Well, after reading how Happiness was related to a recent victim, this one is just as close if not closer to home for me. Anyone who has read my comments in threads like being between a rock and a hard place, faking it for the children, do your children have the right to know, and others, may be able to piece a puzzle together and see this was a tragedy waiting to happen.

Got the phone call today and the victim was my bona fide bredrins first son. Oh my days, it doesn't get crueller than this and speaking to the dad, the really scary thing is when he got the call it was a call that psychologically he'd been preparing for....for a while now. And believe me, nobody tried harder to prevent this happening than the dad. I remember him saying some months back what more can he really do but he didn't give in and was trying to the very end.

And it also reinforces that for all the talk and opinions we can share on a chat forum, the realities of dealing with living a situation like this in real life on a day to day basis are a lot more complicated than a news headline might suggest. I would even go as far to say for the powers that be, correcting the ills of society takes too much time, effort and resources and it's a lot less work to bury one and incarcerate the other.

All I can say is when a man talks about raising his kids, know the difference between raising boys and supporting (financing) boys. Our youths are worth more than money and bread!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6673143.stm

Teenager dies after being stabbed A teenager died after being stabbed during a street fight in south London, police have said. The 18-year-old was stabbed in the Parchmore Road area of Thornton Heath at around 2230 BST on Friday.
He was taken to Mayday Hospital but doctors pronounced him dead shortly after 2300 BST.
A 16-year-old was arrested in connection with the stabbing, and two other men were being held by the Metropolitan Police.

My sympathy goes out to you and the family who've lost another too soonblk2hug

So sad. May his soul rest in peace.

Rest in Peace. Yet another future Doctor, Lawyer, President... has an untimely demise. This is not good.

R.I.P

South London

again....

RiP to the young brother

Incognito wrote:
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@ Incognito - I am so sorry to hear of this. I am just, personally, at a loss to understand this madness. I cannot imagine what I would do in your friend's shoes and I am sure he was prepared...yet not prepared.

sorry...

Happiness - well I was just speaking to him and he said he was expecting something but in all honesty not something as final as this..maybe a visit to the hospital with his son critical but pulling through. If you ever know the dynamics involved that culminated in this death it's just pure madness and it hasn't finished here.

I told the dad if this feels close to me I can't imagine how it feels for him...I can only guess it must feel like it was him himself who died - but ironically, in a numbing way the last four years or so has almost strengthened his resolve. And for me this is the real tragedy, it's almost like the death is a consequence of so many other things going worng with our families and our communities that the death itself is no longer the main issue..it's like an expected consequence where the madness behind it is where all the attention is now focussed. It reminds me of when Toyin of Ligali was in debate with some asians after the fiasco in Birmingham a while back, there was all this going on about asian and black communities when Toyin had to say stop, what are yo talking about, someone has died here.

Up until 14 years old Dwaine (who died) was a model son. I and many can tell you the children of that family were impeccably mannered. Visitors would be shocked at how polite and courteous all the children were. Dwaine was a year ahead in subjects like French but it's like things literally changed over night...and four years later he's dead.

But going back to certain realities of how things actually are on a day to day basis in these scenarios. A big reality is that so many of these children live a lifetime in as short a time as four years. You here some stories and it's like you're hearing tales from 30-40 year old men. Many of these children think they are more mature than their parents...there are boys thinking they are bigger than their dads because not even their dads have been to jail yet. It's like while growing up, the things the parents would warn them about like prison are meaningless because now they have been there done that and are wearing the t-shirt...and as a consequence it's like there is nothing the parents can tell these children anymore.

I grew up with one brotha who could switch into murder mode at the drop of a hat but even he's seen the error of his ways and changed things round. He has sons on the wrong side of the law and when he tried to pull one up about it, for all the dads past tales of what he used to get up to in his time and where it leads, the son said to him, that's old time bad man stories, you lot can't really test us bad man of today. When you are dealing with youths who see this as a way of life, accept the reduced life expectancy and even more can philosophize with you toe to toe in defence of it, only then will you appreciate how much we as adults and how much the system with their materialistic money monkey madness has failed them.

To think, one minute a man is trying to find somewhere to live thinking the whole world is against him then the next minute he is preparing to bury his son. I told him I believe in equilibrium, that life balances itself out, that 7 years of famine is replaced by seven years of harvest but at this proximity the reality is many lives will never be the same again...there is no harvest that can feed that crippling malnourishment of your soul. After something like this you look to the good times in the past and resign yourself to the fact that those days were as good as it's ever going to get.

@ Incognito - your post was very moving....and yet at the heart of your post is the question: what changed?

What made a model son of 14 change in such a way that he is dead 4 year later.

I am not asking you to speak specifically about your friend's son -in fact, I would even say that you should be careful what you post here about the case. But in a general sense, what is happening with our young people that is leading to these types of deadly confrontations?

I truly believe that if you are a black male teenager, it is safer to be in America than in the London right now.

Just my perception.

So sad

RIP

My heart truely goes out

Incognito, sorry to hear of your loss........I can't even begin to comprehend how the father must feel..its just soo heartbreaking...

I also share Happiness's curiousity what happened, I think it would be valuable to discuss what CHANGED, especially as we are bound to hear from the renta quote mob, shouting for role models. and for parents to do more.....

It seems however that in this case that charge can't be levelled....

Happiness/Kunjufu - just came from the hospital/mortuary to see the body. Indeed I can't say too much here especially it being a murder enqiry but as far as what changed I can only say eventually he became a product of 'the' environment and once a product, things the everday person might see as trivial can actually compound the situation creating a snowball effect. And furthermore, what is an 'environment' to some is home to others which is a completely separate dimension with different rules to the home you share with your parents and siblings.

I asked that very question some years back and going by what was said I kind of drew on my own experience and thought the reality is, being in an advanced class learning French, at that age he probably felt lonely...looking around the classroom asking where are all his 'homeboys' to the degree he probably felt more at home with his peers on the street - there he feels less of an odd one out.

I remember some time ago suggesting we take a trip to Kenya and climb mount Kilamanjaro or something - my thinking was the experience might change the perspective of some of our lost youths - this was based on how humbling I found my visit to the Grand Canyon and how miracles of nature can make you feel so insignificant. Again the feedback really reinforces the reality of the minds you are dealing with...you'd be better of spending the money on some play station games simply because minds at that stage are not ready for humbling...in extreme cases you almost have to appease the mentality and hope it comes out good in the end.

This conversation lead to the realisation of further realities of how sad our lives are where as hard working parents we have to think two or three times as to whether it's 'safe' to buy our children a friggin games cartridge for fear of the potential negative influence....and the more we get absorbed in these ridiculous realities the more they soon become normal.

I like to think that it's times like this that families are tight but then I always look back to the Stephen Lawrence murder and how it made the parents end up divorced. But if nothing else the dad is a soldier, he has to be. It's quite ironic that me and him were both going through domestic dramas at the same time and one thing we both appreciated is that we can't let it get the better of us because we still need to be around to help others going through worse.