killed at Ephraim.

[*]1 Kings 20: 100,000 Arameans killed by Israelites at Battle of Aphek. Another 27,000 killed by collapsing wall. [*]2 Chron 13: Judah beat Israel and inflicted 500,000 casualties. [*]2 Chron 25: Amaziah, king of Judah, k. 10,000 from Seir in battle and executed 10,000 POWs. Discharged Judean soldiers pillaged and killed 3,000. [*]2 Chron 28: Pekah, king of Israel, slew 120,000 Judeans [*]TOTAL: That comes to about 1,283,000 mass killings specifically enumerated in the Bible. The battle of 2_Chron_13 is so much larger than all the others that we probably should doubt it.[/list][FAQ: "How reliable are these numbers?"]

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Religious Christians: 5,538,000
[*]Quasi-religionists 2,712,000 [*]Mahayana Buddhists: 1,651,000 [*]Hindus: 676,000 [*]Zoroastrians: 384,000[/list][/list][*]Hindu martyrs: 20M [*]Buddhist martyrs: 10M [*]Jewish: 9M [*]Ethnoreligious: 6M [*]Sikh: 2M [*]Baha'i: 1M [*]Other religious martyrs: 5M[/list][*]The book defines martyrs as

1. Believers in Christ (U.O.N.)
2. Who have lost their lives
3. Prematurely
4. In situations of witness
5. As a result of human hostility.

[*]World Christian Trends by Barrett et al: Apparently this book gives more details about martyrdom statistics, but so far, I haven't found it in a library (even our local seminary), and I can't afford to buy it myself. (But see http://gem-werc.org/gd/listings.pdf) Here are some of the major episodes that I've been able to scrounge from websites and articles. Some of my sources have been somewhat ambiguous in their wording, so I honestly don't know whether they mean to say that the Amerindians and Baghdadians, for example, are meant as Christian martyrs or Muslim or Shamanist, or whether the various subclasses who died at Soviet or Nazi hands are already included in the largest number or meant to be added to it.

• Martyrdom at Soviet hands:
  • 1921-50: 15M Christians in prison camps
  • 1950-80: 5M Christians in prison camps
  • Orthodox: 14.5M k. by Stalin, 2.7M of them martyrs (1929-37)
  • Roman Catholics (1925): 1.2M martyrs
• By Mongols
  • 1214: Genghiz Khan massacres 6M Christians: 4M martyrs
  • 1214: Diocese of Herat sacked by Genghiz Khan: 1M
  • 1258: massacre in Baghdad by Hulaku Khan: 1.1M
  • 1358: Tamerlane destroys 15-million-strong Nestorians: 4M martyrs
• Conquistadors kill 15 million Amerindians: 2M martyrs (1560)
• Christians executed by Nazis in death camps: 1M
  • Nazis exterminate 0.5M Gypsies
• Khmer Rouge slaughter 2M (1975)
• Kurds massacre 20,000 Nestorians (1843)
• Massacre of 40,000 Vietnamese Catholics (1970)

[/list][*]The Ottawa Citizen (20 Dec. 1998)

• 15M Christians d. in Soviet prison camps because of their faith.
• citing Paul Marshall, Their Blood Cries Out
  • ca. 400,000 Chinese Christians died during the Cultural Revolution.
  • ca. 100,000 Christians k by Idi Amin (out of 300,000 total k.)
  • Up to 500,000 Rwandan Christians died as witnesses to their faith (out of 700,000 total k.) (1994)

[*]The Ottawa Citizen (6 Feb. 1993)

• Citing D. Barret, Our Globe and How to Reach It
  • 40M Christians martyred throughout history.
  • ca. 24M by secular governments and atheists
  • ca. 8M k. by other Christians

[/list]
FAQ: "How reliable are these numbers?"]

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India
Religious practices outlawed under Wm. Bentinck, r.1828-35

• Suttee (Sati) (from time immemorial to 1829)
  • Sakuntala Narasimhan, Sati: widow burning in India
    • 7941 widows burned alive in the Bengal Presidency, 1815-28
    • According to Rammohun Roy, almost ten times more incidents in Bengal than elsewhere
    • ANALYSIS: This indicates that there were some 8735 (=1.1 x 7941) satis in all of India in 14 years, or around 62,400 in a century. Naturally, this should be adjusted for population changes, shifting religious traditions, etc., but it does point to a century total numbered in the tens of thousands rather than the hundreds of thousands or mere thousands.
• Thuggee (Thagi) (13th C. to ca. 1838)
  • 13 Oct. 2001 Toronto Star: 1M people strangled. (Points out that some modern scholars doubt the full, legendary extent of the cult, perhaps even its existence. This debate has quashed the publication of a new book, The Wayfarers: Human Sacrifice Throughout Time And Around The World by Daniel Wood, which is too bad because you can never have too many children's books about human sacrifice.)
  • 6 Jan. 2001 Birmingham Post: Worst known serial killer in history was Indian Thug Behram, who strangled at least 931 victims in the Uttar Pradesh district of India 1790-1840
  • Kevin Rushby (Children of Kali: Through India in Search of Bandits, the Thug Cult and the British Raj (2002)) considers the Thugs a myth.
  • 14 May 2005 Daily Telegraph (London) review of Thug: the True Story of India's Murderous Cult by Mike Dash: "James [Sleeman] calculated that Thugs had killed 50,000 people a year for up to 700 years, [but] Dash arrives at a more reasonable figure of perhaps 50,000 victims in total."
  • Michael Newton, Holy Homicide (1998)
    • British authorities est. 40,000 Thug-related homicides in 1812 alone.
    • 4,500 Thugs convicted, and 110 executed, 1830-48
  • George Bruce, The Stranglers: The cult of Thuggee and its overthrow in British India (1968)
    • 40,000 travellers died in India in 1812, "as indeed they had done every year that records had been kept."
    • Estimated 4-5,000 Thugs in India, early 19thC
    • Individual tallies
      • Thug Rumzam: 604 killings in 21 years
        • He led gangs of 30-40, and saw 80-90 murders/year
      • Thug Buhram: 931 killings in 40 years
      • One gang of 125 in 3 months of 1831 murdered 108 victims.
      • Another gang of 60 in 8 months of 1831 murdered 201 victims.
      • unnamed gang of 50 members in Jubbulpore Dist.
      • Thug Feringeea spent some time with one gang of 100, another gang of 150.
    • In one grove, randomly selected as a campsite by Capt. Sleeman, the Brits found 17 bodies from 3 different attacks.
  • Not-quite-scholarly sources:
    • Movie reviews for The Deceivers
      • 3 Oct. 1988 Toronto Star: 2M murders
      • 2 Sept. 1988 Bergen Record: 2M
    • Wm Saffire, "On Language", NYT 23 May 1999: ½M+
  • ANALYSIS
    • The simplest way of estimating total Thug killings is to multiply the only fairly complete, well-documented number (40,000/yr in 1812) by the 600 years of activity = 24 million, which leaves most people shaking their heads in disbelief. Twenty-four million based on a single statistic? That can't be right, can it?
    • So, then, most people drop the idea of attaching a number, and just declare that the Thugs killed "millions". Later estimates then translate "millions" conservatively: "over a million", "two million or more", like that.
    • Another approach would be to take Bruce's estimate that, on average, each Thug went on ten hunting expeditions during his lifetime and participated in ten attacks on each expedition. That makes an average of 100 murders per Thug. The approximately 4,500 Thugs at work in the early 19th C. would then be responsible for 450,000 murders all told. With each generation of Thugs having a productive life of about 33 years (ages 17-50), that means that each century would see 3 generations (1,350,000 murders/century). In 600 years, that would come to 8.1 million.
    • An even more complicated calculation would be to figure the average number of killings per year per Thug
      • Well, we only have 2 specific lifetime totals -- Rumzam @ ca. 30/yr and Behram @ ca. 20/yr -- and these are the extrordinary cases.
      • Of the three gangs whose statistics are given
        • 201/60/0.67=5 murders per year per Thug
        • 108/125/0.25=3.5 murders per year per Thug
        • Rumzam's gang: 2-3 murders per year per Thug
      • @ 2 to 5 murders per-year-per-Thug and 4-5,000 Thugs, we get 0.8M to 2.5M killings per century. Picking the mid-factors (3.5 x 4500) we get 1,575,000 in a century, or 9.45M in 600 years.
    • Or, instead, we could approach this from a per-gang average ...
      • The mean size of the gangs listed (or implied) here is about 80.
      • Average number of gangs at work: 4500 Thugs divided into gangs of 80 = 55 gangs ±
      • The mean number of murders per gang per year is about 275. That comes to 15,125 Thug murders per year, or 9,075,000 in six centuries.
  • CONCLUSIONS
    • My various calculations come to 24.0M or 9.5M or 9.1M or 8.1M Thug murders in 600 years, so nine million is a possibilty. But then so is Dash's 50,000, so who knows?

capitalist money madness?

yeah

actually it counts in CMM

but not sure which category should I fix it

so there was a panel discussion and some black intellectuals sat on their hands as the issue of the slave trade was brought up?



I can't watch the video so this is what I've pieced together from the thread and link....





if the AGREED to be on the show......they should n't have been afraid to speajk on that topic.....



I hate when people who are given a forum refuse to use it to educate people.....





I don't expect others to feel the pain of my ancesors, empathize or care.......



but that won't stop me from answering the question if posed..

How many blacks on here will defend her, as they did the freedom of speechgarbage onfew weeks ago?

11 million plus is nothing to her, and her elk..........Ok.......

The Queen bless her once said:



"You have to remember it was legal then"

Question time is always the same. The polititians get shown up by audience members (a young Oxford student rightly called her comment ignorant) but they don't listen. They stubbornly stand by their opinion, no matter how many people there have rubbished it with fact.

Obviously she spouted some bs last night. Theresa's heart is understandably with the Jewish people (her people and her constituents) but it looks like she got carried away with herself and then felt the need to stand her ground. Obviously she ought to know better but she's a polititian, I can't name one that I trust or believe in.

yeah and you had those Black people sitting there saying nothing

it was really embrassing for a white student to correct her while black people were just sitting there saying nothing

welcome to Britainconfused2