alabamagirl,
In my opinion, no. It makes no sense for a person to be pro-black and marry someone from another race. A pro-black person would want to marry another black person and have only beautiful black kids to continue the bloodline. What kind of pro-black person would want kids who look half of what they are? It just makes no sense. There are mulattos who actually look completely white, so our genes are not always dominant. I just can't have kids who don't look black. I'd rather them be albino.

You would rather you child have albinism? I think you better 'read up' and becareful what you say or wish on you offspring in future!
Albinism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Lage sections of the african dispora have some degree of non african blood in them. be it white, indian or chinese. Many afrian carribeans, etc have a mixture of east indian, chinese and eurpean!

African ameriacans, can have native american and european genes. are they all still condidered black africans?

Some of them (AAs, ACs) ''look half of what they are?'' and some mixed race people look like both their parents are african.!Surely how you identify is more important. What if that biriacal person has a child with a afrian, do you consider the child african?

Gmahogany.
I would submit that it is the long OVERDUE questioning/analysis of such unions/predilections and how they may or may not have AFFECTED/AFFECT our movements/agendas, fits into the NEW/TABOO BREAKING category, particularly as it relates to the "sacred cows" of our movements.

There's nothing wrong with questioning how 'unions' or may not have AFFECTED/AFFECT our movements/agendas, but that isnt what's happening here.

Some are questioning 'blackness' and 'motives' because of their own insecure need to bolster their egos.

It reminds of when certain Negroes feel it 's their duty to run up in our faces lecturing us about how we should be more accepting of other people,read white people,(or some other shit that we ALREADY do in abundance

OOOH! He said negroes! Shock horror!I
I personally aint saying be accepting of anyone, just stop bitching on about white people. Do you think the issues in our community are purely down to white people? Just what kind of power do you think they have? They can't do jack Shite without our complience...so it's kind of important that we are all on the same page now....isn't it?

Everyone of them could vanish into thin air and we would still have issues to sort out. So this constant mentioning 'YT' is done by some to prove how 'pro daft' they are. I only mention other races insofar as it is neccessary to prove a point, or take the piss, but unlike many here, I don't think white people are gods.

Or those Negroes who like to run up talking that brand new second hand 'conservative"/pull yourself up by your own bootstraps shit to us,(actually they usually go talk that shit TO white folks ABOUT us,lol), like they're hitting up on something new and novel.

OOOH! He said negroes, AGAIN! Shock horror! Are you getting paid everytime you say negro or something?

So let me get this straight, everyone being responsible for themselves and their actions is conservative thinking? I'm sure the many afircan authors who have sought to promote people taking personal pride in themselves will be surprised to find that they are closet 'conservatives'. and that they are talking shit!
I suppose your hard hitting scheme to make a change involves saying 'YT' and 'NEGROES' on the internet! Wow, revolutionary!

Che Chevara must be kicking himself that the internet wasn't around in his day, all he would of had to do was racially insult his own people (cubans) and everything would change for the better! lol!

No it's not new, but apparently it is not being understood by many. If it were, we wouldn't be in the position we are in...would we? So if it needs to be mentioned again and again and again so be it.

It's kind of like those here who in one post say ''We should be united'' ''then in the vary next post say ''Look at that coon'' or ''those Negroes blah blah...'' They clearly don't understand the depths of why we are in the position we are or why they react in the way they do. And so throw around little phrases and half heartd platitudes for a post then revert back to their ignorance!

I do not however, have much patience for "intellectuals", who don't have enough sense to know the limits of abstract thinking,

There are no limits to abstact thinking, The mind is a muscle and benifits from exercise. The futher you stretch it, the more flexable it becomes.

at the expense of more practical/flesh and blood realities/experiences,(and there are MANY intellectuals who fit that description

I can't speak for others, but I know my posts are practical! But as with all practical matters there has to be theory proping it up.

I also don't have much patience for people who feel compelled to play the Devil's Advocate, for no good reason,
There's allways a good reason to play 'devils advocate', it throws new spin on an issue and helps you to strenghen your beliefs or change them to a more practical one.

Imagine of group of Jews sitting around discussing the Holocaust and it's effects, and some Jewish "intellectual" wants to bust up in the conversation and say: " Umm yeah I just wanted to articulate the abstract/esoteric pros/good points of Hitler's Final Solution(particularly the part about the ovens), lest we miss some grand opportunity for Intellectual exploration/musing/pondering. He'll be lucky if he makes out wherever he is, alive.

Every other race does this, check out some jewish sites, there's (loads on the principles of The Final Solution) It's all 'well and good' sitting about wallowing in self pity, but at some point you have to annalys the thinking and motives of those who would attempt to hold you down, the thoughts and feelings of the community and your own thoughts and feelings. We discuss many view points on slavery and the principles of racism. How does that hurt. No movement will progress on action alone, there has to be a firm foundation to build on.

I think thats what Neferkare means when he mentioned teaching our kids to be cultural critics.

PS the 'ovens' were only used to dispose of the bodies not kill jews.

As to the helter skelter comments made about the Nation of Islam.
I'm not intrested in 'Islamic Studies'
It's not an african religon and was forced on african and africans. It has little benifit for africans as a whole so I don't understand why people seem to think that adapting what little african culture is left to an arabian culture(praticularly when these people are so resistant to europeans doing this!) would be a benifit to us and our movement in ANY way!

That's kind of anti pro african...don't you think?

Either way, I have no intrest in NOI or orthodox islam, it's just another distraction for us!

FIRST thing he (Malcomr X) did was create the Organization of AFro American Unity. A completely SECULAR organization. Why? Because, like his TEACHER, his first instinct/concern was ALWAYS going to be Black folks and he didn't want RELIGION to be a reason for BLACK FOLKS to be falling out with each other. His stance was I'm a Muslim, tha'ts not gonna change, You may be a Christian, but we're not catching hell because of our religions, we're catching hell cause we're Black, so let's put the religion aside and get together and do this.

So what he and you are saying in a long winded way is 'We don't have time to be arguing about crap...let's start moving forward!'' HHHmmm! That's the subject of all my posts really, It's funny how people will rant and rave and come off with all manner of militantcy but they eventually come back to the reality of the situation. WE DONT HAVE TIME FOR CR@P!

So, as I stated MUCH earlier in this thread. My stance was NEVER that the ONLY thing that will make me question a "leader's" pro Black ness is if they marry outside their race,)

While Kujufu used various black politians as examples the actual title of the thread is '' a question: can you be pro Black and still be with a partner from another culture?'' So my posts are directed at the common person. I have little intrest in leaders because they have a bad habbit of getting killed or letting you down. No matter how go a leader, he can only work with the materials he has, and at this moment in time, those materials are all pulling in differnt directions. Any leader that could effect change under those circumstances should be headmaster of Hogworts!

As for the sarcasm towards 'black interlectuals' made by some, if a persons religion is 'thug life' and they practise religiously I can totally understand their contempt for black interlectuals!

stick-upKid
Yep the debate has gone on long enough.

And BTW, to anyone that made a long ass post or quoted a long-ass post - I didn't read ya!

No sure why you bothered posting a post to say you didn't read a post, but no one is holding a gun to your head. If your intrested read if not don't, no need to mention it though!

Many a negro has used the pro black wagon to advance their white selves - pro black and white spouse is a self explanatory contradiction - the word pro is not a compromise.

[size="5"]There's nothing wrong with questioning how 'unions' or may not have AFFECTED/AFFECT our movements/agendas, but that isnt what's happening here.

Some are questioning 'blackness' and 'motives' because of their own insecure need to bolster their egos.

The lionshare of comments in this debate not only centered around Black leaders, but MLK, in particular, so where you get the idea that anyone was overly concerned with what regular,everyday Black folks do in this matter, as impacting on OUR agenda/struggle, is beyond me. Furthermore, I would submit that regular old Black folks,(at least in AMerica), don't struggle with this issue. It's TYPICALLY the so called leaders//intellectual/"pro Black crew set that seem to be more likely to be retarded on this issue. A friend of mine has a whole theory about why that is, and the TRUE underlying motivations of many so called "pro-Black" types. I'll get into that at another time, possibly.



[size="5"]OOOH! He said negroes! Shock horror!I
I personally aint saying be accepting of anyone, just stop bitching on about white people. Do you think the issues in our community are purely down to white people? Just what kind of power do you think they have? They can't do jack Shite without our complience...so it's kind of important that we are all on the same page now....isn't it?

Everyone of them could vanish into thin air and we would still have issues to sort out. So this constant mentioning 'YT' is done by some to prove how 'pro daft' they are. I only mention other races insofar as it is neccessary to prove a point, or take the piss, but unlike many here, I don't think white people are gods.
[color="Red"]

I'm a she, and who here is "bitching on about white people"? Who here has stated that the issues in our communities are "purely down to white people? You are ASSUMING that just because there are Black people who think that "pro Black" leaders/advocates ought to marry/date Black folks, that WE must be obsessed with white folks? Interesting twist of logic. We're obsessed with Crackers, not the so called "pro Black" people on a "pro Black" Board, who are distressed and disturbed that others don't share their predilection/preoccupation with dating/marrying/phucking white folks or advocating the dating/phucking/marrying of white folks,lol.

Once again, I'm always amused by Negroes who swear they are schooling the lowly, heathen Black masses when they are SO not. No one here is CONSTANTLY mentioning white people. To the extent that whites and other races are being mentioned, it probably has to do with the fact that the title of the thread is: Can U be Pro Black and have a White or non Black partner", or something like that. Makes it kind of difficult NOT to mention whites and other non Blacks,lol.

/COLOR]
OOOH! He said negroes, AGAIN! Shock horror! Are you getting paid everytime you say negro or something?

Oooh, I'm a She, and no I'm not getting paid to say Negroes. I just think it's UTTERLY appropos in certain instances. The same way I think words like CRACKER and ******, are utterly appropos in certain instances. You got a problem with that? If so, I'll be sure and INCREASE my usage of the words in question,lol.

So let me get this straight, everyone being responsible for themselves and their actions is conservative thinking? I'm sure the many afircan authors who have sought to promote people taking personal pride in themselves will be surprised to find that they are closet 'conservatives'. and that they are talking shit!
I suppose your hard hitting scheme to make a change involves saying 'YT' and 'NEGROES' on the internet! Wow, revolutionary!

Err, no genius. It's NOT conservative thinking. It's pretty much always been the DEFAULT stance of Black folks, in America. It's the same shit that Elijah Muhhamad and the NOI and other Black groups have been preaching for damn near a hundred years. More than that, if you throw in people like Booker T. Washington. My point was, that to this certain ilk of NEGRO, it's conservative thinking, they feel compelled to allign themselves with the white Conservative RACIST agendaS, and come talk shit to the rest of us, like they discovered the wheel or something.

First of all, I don't use the term YT, so I don't know where you got that from. My white person word of choice is CRACKER, get it straight. I don't use any of the words I use, because I think they are "revolutionary". I use them because again, I think they are UTTERLY appropos, in some instances. Beyond that, They succeed in getting certain NEGROES panties in a bunch, for what reason I do not know. So apparently they generate some kind of power/effect. Who knew? LOL.

Che Chevara must be kicking himself that the internet wasn't around in his day, all he would of had to do was racially insult his own people (cubans) and everything would change for the better! lol!

I'm not racially insulting my own people. You haven't ever seen me in INSULT mode. The way you're having a hissy fit about words like NEGRO, I reckon you'd have a out and out nervous breakdown, if I REALLY took it there,lol.

No it's not new, but apparently it is not being understood by many. If it were, we wouldn't be in the position we are in...would we? So if it needs to be mentioned again and again and again so be it.

Again, I have no problem with it being mentioned(although I hardly think the people on this Board are the appropriate target audience, a little presumptous and preaching to the choir-esque, wouldn't you say?), groups like the NOI talk about that very thing INCESSANTLY, as well as implement PROGRAMS with that ethos that have produced RESULTS. I respect them to the fullest. The difference is, they don't CONDESCEND to Black folks and have their tongue up white people's behind, while doing it. UNLIke some other NEGROES who shall remain nameless.

It's kind of like those here who in one post say ''We should be united'' ''then in the vary next post say ''Look at that coon'' or ''those Negroes blah blah...'' They clearly don't understand the depths of why we are in the position we are or why they react in the way they do. And so throw around little phrases and half heartd platitudes for a post then revert back to their ignorance!

I'm very much for unity, but I'm not for unity with people who don't share my priorities/agenda/core outlook/beliefs. I don't give a damn if they are as Black as the street pavement. It's not necessary. There is no such thing as that kind of unity anyway. Groups of like minded people with the same interests/agenda get together and act, other folks come along and get on board when they see which way the wind is blowing. That's true of everything from the AMerican Revolution to the Civil Right's Movement.

There are no limits to abstact thinking, The mind is a muscle and benifits from exercise. The futher you stretch it, the more flexable it becomes.

There are limits to the PRACTICAL APPLICATION of abstract thinking/theories. Of course that only matters if you're actually concerned with PRACTICAL application and results, which a lot of intellectuals are not. which is why they render themselves utterly useless in many instances. You're right, there are no limits to abstract/ivory tower thinking, as long as it stays in the ivory tower. That's where some folks get it twisted.

I can't speak for others, but I know my posts are practical! But as with all practical matters there has to be theory proping it up.

If that is so, than you should not have taken my comments as being directed towards you. Who the cap fits.......


[size="5"]There is allways a good reason to play 'devils advocate', it throws new spin on an issue and helps you to strenghen your beliefs or change them to a more practical one.

Nope, I disagree. There is not always a good reason to advocate for the Devil. No sane,self respecting Jewish person should ever be saying: "Well, Hitler had a point",lol.


Every other race does this, check out some jewish sites, there's (loads on the principles of The Final Solution) It's all 'well and good' sitting about wallowing in self pity, but at some point you have to annalys the thinking and motives of those who would attempt to hold you down, the thoughts and feelings of the community and your own thoughts and feelings. We discuss many view points on slavery and the principles of racism. How does that hurt. No movement will progress on action alone, there has to be a firm foundation to build on.

I don't have to check out Jewish sites. I am quite familiar with Jews and how they do, and it doesn't REMOTELY resemble what Negroes do, ESPECIALLY in reference to their enemies and what was done to them. If you find a few talking the same kind of simple shit that you quite often hear US talking, you better believe they are viewed as a SELF HATING Jew, by the majority and treated as such. If they are too VOCAL in popping that junk, they might find themselves in some physical danger. They don't pussyfoot around like we do. Ask rap group PUblic Enemy or their Jewish music producer/record label owner Rick Rubin, who ALL got death threats from groups like the Jewish Defense League, back in the day because of a FACTUALLY correct comment, made by a group member, that didn't sit well with the Jewish community. Not only was PE in danger, but their Jewish benefactor was gonna get some too, if he didn't make the right decision, so don't try to sell me on this" Jews handle things the same way we do, bullshit". Too much evidence to the contrary.

Analyzing the thinking and motives of those who would attempt to hold u down is strategic and necessary, that is not the same as what NEGROES have a propensity for doing, or what was being done by some in this thread. Not even close.


I think thats what Neferkare means when he mentioned teaching our kids to be cultural critics.

No problem with the cultural critic thing. Big problem with "pro Black" advocate/leader/spokesperson dating/marrying non Black. Simple as.

PS the 'ovens' were only used to dispose of the bodies not kill jews.

I didn't SPECIFY what the ovens were used for, I said they were part of the FINAL SOLUTION, and they were. If you are planning to engage in mass killings/genocide, you would have to think about disposal of the bodies, no? That would have to be part of the masterplan, no? You wouldn't wait till you had millions of corpses piled up to start thinking about, hmmm, now what to do, what to do........

As to the helter skelter comments made about the Nation of Islam.
I'm not intrested in 'Islamic Studies'
It's not an african religon and was forced on african and africans. It has little benifit for africans as a whole so I don't understand why people seem to think that adapting what little african culture is left to an arabian culture(praticularly when these people are so resistant to europeans doing this!) would be a benifit to us and our movement in ANY way!

I don't care if you are interested in Islamic Studies, I'm not either. I was advising you to stop talking out of your ass about the Nation of Islam, Elijah Muhhamad, because it was obvious from your comments that you don't know what you are talking about. I didn't say that taking on someone else's religion is the OPTIMUM way for us to handle things, but if you ARE going to do that, at least be smart enough to ADAPT the shit to YOUR group and THEIR situation. Muhhamad was smart enough to do that AT LEAST(which sets him apart from most other Black religious leaders throughout the world who just wholesale swallow any religion that blows their way), and because of that the NOI has been a benefit to Black folks in the U.S. If they hadn't done anything but give us Malcolm, they'd be worth their weight in gold, but they have had tangible EFFECTS on many parts of the AFrican AMerican community throughout the years, which is why they tend to be well regarded, even if most don't subscribe to a lot of their tenets.

That's kind of anti pro african...don't you think?

Again, read above paragraph and stop projecting your issues/experience with Islam as practiced OUTSIDE the U.S. with what was/is practiced here. Totally different animal.

Either way, I have no intrest in NOI or orthodox islam, it's just another distraction for us!

That is your prerogative, but if you make untrue statements/characterizations about the NOI, I'll be inclined to correct you.


[/color]
[size="5"]So what he and you are saying in a long winded way is 'We don't have time to be arguing about crap...let's start moving forward!'' HHHmmm! That's the subject of all my posts really, It's funny how people will rant and rave and come off with all manner of militantcy but they eventually come back to the reality of the situation. WE DONT HAVE TIME FOR CR@P!

Having a discussion about whether a "pro Black" person who is married to/dating a non Black person, who is purporting to speak/lead/advocate for me, will be accepted by me is not "ARGUING ABOUT CRAP". It's fundamental, strategic and commonsensical. Furthermore, there is no argument. That's a done deal for me, what others do is of no concern to me. Now arguing about me or anyone else choosing to use the word NEGRO or CRACKER, or YT, on a message board DOES constitute, ARGUING ABOUT CRAP,LOL.

[],)

While Kujufu used various black politians as examples the actual title of the thread is '' a question: can you be pro Black and still be with a partner from another culture?'' So my posts are directed at the common person. I have little intrest in leaders because they have a bad habbit of getting killed or letting you down. No matter how go a leader, he can only work with the materials he has, and at this moment in time, those materials are all pulling in differnt directions. Any leader that could effect change under those circumstances should be headmaster of Hogworts!

Kunjufu mentioned politicians, and a large part of the thread centered around Martin Luther King, SPECIFICALLY. What everyday Black folks do in that regard is not as pertinent for a number of reasons. First of all, how would you even KNOW?. There are probably folks on this Board right now, hugged up with someone white,lol. (boy that would explain a lot), anyway, we have no way of knowing that, so we have to be talking about "pro Black" folks who we would be working with as part of some kind of organization, or who are leaders of organizations that we lend our support to, who have the ability to AFFECT us in some way. Not the RANDOM Black person we see on the subway train, or in the grocery store,lol.

Beyond that, as I said before, the MASSES of Black folks,(in America at least), don't struggle with this issue. It tends to be a given or go without saying. It's those "self proclaimed Pro Black and INtellectual types", who are going to usually be the problem, and as I said, my friend has a good theory about why that is. Actually, a well respected Board member, my brother, MIghty Mos Def, articulated a similar theory, at least a year ago, on another thread. I think they are both on to something.....


As for the sarcasm towards 'black interlectuals' made by some, if a persons religion is 'thug life' and they practise religiously I can totally understand their contempt for black interlectuals!
[/quote]

Thug life? Really? Is it that serious?LOL.

I don't have contempt for Black intellectuals, as I stated before, I can dwell in that realm. I just know it's limitations and blind spots. I can discuss any "intellectuals" of any race, break them down, critique them, highlight their strong points, and pick their weak points apart, be they Black: Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, WEB Dubois, or white: Descarte, John Stuart Mills, Nietchze,sp?, or Christopher Hitchens,(to bring it up to modern times for a moment). You know what they say about what happens when u ASS U ME,lol.

Gmahogany.
The lionshare of comments in this debate not only centered around Black leaders, but MLK, in particular, so where you get the idea that anyone was overly concerned with what regular,everyday Black folks do in this matter, as impacting on OUR agenda/struggle, is beyond me.So here's my question if you like, can you really state that you're race conscious, Race proud and then not be with someone of the same race?9

Kujufus comments were:-
Is it possible to be PRO BLACK and have a partner who is not BLACK?
[note to forum, this is not a bashing thread, nor an IR thread its a simple question about what is meant by race pride!!]
My view for what its worth that it is a total contradiction to say you're race proud, and then not be with some of your own race...am i wrong?

The fact that some may of mistook what he was asking, or that some may to wondered down other paths doesn't change the original question.

A friend of mine has a whole theory about why that is, and the TRUE underlying motivations of many so called "pro-Black" types. I'll get into that at another time, possibly.
Look forward to it!

I'm a she,

Sorry, I did ASSUME, you were male, hence the 'tude' of my post.

..who here is "bitching on about white people"?
Look around the forum.

You are ASSUMING that just because there are Black people who think that "pro Black" leaders/advocates ought to marry/date Black folks, that WE must be obsessed with white folks? Interesting twist of logic. We're obsessed with Crackers, not the so called "pro Black" people on a "pro Black" Board, who are distressed and disturbed that others don't share their predilection/preoccupation with dating/marrying/phucking white folks or advocating the dating/phucking/marrying of white folks,lol.)

Hhhhmmm, Intresting, but don't you think it would be more productive to be 'obsessed' with our situation? Obsessing over crackers, really isn't much help to us, unless to need to release some pent up pressure.

Once again, I'm always amused by Negroes who swear they are schooling the lowly, heathen Black masses when they are SO not.
Intresting way of looking at it.!

No one here is CONSTANTLY mentioning white people. To the extent that whites and other races are being mentioned, it probably has to do with the fact that the title of the thread is: Can U be Pro Black and have a White or non Black partner", or something like that. Makes it kind of difficult NOT to mention whites and other non Blacks,lol.

Again, Look around the forum.

Oooh, I'm a She, and no I'm not getting paid to say Negroes. I just think it's UTTERLY appropos in certain instances. The same way I think words like CRACKER and ******, are utterly appropos in certain instances. You got a problem with that? If so, I'll be sure and INCREASE my usage of the words in question,lol.

Sorry hun, the word 'negro' isn't my kryptonite!
Just found it strange that a african person would use it in any sense on a african forum. I cheaked and saw that you in the US. Obviously it is a common word over there but we dont hear it in the UK (unless its used by a few lost souls) because dispite the problems of today, most white people like their lives and wouldn't dream of ending it by using that word to refure to a black african, let alone a black african using it to refure to himself or someone else reguardless of the situation.

Please, be my guess, use it till your hearts content!

If you throw in people like Booker T. Washington. My point was, that to this certain ilk of NEGRO, it's conservative thinking, they feel compelled to allign themselves with the white Conservative RACIST agendaS, and come talk shit to the rest of us, like they discovered the wheel or something.

No we haven't discovered the wheel. When that was discovered, its value was instantly recognised and today we have the Chrysler Crossfire!

First of all, I don't use the term YT, so I don't know where you got that from. My white person word of choice is CRACKER, get it straight.

Ok, got it, calm down! lol.

don't use any of the words I use, because I think they are "revolutionary". I use them because again, I think they are UTTERLY appropos, in some instances. Beyond that, They succeed in getting certain NEGROES panties in a bunch, for what reason I do not know. So apparently they generate some kind of power/effect. Who knew? LOL.)

I explained above, 'negro' isn't a word that is in common useage in the uk. It doesn't generate any kind of power with me. Unless a non black person usese it, then that depends on my mood!

I'm just surprised that someone that someone who claims some level of consciousness would use it to discribe other people of the same race, but we are on differnt pages. I accept it is consistent with your beliefs. I will not mention it again! Honest!


I'm not racially insulting my own people. You haven't ever seen me in INSULT mode. The way you're having a hissy fit about words like NEGRO, I reckon you'd have a out and out nervous breakdown, if I REALLY took it there,lol.

So do you refer to your 'pals' as negros? OK!

I throw 'organic free range' insults myself when I am ready hunny, but I don't insult women, least of all on the net, I'll leave that to those who have a street mentality! So me and you will not be having any cross words! Just not my style!..sorry!


Again, I have no problem with it being mentioned(although I hardly think the people on this Board are the appropriate target audience, a little presumptous and preaching to the choir-esque, wouldn't you say?)

Well it's that same board where its supposed pro black conscious members call each other 'coon' 'negro' and '******'...so maybe this little choir isn't singing with much harmony and certainly are singing from the same hymn book!

Damb, did I just mention negro oops!

I respect them (NOI)to the fullest. The difference is, they don't CONDESCEND to Black folks and have their tongue up white people's behind, while doing it. UNLIke some other NEGROES who shall remain nameless.
No need for anonymity speak your mind!

I'm very much for unity, but I'm not for unity with people who don't share my priorities/agenda/core outlook/beliefs.

That's like saying I love africans, but only africans who think, look, walk and talk like me! Thats not unity, thats a gang!

I suppose the other members of this gang want the right to retain the right to call other africans 'coon' and 'negro'. You lot must be rather P1ssed at the movement to stop africans calling each other n1gger! Guess your little clique must think these people have their tongue up white people's behind too.

I don't give a damn if they are as Black as the street pavement. It's not necessary. There is no such thing as that kind of unity anyway.

I suppose that explains our lack of progress over the years. Everyone is too busy looking for some kind of hard hitting image..too many tribes and not enough kingdoms.

Our ancestors thought the same way, must be genetic or something! Oh well...

Groups of like minded people with the same interests/agenda get together and act, other folks come along and get on board when they see which way the wind is blowing. That's trueof everything from the AMerican Revolution to the Civil Right's Movement.
Not all of us wait for this 'wind of change' some of us set sail a while back but when you see which way the wind is blowing, you will be welcomed on board!

There are limits to the PRACTICAL APPLICATION of abstract thinking/theories. Of course that only matters if you're actually concerned with PRACTICAL application and results, which a lot of intellectuals are not.

I think the interlectual your thinking of, wears beige clothes, a bow tie and braces. That's not the type of interlectual the other poster was discribing. Chances are if you respect a black leader, he's an interllectual

You're right, there are no limits to abstract/ivory tower thinking, as long as it stays in the ivory tower. That's where some folks get it twisted.)

Interllect shouldn't be hiden away, or put out of reach.It's for anyone smart enough to want it!

It is the basis of all movements. You can't just say, Let's start a movement!'' You have to sit and thrash out what your aims are.

Ask Chancellor Williams, why did he bother to write the book, you will get the answer.

I think some of you saw the word and jumped o conclusions about its definition!

If that is so, than you should not have taken my comments as being directed towards you. Who the cap fits.......

That 'cap' looks like I'm wearing a thimble on ma head! I havent a clue who your posts were aimed at you wrote ''Just Say No...... I make a GENERAL response, covering points made by several people....,''

The fact that part of you post mentioned Islam indicated that I was one of the 'several' your rather general post was aimed at. As we clearly have totally different out looks, pretty much anything that I wrote could of been interpreted in all manner of ways.

It's better to quote and name people then there is no confusion!

Nope, I disagree. There is not always a good reason to advocate for the Devil. No sane,self respecting Jewish person should ever be saying: "Well, Hitler had a point",lol.

No one said anything that approched an equivilent to the 'shitler example you used! I never said one can play devils advocat in all circumstances either!

Playing devils advocat is a tool to strengthen your ideas and to help you to find weak points in your beliefs and defend your argument against possible attack from the opposition. You pre-empt what arguments they may throw at you.

It's not saying 'I agree with so and so, that's just......... agreeing with so and so!

I don't have to check out Jewish sites. I am quite familiar with Jews and how they do, and it doesn't REMOTELY resemble what Negroes do, ESPECIALLY in reference to their enemies and what was done to them. If you find a few talking the same kind of simple shit that you quite often hear US talking,
I don't remeber saying we were like jews, I said ever other race plays some form of devils advocat in some instances and use jews as an example, hardly the same thing is it!

They don't pussyfoot around like we do. Ask rap group PUblic Enemy or their Jewish music producer/record label owner Rick Rubin, who ALL got death threats from groups like the Jewish Defense League, back in the day because of a FACTUALLY correct comment, made by a group member, that didn't sit well with the Jewish community. Not only was PE in danger, but their Jewish benefactor was gonna get some too, if he didn't make the right decision, so don't try to sell me on this" Jews handle things the same way we do, bullshit". Too much evidence to the contrary.)

Jewish benefactor! Jewish benefactor! And just WHOM exactly was he benifiting?
Some jew manager 'pulls the stings' of a pro black group, and you call him a benifactor?

Do you think this manager had a concern about us or do you think he saw $$$ and new that violence sells, slack lyrics and dropping a bit of pro blackness in a rap group will cater to the pro black section of the comunity that addicted to rap?

Damb, that JEDI MIND TRICK really is powerful!...
ul!


Analyzing the thinking and motives of those who would attempt to hold u down is strategic and necessary, that is not the same as what NEGROES have a propensity for doing, or what was being done by some in this thread. Not even close.

Any what do 'they' have a propensity for doing?

No problem with the cultural critic thing. Big problem with "pro Black" advocate/leader/spokesperson dating/marrying non Black. Simple as.
Cool, glad to hear it!

I don't care if you are interested in Islamic Studies, I'm not either. I was advising you to stop talking out of your ass about the Nation of Islam, Elijah Muhhamad, because it was obvious from your comments that you don't know what you are talking about. I didn't say that taking on someone else's religion is the OPTIMUM way for us to handle things, but if you ARE going to do that, at least be smart enough to ADAPT the shit to YOUR group...)

Indeed takin on someone else religion is definatley not ''the OPTIMUM way for us to handle things'' by any stretch of imagination!

If your that smart(read they)....why take up a coolie religion in the first place? If you have a problems with white people and your english name, why change it to an arab one? Why adopt arab customs. Why put yourself in a position where part of you focus is on black africans and part of it is on your muslim brothers around the globe? Why learn arabic? Why go to an arab country?

All valid questions, I don't see how you can say I am talkin out my ass! Oh I forgot, arabs aren't white so it's all cool....right?
Can you point out any of the changes that they made,that could not of been made without the coolie arab junk?

I just seems the africans only really rise up when it under some foreign banner, no matter how much black paint is slapped all over it!

P.S I did actually state that NOI was the better of the two.


Again, read above paragraph and stop projecting your issues/experience with Islam as practiced OUTSIDE the U.S. with what was/is practiced here. Totally different animal.'
Yes it is a diffent animal, it's an animal born of arab parents!

That is your prerogative, but if you make untrue statements/characterizations about the NOI, I'll be inclined to correct you.
Please refresh my memory and be ''inclined to correct me,'' what ''untrue statements/characterizations'' did I make about the NOI?

Now arguing about me or anyone else choosing to use the word NEGRO or CRACKER, or YT, on a message board DOES constitute, ARGUING ABOUT CRAP,LOL.
Taking into account some of your beliefs...I can understand that!

Thug life? Really? Is it that serious?LOL.

Yep, really and serious too! lol.

I don't have contempt for Black intellectuals, as I stated before, I can dwell in that realm. I just know it's limitations and blind spots. I can discuss any "intellectuals" of any race, break them down, critique them, highlight their strong points, and pick their weak points apart, be they Black: Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, WEB Dubois, or white: Descarte, John Stuart Mills, Nietchze,sp?, or Christopher Hitchens,(to bring it up to modern times for a moment).

If you can do all that and do it accuratly,then whether you like it are not, your an interllectual in the sense that it was meant!
Good on you!

You know what they say about what happens when u ASS U ME,lol.

Is it that you make an ASS out of U and ME???

G,

I have a few concerns about your most recent posts.

Gmahogany wrote (post #257):
You are ASSUMING that just because there are Black people who think that "pro Black" leaders/advocates ought to marry/date Black folks, that WE must be obsessed with white folks? Interesting twist of logic. We're obsessed with Crackers, not the so called "pro Black" people on a "pro Black" Board, who are distressed and disturbed that others don't share their predilection/preoccupation with dating/marrying/phucking white folks or advocating the dating/phucking/marrying of white folks,lol.

1) The manner in which you have read the writing of the “Intellectuals” is in error
2) You have lodged accusation after accusation but have failed to support any of it.
3) Your false assumptions have ruined the substantive integrity of this thread.

Really, unless it is your intent to sabotage the flow and conclusions of this thread, please clear up your mistakes, stand down and/or shut the @#*% up! If you must attack, please use quotes from my posts. No more free-wheeling character attacks without supporting documentation.

Gmahogany wrote (#257):
Once again, I'm always amused by Negroes who swear they are schooling the lowly, heathen Black masses when they are SO not. No one here is CONSTANTLY mentioning white people. To the extent that whites and other races are being mentioned, it probably has to do with the fact that the title of the thread is: Can U be Pro Black and have a White or non Black partner", or something like that. Makes it kind of difficult NOT to mention whites and other non Blacks,lol.

The original questions was/is: Can you be pro black and be with a partner from another race? You read the original question wrong and inserted white people, "crackers," whatever, on your own. In fact, if we conducted a word search of all of the posters in this thread, we would most like stumble upon at least one very startling fact, the person who mentions white folks the most is you.


Gmahogany wrote (#258):
No problem with the cultural critic thing. Big problem with "pro Black" advocate/leader/spokesperson dating/marrying non Black.

Show me where this occurred in this thread. One simple quote will do. Good luck!


Holla!

Why All the Fighting? Where did we go wrong?Generally, when a group of people sit around a table to discuss sensitive issues there is a high chance that the record of who said what, and what exactly was said, will be compromised because nothing is being recorded and because people just plain forget. Naturally, you would expect, in a forum such as this, where every word is recorded for posterity and accessible for every user, that there would be little room for confusion but this is not the case. The real issues and points of this thread have been lost in a sea of reactionary thinking and muddled debates.

This is due, in no small measure; to the way this thread is constructed. This thread poses four main problems for debate:

1) Linear Structure of Threads Don’t Facilitate Debate
This thread is linear, chronological and only enables the viewer to see one, or maybe two responses, at one time. This limitation is not unique to the BN Village. The problem is that very few people will ever go back to compare the most recent responders critique with text of the post being responded to. Consequently, unscrupulous posters can easily take comments out of context. When you say something that they think is a contradiction or a weak spot, they will quote you, when they prefer to just roast your ass, quotes aren’t necessary, as they will imply that you said all sorts of ill things.

2) Too Much Temptation to have “Last Word”
The linear nature of threads means that clever posters will quickly see the value of having the last word. I don’t know about you, but I have observed that, whenever people are hell-bent on getting in the last word, the quality of the discussion is always just two steps away from a sophisticated form of “F-ck You!” And, since this thread, “Can you be pro black and be with a partner from another race?,” has been at the top of the Village Square list, off and on since July 7, stage hungry posters will not hesitate to tell you where you can stick it, in classic ghetto-fabulous form. And, because of the structure of this thread they can influence any newcomer who does not have time to read the history.

3) No Accountability When Mistakes Are Made
If a poster commits the error of writing some really embarrassing shite, you know (the idea that was not thoroughly thought through and thus, either makes no sense or makes the poster sound like an idiot), they rarely, if ever, acknowledge the mistake and just keep on moving/writing like it never happened. If another poster pounces upon the contradiction, the original poster will simply say that they were misunderstood or that the responder is an Uncle Tom, Sellout, or collaborator with YT

4) Some Posters Use Threads as Therapy
You may get the absolutely worse kind of poster, the one who never really reads your posts, or anyone else’s for that matter; they just enjoy doggin’ yo ass out, because they just don’t have anything else in life to give them pleasure.

Jerry Springer Would be Envious
These forums are open to but not designed for intellectual discussion. It is a commentary on our condition in the world when our most educated are averse to intellectual discussion. You may not consider your self to be a person of great education, but if you have computer access, you are more affluent than most in the African Diaspora. Still, our best and brightest participate in a discussion that has all the trappings of broke-ass Jerry Springer episode entitled, “Revolutionary Wannabes and the Drama that Surrounds Them.”

Peace!

Setting the Record Straight
Let there be no confusion about my position, all of my inquiries have pratical value as I am here to formulate solutions for my people. Let’s review, my first post in this thread is dated July 17. Since then, I have advanced the following ideas:

1) Dating/Marrying Black Exclusively Has No Proven Practical Value
(please see Thread Page 7, Post #158)
Dating/marrying Black means nothing because it has no practical connection to a plan that will liberate Africans world-wide. Absent any value for the plan, it is nice, preferred and desirable but, it operates outside the realm of the plan, and therefore, it has little impact on the “cause” as the “cause” must invariably be connected to some kind of plan.

But this is not really why the notion of dating/marrying exclusively Black has no real measurable value, the real reason is that, are you sitting down? . . . THERE IS NO PLAN!

2) Dating/Marrying Black is a Tactic without a Strategy
(please see Thread Page 8, Post #192)
The tactician is great at executing tactics. For example, if you instruct him or her to paint a certain part of a house or lay some brick in the foundation, he or she will do an excellent job. They are tacticians and they take special assignments seriously and perform the task well.

The strategists, on the other hand, may or may not be good at executing individual tasks. His or her specialty is process and order of operations. She is gifted at developing the order that a host of important tactics will be performed. She is unapologetically a Big Picture person. The tacticians rely upon her, the strategist, to advise them on where to begin and how to proceed. Without her, the tacticians could perform their tactics well but they can never build a house well.

3) The Black Obsession With Image & Posing May be Due Insecurity
(please see Thread Page 9, Post #212)
For example, let’s say that a chicken is adopted by a family of ducks. The ducks convince the chicken that he and all of his chicken-ness are inferior and ugly and that he is deserving of poor treatment because he was a chicken. Can the chicken ever truly love his unique chicken-ness when the standard he uses to evaluate himself is grounded in duck-ness. It seems that, until the chicken were fully liberated from Duck-land that he might be a little insecure and defensive.

4) Discussing the Above Points is a Worthy Endeavor but May Be More Appealing to Intellectuals:
(please see Thread page 10, Post #231)
It should be noted, however, that the questions outlined above were not the mad ravings of self-hating Negroes craving white flesh but, rather, the natural thought patterns of the INTELLECTUAL. Don’t be alarmed readers; to designate one’s self an “intellectual” is not what you think. It is not a self-aggrandizing pat-on-the-back indicative of an overblown sense of mental self; rather, it is a classification of thinkers who enjoy exploring multiple sides of issues, even if their hypothetical streams of thought run contrary to their own personal beliefs.

***************

For these above thoughts I am castigated? For these ideas I am accused of “lecturing us about how we should be more accepting of other people, read white people”?

Not one of my posts gives whites folks the time of day needed to blink. Moreover, I don’t know what posts in this thread encourage us to be nicer to YT or to date white women or anything like that. I am still scratching my head about where this all got started.

Please deliver me from my ignorance! Be specific, use examples and by all means, quote the one whom you believe set it off.

Holla!

RLB wrote:
There are no limits to abstact thinking, The mind is a muscle and benifits from exercise. The futher you stretch it, the more flexable it becomes.


Black Intellectuals Cannot Afford 2B Impractical
Let’s not be so quick to concede that our thinking, that is also quite limited by the label of “Intellectual” thinking, is abstract. On the contrary, our ideas are quite practical. Our only difference is that we have the audacity to see beyond our current circumstances. Our hypothetical scenarios are not bedtime stories or the fantasies of a complicated board game, but the realistic plans of a people struggling to achieve change. We are the ones who think outside of boxes and we have always been punished for such.

The idea that thinkers will somehow hurt the “cause” is as ridiculous as the argument that the introduction of the Spinning Wheel for weaving garments of clothing was somehow a manifestation of Satan at the end of the 19th century. The reaction to intellectualism in this thread can be compared to a Nun’s bitter reaction to the child who keeps asking, “How do we know there really is a God?”

This kind of anti-intellectual, shut-the-f-ck-up and follow the crowd, thinking is self-destructive and defeatist. It is responsible for the lack of change not the advancement of positive change. It’s the source stagnation not evolution, of supporting the status quo; not challenging it. The very essence of existing in this condition makes us guilty of contributing to our own demise. It is ridiculous! No, I mean really ridiculous! Not the kind of “ridiculous” that a variety of posters try to generate when they are hell-bent on discrediting you and they sarcastically and condescendingly declare that your point is so absurd that it is funny, and kind of “ridiculous,” but the real kind. A kind that is not meant to mock, or clown or insult but to say, “What the hell is going on here? We are in trouble!”

The World is Crumbling and No One Cares
You can say almost anything in this thread and not alarm anyone. You could arrogantly exclaim that “it’s the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine,” and while it would be tossed around and debated, at the end of the day, it will be just another post in a long thread. Inversely, you could outline a master plan for the absolute liberation for our people, complete with timelines and contingency plans, and some idiot on this thread could say it was “a trap or a conspiracy of the white man”, and the whole idea could be squashed, just like that. Two to three posts later, after the vicious and threatened had an opportunity to insert a few good “mock & shock” posts, the original poster would be equivalent of the Black Judas.

Ideas and solutions pass through this entire forum like flies following a hot Chocolate Fudge Cake but very few people here seem concerned about catching them.

We are all in this forum for different reasons. I, for one, am here for idea formulation and to flesh out ideas in pursuit of a solution. Read my posts, I have always been after one thing and one thing only—Liberation. If you the reader are not here for a solution you might be here for other reasons, like . . . err . . . umh, therapy. Yeah, let’s just keep it real. For some, being anonymously engaged in discussion about life, hardships, hypotheticals, etc. serves as a form of therapeutic conversation. And, I think its fair to say that some of us are more interested in the therapeutic aspects of this discussion than others.

Allow me to demonstrate the role of the intellectual.

The Role of the Black Intellectual on a Deserted Island
The inquiry of the Black intellectual is not to say to the castaways on the deserted island, “What if our rescue involved transporter beams or worm holes?” (unless, of course, he really had some scientific data on that shite); but rather, to formulate and to consider all possible outcomes of the various practical means of escape, such as:
1) Do we have a radio and what could if do for our condition?
2) Do we have fresh water? Etc.
3) Do we have shelter? Etc.
4) Where will we locate latrine, etc.
5) Can we build a boat? Etc.

Now, no one can disagree that the above steps are practical and down-to-earth but let’s altar the situation slightly.

What "If" We Were On A Deserted Island?
What if I were to now propose that we just imagine, what we would do “if” we were stranded on a deserted island? Or, perhaps more timely for America, “what would you do if your vehicle crashed into a body of water?” Yes, it is a purely hypothetical scenario but, isn’t it a worthy consideration since there exists a real possibility, although some may argue small, that you could end up in a body of water and that you should know what to do in this event.

What Potential Plans Will Meet Our Needs?
From here, I can get even more hypothetical and ask, “what kinds of curricula will mentally and culturally nourish the children of the Contentint and of the Diaspora and what might it look like?” While this question is purely hypothetical, the intellectual/practical inquiry will have immensely practical results.

Nothing in the above outline can hardly be considered abstract and, after the proper due diligence, all of the ideas will culminate into real plans with real steps that will transcend the boundaries of thinking to become action.

We have been known by many names: prophet, soothsayer, priest, oracle, orisha, prognosticator and even revolutionary. But, as I have said before, we are always hated.

Holla!

This thread was a pleasure to participate in. Kunjufu, thank you for the question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neferkare Setting the Record Straight Let there be no confusion about my position, all of my inquiries have pratical value as I am here to formulate solutions for my people. Let’s review, my first post in this thread is dated July 17. Since then, I have advanced the following ideas: 1) Dating/Marrying Black Exclusively Has No Proven Practical Value (please see Thread Page 7, Post #158) Dating/marrying Black means nothing because it has no practical connection to a plan that will liberate Africans world-wide. Absent any value for the plan, it is nice, preferred and desirable but, it operates outside the realm of the plan, and therefore, it has little impact on the “cause” as the “cause” must invariably be connected to some kind of plan. But this is not really why the notion of dating/marrying exclusively Black has no real measurable value, the real reason is that, are you sitting down? . . . THERE IS NO PLAN! 2) Dating/Marrying Black is a Tactic without a Strategy (please see Thread Page 8, Post #192) The tactician is great at executing tactics. For example, if you instruct him or her to paint a certain part of a house or lay some brick in the foundation, he or she will do an excellent job. They are tacticians and they take special assignments seriously and perform the task well. The strategists, on the other hand, may or may not be good at executing individual tasks. His or her specialty is process and order of operations. She is gifted at developing the order that a host of important tactics will be performed. She is unapologetically a Big Picture person. The tacticians rely upon her, the strategist, to advise them on where to begin and how to proceed. Without her, the tacticians could perform their tactics well but they can never build a house well. 3) The Black Obsession With Image & Posing May be Due Insecurity (please see Thread Page 9, Post #212) For example, let’s say that a chicken is adopted by a family of ducks. The ducks convince the chicken that he and all of his chicken-ness are inferior and ugly and that he is deserving of poor treatment because he was a chicken. Can the chicken ever truly love his unique chicken-ness when the standard he uses to evaluate himself is grounded in duck-ness. It seems that, until the chicken were fully liberated from Duck-land that he might be a little insecure and defensive. 4) Discussing the Above Points is a Worthy Endeavor but May Be More Appealing to Intellectuals: (please see Thread page 10, Post #231) It should be noted, however, that the questions outlined above were not the mad ravings of self-hating Negroes craving white flesh but, rather, the natural thought patterns of the INTELLECTUAL. Don’t be alarmed readers; to designate one’s self an “intellectual” is not what you think. It is not a self-aggrandizing pat-on-the-back indicative of an overblown sense of mental self; rather, it is a classification of thinkers who enjoy exploring multiple sides of issues, even if their hypothetical streams of thought run contrary to their own personal beliefs. *************** For these above thoughts I am castigated? For these ideas I am accused of “lecturing us about how we should be more accepting of other people, read white people”? Not one of my posts gives whites folks the time of day needed to blink. Moreover, I don’t know what posts in this thread encourage us to be nicer to YT or to date white women or anything like that. I am still scratching my head about where this all got started. Please deliver me from my ignorance! Be specific, use examples and by all means, quote the one whom you believe set it off. Holla!

Despite your large font which can only be described as superfluous in it's being, I do agree with some things you have said, just not all.

1. You say dating/marrying "black" has no proven practical value. I should hope you are not suggesting that this then means one has reason to go and be with any other group, because that wouldn't be very intellectual of you. There is no proven practical value in Africans marrying exclusively within our own group but there is also no proven practical value in dating/marrying outside of it. There is however proven downsides to marrying outside of it where I have seen none to suggest that dating/marrying exclusively African has any downsides. If you're going to be overly intellectual about it I don't see how you're going to prove the benefits of any group having relationships within itself or without. I don't see that as necessary and you would just be flexing intellectual muscles for aesthetic purposes if you tried. For me the fact that mixing en masse has always been a precursor to a massive downfall in African civilisations historically is enough for me and I consider myself to be at least intellectual in my acquisition of knowledge. I guess I would have to understand what you consider to be proof of practicality.

And the notion that there has to be a plan rings alarm bells for me. You sound like a platonic intellectual rather than an African ("black") one. Interesting. I hope you will explain what you consider to be proof of practicality and also who you think will be the one who will create this plan you think we need. Just so you know, speaking in your terms, there is no proof of practicality in the belief that we need "a" plan IMO.

2. Where do you get the idea that dating/marrying black is a tactic at all? I would like to know that. 90% of the world's population dates and marries within their own ethnic grouping. The numbers were higher further in the past. It could be said that the higher number of people dating and marrying outside of their ethnic group is as a result of new age ideology that is going against natural desire (evidenced by mass mixing happening within places that seek "multiculturalism"). This suggests that it is not practical or a tactic but a natural human desire to be with someone of your own ethnic group. I needn't address your analogy as I think what I wrote above suggests I believe your assumptions to be wrong and therefore your conclusions in this case. May I also ask for the proof of the practicality in Africans banding together under strategists.

3. Africans have always taken care of their image, long before non Africans turned up (see Merira Kwesi, the destruction of black civilisation viewed through fashion). I agree that there is an insecurity due to the upbringings many of us have but I would put to you this; if as you say the chicken can never take pride in it's chicken-ness due to the mode of evaluation being grounded in duck-ness, would you say that your mode of intellectualising the African struggle is devoid of all duck-ness? Do you think you have come to a rational conclusion based on the necessities, and complexities found within chicken-ness alone? I ask because I believe your method to be solely rooted in duck-ness rather than chicken-ness.

4. I believe your statement "the natural thought patterns of the INTELLECTUAL" to be wholly incorrect. One learns to be an intellectual and are not born into it. Although there may be evidence to suggest there is a natural affinity towards being an intellectual, that state cannot be reached without learning and learning something makes calling it natural completely contradictory (I hope you understand what I mean by that)

I don't care what beef you have with other posters and I am not trying to create any of my own, I just wanted to have this discussion as most of the conjecture and supposition has left along with the posters who posted it and this is now becoming an interesting conversation to me.

PS when you say things like "don't worry readers, it's not what you think" it is annoying in that it presumes that people would come to that conclusion based on your words and thus becomes a statement, not unlike one a person who is going for a "self-aggrandizing pat-on-the-back indicative of an overblown sense of mental self" would make and this could be the reason you recieve all of those labels. But that's just me.

Go "White" woman go!!! Take him for every last cent!

This was so beautiful. So complete. And so brilliant.



There are some "intellectuals" around here and Africans had better take note of them.

"Until Africa can stand on its own, Africans everywhere will never be able to have any pride".

Incognito

TheDogon

RLB has consistently labeled everyday African methods or traditional African disciplines as being anti-intellectual. G and I believe that to be a lie. And one of the primary reasons for the divide.

WTF!!!!!!!!

The worst thing about crack.......ANYONE CAN AFFORD IT!
Now put the crack pipe down...and step away from the monitor!

Where the fcuk did that come from? Dont think you can hide shite like that in a body of text.

1) What the hell is your definition of an african discipline?

2) Where the hell have I labled african disciplines as being anti-intellectual?

Site sources and quotes!

i'm pretty sure, this is an attempt to lure some type of flaming response from me.

TheDogon
we are screaming at each other. Being an "intellectual" for me isn't just about being rational and reasonable. It is also about being emotional and spiritual

I haven't respned to anyone by ''screaming'', though I could of. So don't try to point any 'powder stained' fingers at me, I ain't not buying it.

My response have been vary 'measured' considering the attempts a gouding me, so save your cr@p for those that can't see what you up to!

I understand that my post upset certain 'types' of people, (the rap/hip hop crowd or the bomber jacket muslims), anyone that tries to pass that nonsense off as being african disciplines is full of it AND don't try to hide calling each other 'negro' behind ''being emotional and spiritual'' it is self distructive and IT IS WRONG, FULL STOP!!

I'm here to speak my mind, not cater to people who have an image' to live up to, so 'suck it up' and and get used to it!

Very. . ."intellectual" of you.

Well, let us begin with your statement about Malcolm.

Macolme X made it acceptable for people to be black muslims and be consider pro black, but he was a member of NOI which is a black supremacist group, but what about other muslims who arent NOI?

Er. . .Malcolm was not a "Black" supremacist. Nor was the NOI a "Black" supremacist organization.


There is no racial group upon this earth, that I have had more arguments with than my own, more specifically, with yardies and wannabe gangsters. It isn't even as if I go out of my way to interact with theThey hear your accent and think that gives them a free pass to try to take the piss.

I feel for you. My "intellectual" brother.

TheDogon
Very. . ."intellectual" of you.


Ahhhh! isn't that sweet! Your using a european verson of the word.

First off, your definiton of intellectual isn't mine.Your obviously attachting some sort of 'decorum' to the word. To me, intellectuall, doesnt mean 'sweetness and light and allowing @sswipes (like you) try to take the p1ss.

So many people hate us that to adopt that kind of 'passive' attitude mean forever being insulted and phisically abused. At no point should we become so 'intellectual' that we lose our b@lls and our ablitly to defend ourselves and each other and at no point have I EVER said anything of the sort.

We must allways be ready to 'fight' in every sense of the word, so on that note....... eat Shite!

My definiton of intellectual, is soley concerned with mental ability to see beyond the surface, to weigh up pros and cons of a point, to play devils advocate, to analyse aguments in depth and reading the situation around you, see that which few other see or realise and acting on it. It has noting to do with being passive, polite, spelling, grammer or speaking like you have plumbs in you mouth. so suff that cr@p up you butt!

Your comment above implys that I should of reponded to you in a more 'restrained and polite way', Why should I restain myself when you blatantly talk shite and are gagging to get a response from me?

.Macolme X made it acceptable for people to be black muslims and be consider pro black, but he was a member of NOI which is a black supremacist group, but what about other muslims who arent NOI?
Er. . .Malcolm was not a "Black" supremacist. Nor was the NOI a "Black" supremacist organization.

OH, How dare I attack such a 'black dicipline'!

Nope, Nation of Islam IS a black/african supremacist organization, whatever you definition is.

Maybe you need to look up their beliefs. I haven't got too much of a problem with them if they are helping afican people, but that doesn't mean I will stand silent on points that I don't agree with...which happens to be the WHOLE islam thing!

Maclome X was a member of NOI so at one point, I'll have to assume he agreed with most of what they belived! Simple really.

TheDogon

{QUOTE RLB
There is no racial group upon this earth, that I have had more arguments with than my own, more specifically, with yardies and wannabe gangsters. It isn't even as if I go out of my way to interact with theThey hear your accent and think that gives them a free pass to try to take the piss.}

TheDogon
I feel for you. My "intellectual" brother.


Nah, your no brother of mine, my mother raise no idiots. Sort your cr@p out and grow a little, then I'll be proud to call you borther.

What the fcuk does that quote have to do with anything??? All that means is that the area I grew up in has an exceptionally high number of drug up fools that have NO selfrespect. What....you expect me to get on with people who p1ss and shite up the neighbourhood, just because they are black? Really? DONT THINK SO! My kid have to live there too!

Most of my friends think it better to either keep quite around these losers or they think it better to pretend to be one of them and 'blend in'. I don't, If a man come off with cr@p to me, I see now reasone why I should not agute with hime.since when has standing your ground and not taking shite been a crime?:

I don't tolerate cr@p from people, least of all just because of their colour! Why should I respect anyone that doesn't respect themselves. What point were you trying to make with this?

Seriously, you chat some bollox!

Honestly, is this all you have? For the above quotes, you accuse me of ''consistently labeled everyday African methods or traditional African disciplines as being anti-intellectual.''

Mr Dogon, dont try to create any 'issue' between me and you, just for the sheer hell of it. Your comments are as 'weak @ssed' as the quotes you used. You still have yet to give me the examples that supports your accusations.

What you have given thus far, is just random comments that I have posted that have little to do with anything.

This is what happens when you are a little too 'militant' and eager for argument and not 'intellectual' enough to understand the spirit of what I have posted.

Dont waste my time for the hell of it!

I am aware that by respnding to your nonsense, every wannabe 'millitant' may decide to 'earn his stripes' by diving in to you defence, but you posted such quality cr@p, I couldnt ignor it!

Ah. . .so you have invented a defintion that you and everyone else that agrees with you are "intellectual". I see.

You defintion? Ah. . .the "intellectual" is rolling now. Let's take a look at "my" definition. It involves folks who believe in the supremacy of a racial group.

Unfortunately, the NOI does not work in this context. The NOI, like almost every other "Black" organization only exists in response to "White" supremacy. You call me "European" in my approach, yet you are the one who claims "we" must think in the abstract. Only in the abstract can one claim "Blacks" can be racist. That they are motivated by a need to be superior to other groups in their prejudice or discrimination. But when one adds "context" and understand the definition of practicality, then one dispenses with such foolishness. African philosophies don't deal in abstracts, they deal in intuitive, empathic ways of communication and thinking.





There is no racial group upon this earth, that I have had more arguments with than my own, more specifically, with yardies and wannabe gangsters. It isn't even as if I go out of my way to interact with theThey hear your accent and think that gives them a free pass to try to take the piss.}

TheDogon
I feel for you. My "intellectual" brother.

But evidently she did raise one who didn't understand grammar rules.

I know my brother. You are exceptional. You are that "special" negro. Like those folks who are not only rich. . .but n!gger rich. I am happy that you rejected the belief system of all those drugged up fools.


I know I am the same way. When I see crap and nonsense, I confront it. Hence, our confrontation.

What more do I need? You have already claimed that you are Super African. You leap housing projects in a single bound. You know what is intellectual and what is not. . .because. . .because. . .

Well, I am sure you will get to your "credentials" in a minute.

For an intellectual, you sure do post a lot of meaningless crap. Why repeat yourself?

It's like you are insane or something.

Thiis has to be the most embarrasing attempt at a ''face saving'' post EVER aswell as the biggest pile of steaming SHITE I have read on this board....and I have read a lot.

You made an acusation and THIS is your defense of it??

The only points worth responding too are:-

TheDogon Ah. . .so you have invented a defintion that you and everyone else that agrees with you are "intellectual". I see.

Yes I have invented a definiton. as to whether everone else agree...I could give a toss!

Neferkare has his own definiton of interllectual. Look around abit, you will see a number of differnt definitons for 'pro black' too! If you smart enough, you may be able to come up with a few of your own!


TheDogon
Unfortunately, the NOI does not work in this context. The NOI, like almost every other "Black" organization only exists in response to "White" supremacy. You call me "European" in my approach, yet you are the one who claims "we" must think in the abstract. Only in the abstract can one claim "Blacks" can be racist. That they are motivated by a need to be superior to other groups in their prejudice or discrimination. But when one adds "context" and understand the definition of practicality, then one dispenses with such foolishness. African philosophies don't deal in abstracts, they deal in intuitive, empathic ways of communication and thinking.

If you want to think that NOI is an anti-colonial, anti-imperial anti-european capitalistic domination group, that's fine by me. Like I said, I have little problem with the NOI pro black works, I just wonder why under Islam. I have few problems with black supremacy, every other group has it's hardliners.

The idea that africans are incapable of being racist is total 'bull' and offensive. ''Oh those poor blacks, they are incapable of hating another race simply because they (africans) are a simple people too stupid to have the same emotions as other races plus they are at the bottom of the pile and so could only ever be 'picked on' by all the other races on the face of the earth! Those poor,poor africans''

'Bolloxs!

That kind of thinking is out of date.IMO

It was belive that to truly be 'racist' you had to be in a position of power, (whether personal or social) and that black people had no power, so they couldn't be racist only reactonary...things have changed a little since then.

I am totally capable of hating other races, even races that had nothing to do with slavery. Being african doesn't prevent me from forming unfounded sterio-typical views of other races as a group nor does it prevent me from acting on them.

Saying africans can not be racist is 'over intellectualization' and one that makes us 'embrace' being poor 'downtrodden victims' and percieve everyone else as 'powerful abusers' which would explain the constant whining going on here.

TheDogon
.....yet you are the one who claims "we" must think in the abstract. Only in the abstract can one claim "Blacks" can be racist

African philosophies don't deal in abstracts, they deal in intuitive, empathic ways of communication and thinking


WTFf??? (please PLEASE stop....my jaw is starting to hurt now Dogon)

You say abstact like it's a dirty word!

I remeber reading another post by someone else who seemed to have to same 'disgust' at the word. Since when have we had this fear of abstact thought?

Do you actually know what abstact thinking is?
Do you realise what you are REALLY saying when you say 'we don't think abstactly but intuitively'?

I think you and your 'crowd' have you own definiton of 'abstact' if not then I cant help but think that you mistake 'abstact' for 'theoretical' (an other 'old' african ability)! every man made item you see around you began as an abstact thought. Ask any craftsman, and arttist, do they have an idea of what they want to create....and the vast majourity would tell you 'Yes'.

If you wanted to build a house, you would need a vage idea of what it would look like and it purpose. You would need to know the tools you would need and what materials and man power would be require. You would need to know the best place to situate you home, probably not on lions 'hunting ground'. You have even stated building your house yet, but you have thought of all of this.

Right now, this vary process ,'reading, typing, understanding is 'abstract'!

If I type the word 'SPIDER', there is no spider on the screen. the letters do not create a picture of a spider, but yet you know which creature I am drawing refference to. A little image of some type of spider suddenly popped into your mind! How did that happen?

From words, to memory, to images, to understanding......BEHOLD..........ABSTACT THOUGHT!

If our philosophier didn't [color="Red"]''deal in abstracts''[/COLOR] and philosophiers are our greatest thinkers)...then who the hell did? (continued...........)