I was just curious as I feel as though I have been on the receiving end of abuse (mostly physical), I grew up as a child think that being beaten for doing somethig wrong for black families was just a normal thing. And I'm not suffering from this because these traumatic experiences have bought about anxiety and depression problems.

Arguments have ended in mental/physical violence occurring towards me, but where do you think the line separates disciplining a child and abusing a child?

Where is the line?

This whole thing in the black community with being almost proud of giving your child a beating is something I find rather sickening. Children do and can step out of line but even then I find it wrong to lay physical harm on a child with no defense. Beating a child is basically taking out your frustrations and anger. Now when I hear of beatings I always thought it was 2, 3 licks with belt on a bare bottom or several smacks with the hand on the side. It's just plain wrong and I hate it. No one should ever beat a child

Hell no!, but can see where people do. I've been close, and have made physical contact but nothing I would call a beating...babylon may beg to differ. I asked my first son if I have ever beaten him, he says once....I still try to convince him that wasn't a beating. I can honestly say if my son needs discipline, beating him would actually make him worse. Still, I do find myself having to tell him that I'm trying my hardest not to beat him...I guess in an attempt to make him appreciate how conscious I am of not wanting to. A parent needs skills and beatings are usually a reflection of their own failings.

My second son is too fragile to even consider a beating. Though I've warned both my sons that now the babymother is in control, they should expect to get beaten. I've seen her use the slipper to get her point across and heard her threaten the shoe will be next....makes you wonder what will follow the show when that fails - though I wouldn't go as far to say she abuses them...the abuse part comes with the children's diet

My children have been through a divorce and all that entails and my first son needed a blood transfusion when he was born- in my eyes, they've had their beating already. In an ironic twist, my children come to me for comfort when they've crossed the wrath of the babymother. Them boys are my best friends and if anyone shares my interpretation of what a friend is, they'll know what that means to me.

Still, I've seen enough to appreciate if I had them 24/7 I would need to be at my utmost level of consciousness to avoid beating them...I guess in the same way I've managed to avoid beating the mother

Hmm I wrote a blog on this a while ago. I used to firmly believe in it but have recently begun thinking differently. Too many people I see beating and yelling harshly at young kids as a first impulse. Disciplining kids for merely annoying them when they haven't even tried anything else. Or putting kids in positions where they're bound to misbehave and the overreacting when they do. I feel uneasy about it these days. Especially about what it's doing to the generation of angry and resentflul teenagers walking around.

Watcher - interestingly I know many adults who will openly admit that a good beating from their parents actually saved them from going astray. I've heard equal arguments suggesting that many of the stray kids today grew up in environments with minimal trappings i.e. minimal toys, fashionable clothes and holidays - yet there are still kids who have gone astray who apparently had 'everything'.

Again, it's like the argument for sending children to church...most of my career criminal friends all went to the same church as me. But yeah, I see your point on this beating thing being seen as the first alternative. I told one friend that I have no problem telling my children sorry for something I believe I have done which I have regretted. He couldn't believe it and said a parent should never tell their children sorry...show them how sorry you are with the belt. He then went on to talk about how he used to 'apologise' by tearing into his sons skin with a whipping....still, his son is now in university and is a model citizen.

There is a saying which goes 'I'm going to have to do you something to prevent you harming yourself' - for many, that something is a beating. remember a short documentary on this featuring some Caribbean parents where one father and daughter where there talking about the beatings given out and received and how much now they both appreciate (especially the daughter) how much it was done out of love. Guess that's what they call tough love though in many cases I wouldn't rule out the legacy of slavery.

I'm not against all physical discipline. I was disciplined regularly, the thing is my parents tried other things and I was not beaten for getting in the way or simply being a kid. @ incognito, that's how I was beaten too. Not with apologies lol (never that) but always explanations and big talk about whys and so on. That old one about saving you from yourself and doing it because I love you were big with my dad too *chuckles* and that imo is a proper way to do things. I don't knock that at all and I would probably raise mind the same way. The thing is I respected my parents not because they beat me but because they spoke to me. My behaviour was more curtailed by not wanting to upset or dissapoint my mum rather than fearing her beatings. How long will that last anyway since by 15 I was bigger than her? Beating is sometimes necessary but you need different solutions.

I disagree strongly with Vezz however. I think not that those kids weren't beaten enough but more likely beaten TOO much. Look at modern parents, they don't know how to talk to or communicate with children. Some expect the same reason and logic in a four year old that an adult has. When they don't get it and the kid acts like a kid they beat them. You take a kid to the supermarket and beat him when he reaches for a sweet. What do you expect four year olds to do?(Katt Williams).

All the people I know who work in schools say that the discipline problems are there from the kids are young and they're already damaged by the time they in school. They only respond to contorted angry faces or serious angry yelling because that is the only line of discipline at home. The first thing their paresnt do is beat them or yell at them. And the kind of yelling I've heard directed at kids makes me shocked. Teachers can't reason or talk to them because that isn't serious to them. Only rage works and that's temporary since they know teachers can't hit them (the only thing they know) so are therefore impotent in such childrens eyes.

The frequency and intensity of violence against children is ridicolous today and the thing is like lilsoulful1 said, we take pride and congratulate ourselves on it. Countless stand up acts, reinforce the amusing idea that the more serious the beating the better parent you had. It's bollocks. A beating is supposed to be a last resort, not something you do because your kid annoyed you and you don't have an idea of how to talk to them.

People say they got beat and it never did them any harm, fair enough but how our adult parents beat us and how todays children parents (you need to think about this) are beating their kids are very different things. You don't learn respect or learn not to do things from a beating. You learn to conceal things, to be angry and that violence is an acceptable currency.

Vezz/Watcher - I've always been one to work at extremes..all or nothing and when it comes to words I don't mix them. If I'm talking to my son again that will be at extremes. I'll tell him up front if he takes liberties with options 1 and 2 then option 3 is to box him across his face. Some may see this as abusive talk but I really see it as re-emphasizing how much it's ME who doesn't want to go to option 3.

I still say the need for discipline is few and far between the times of general happiness...my boys know when I'm angry directly as a consequence of knowing when I am happy. Many children grow up knowing only the angry side of their parents (stressful life) indeed many of my friends will tell you the only time they came into contact with their dads was beating time.

I fully agree the concept of punishment is what needs to be understood and this does not need to be delivered in an angry way. It can be taught just like any other 'classroom' discipline. Saying that, I was talking with my first boy telling him he has been naughty so asked him what punishment he wants, to lose his toys or to get a beating......he said he'd prefer the beating


Personally I've always had this streak of conscious regret anytime I've dished out physical violence which is why I know it just isn't me. I can be violent but my conscience doesn't let me live it down so for the most part all I need to do is think about how my conscience will burn me after I do the deed. I've been like this as far back as I can remember. If I had a fight in school and beat someone up or bullied them, the feeling of remorse was quite overwhelming - so in general, for me beating is not an option, even if I felt it was necessary. Not really knowing the inner workings of my consciousness, some people have interpreted this as cowardice.

Even so, if pushed hard enough, I wouldn't rule out doing the deed and accepting the consequences...but that would still be a battle between me and my conscience as opposed to me and the other person. I guess I see it as a personal test of discovery...in this case, knowing your limit. In the case of child discipline, I'd go as far to say this test is happening before the actual disciplining of the child. It has always been my belief that we believe we are ready made parents simply because we are adults but the reality is it's your children who teach YOU how to be parents!

Vezz - think you highlight an important issue of how one form of discipline will work for one child and another form for the other child(ren). A significant factor here is how the children can interpret this as favouritism and how this affects their own consciousness and feeling of family-memebr worth.

You can argue and say this is why some parents treat all their children the same and I'm sure you've all heard about parents who punish the other children when one particular child was the naughty one.

As parents ourselves you begin to appreciate that many parents simply done what they thought was right. I respect mine for that as opposed to questioning the actual methods used. Indeed many of the things you try to teach your own children you soon realise it's actually food for when they themselves have their own.

I don't have any children but i'm not a big fan of beating. I did get a few when i was younger but what i found more effective was when i was told to stand in te corner with my hands straight up and they were not allowed to be bent! also i was once told to stand on one leg and other physically enduring punsihments which left me swetaing and in pain!! now they were harsh.

Vezz - you mentioned hubby. I've come up through the system as a hard working diasporan African. Yeah I can be very opinionated..especially when it comes to women...but MY woman is safe. Now hear this, when it comes to the safety and protection of my children, not even rain water is allowed to catch them. If my children get a cold I've failed as a parent much more them turning out academically dunce and ill-disciplined.

Be it discipline or nurturing, I think this is a good time to mention it is all for the benefit of the children. If you are in a relationship where
one parent sees it as a competition against the other in a battle of oneupmanship then one of you better get the f**k out. Any adult/parent who needs that breaking down to them is not worthy of the name.

Soulunique - the thing that saddens me which is really another indication of a lack of community is when one family want to use how their children came out as a way of earning stripes against their brotherman. If getting discipline out of my child means sending him over to my bredrins family to live for a week or so then so be it. Unfortunately we lack this depth in family and community togetherness.

Growing up, all I heard about was envious parents waiting to see other parents children go to prison or come in with their teenage bellies. Guess it gave them something to talk about in church. Adult pride, the biggest killer of a community!

I wouldn't do the same as what our parents did to us, but fook what society says, if your children are misbehaving they need to get some physical discipline, simple as that. As someone in my late 20s, I'm of the last generation of kids that got some serious licks before all this softy softy bullshit came into play. And YES it did us good!!!!

Babylon's law taking away our right to discipline our children, yet when they run amok you get mother****ers like Phoney Blair telling US (the African community) about what we should and shoudln't be doing and why we're failing at keeping our children in check blah blah blah.

I'm not saying some of our parents didn't go too far at times, lawd knows some of them did.....but look at the state of the African community now compared to what it was back in the 70s and 80s. When I was child you wouldn't even DREAM of back chatting your elders in the street much less your own parents. Nowadays it's a free for all because some of these likkle brats know they can get away with it. You threaten your child with licks and they have the power to dial 999 on you wtf is that????

One thing I've noticed about many African parents lately is that they've taken the easy way out by just not giving a damn altogether. They're a shame to all their parents and grandparents who raised them the total opposite way despite all the odds against them in harsher environments.